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Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 07:55
by Ricky_
Vitali would pummel Joshua to a standstill. Mismatch.
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 08:19
by Ricky_
Tuan_Jim wrote:
Sam Peter, down thrice vs McCline, down vs Wlad, not a single KD by Vitali.
What does it matter, really? I don't think Sam Peter laid a glove on him and retired on his stool with both eyes just about shut. Shannon Briggs took a similar relentless beating for 12 rounds and spent some time in intensive care following the fight.
He didn't knock guys clean out of the ring because he rarely put much forward momentum into his shots, he had enough power to punch opponents to a stand-still while leaning backwards.
Vitali Klitchko in 47 fights barely even lost a round.
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 08:20
by Tanzio
The avenger of Siamese Klit fame would have been a great challenge for Joshua but Wlad's tag team partner is a Ukrainian politician now. AJ would win a UD if not punch Vitali's face clean off.
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 08:30
by Tuan_Jim
Ricky_ wrote:Tuan_Jim wrote:
Sam Peter, down thrice vs McCline, down vs Wlad, not a single KD by Vitali.
What does it matter, really? I don't think Sam Peter laid a glove on him and retired on his stool with both eyes just about shut. Shannon Briggs took a similar relentless beating for 12 rounds and spent some time in intensive care following the fight.
He didn't knock guys clean out of the ring because he rarely put much forward momentum into his shots, he had enough power to punch opponents to a stand-still while leaning backwards.
Vitali Klitchko in 47 fights barely even lost a round.
It matters when people are pointing to his KO ratio and claiming him to be one of the hardest punchers ever. The evidence refutes it.
The list of heavyweights who would barely lose a round against Vitali Klitschko's 47 opponents is a very long one. How bad do you have to be to lose rounds to Shannon Briggs and Larry Donald? When Corrie Sanders is your best win, it speaks volumes.
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 08:33
by SteveDow
The Vitali who beat Chisora would have massacred AJ let alone the one who was at his peak in the early to mid 2000s.
Let's face it, AJ was exposed on Saturday as someone who isn't a good boxer, has questionable stamina and can be badly hurt. Yes, he has power but Vitali had one of the best chins I've ever seen on a heavyweight. Never remotely close to ever being stopped. Can't see any way AJ could win the fight.
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 08:39
by Ezzard
In his day I'd expect Vitali to meat mallet AJ into schnitzel. But there would be no one punch KO.
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 08:48
by Loki
Vitali by KO. He's much tougher than Joshua and easily outboxes him.
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 08:52
by stujones
Vitali was the "fighter" of the two definately, but Wlad was much better technically.
In the equally mythical Vitali vs Wlad fight... I'd go for Wlad from the Emmual Steward era over any version of Vitali. He would nulify Vitali's slower hands.
But in a styles makes fight world... I think Vitali would be much more awkward for Joshua. I think Vitali's slowness (which would be his undueing vs Wlad) wouldn't be a factor vs Joshua was is also a bit ponderous.... the superior chin of Vitali would be the key and I would say Vitali on a comfortable(ish) points victory... he would finish the job the Wlad couldn't do.
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 09:14
by Bard of Boxrec
Tuan_Jim wrote:His power is hilariously overrated. He was a big strong volume guy.
Hits Obed Sullivan with everything but can't deck him - that fight sandwiched by Grant and Tua flattening Sullivan.
Hits Byrd innumerable times, nothing happens, Ibeabuchi flattens him, Wlad puts him on floor several times.
Vaughn Bean down heavily vs Holyfield, withstands everything Vitali throws.
Vitali hits a fat 37 year old Lewis with his best shots, can't deck him, McCall and Rahman put him down heavily.
Old fat 39 yr old Corrie Sanders, history of chin problems, Vitali hits him with everything, can't even put him down.
Sam Peter, down thrice vs McCline, down vs Wlad, not a single KD by Vitali.
Arreola and Johnson, no KDs, 40 year old Shannon Briggs, down vs numerous opponents, takes everything, Chisora takes everything, is nuked by David Haye (etc etc).
He's not a puncher, and his crazy KO ratio stats illustrate how meaningless KO ratios are.
Apparently people still need to be told. 'But..but... 95 per cent stoppages!' doesn't tell the story with Vitali.
As to the actual matchup, it's an interesting one. We saw Vitali in the trenches once, against a sluggish and past-it Lewis. He was gasping for air with not half the fight yet complete, and Lewis's punches were largely predictable. Replace him with Joshua there and you would be inclined to believe Josh would put them together and land more. But then there is the factor of Vitali's heart and toughness.
Joshua probably would have had to fight smart, not try and finish Vitali, and the points decision could have been his.
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 10:03
by TheGman
Ossyrules wrote:Vitali had power but it weren't lights out power. There is more to boxing than just having a massive punch to have a high ko record.
Vitali was so much better than his opposition, especially physically, that stoppage victories are envitable, but it doesn't mean he has the biggest punch per se, it means he punches hard enough combined with greater skill set or physical attributes that stoppages will come anyway.
The post with the match ups explains this well.
The post that say he's the hardest hitting heavyweight all time is BS
I meant up until his last 3/4 fights his k.o % meant he was the hardest hitting heavyweight ever,thats not my view im just going off stats. Looking at the match up post before this wipes my post out lol
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 10:15
by davie
thechump wrote:davie wrote:SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
He was a large man so eventually it added up. Nowhere near the power of his brother or aj. Pretty average puncher all around. Shocking how many people classify him a banger.
Bare in mind you are comparing to 2 of the hardest hitters ever. Those 2 have huge power (particularly AJ) and pretty good punch delivery/technique (particularly Wlad)
Vitali hit hard, I watched him hit hard
Would you say AJ hits harder than lennox lewis did? Imo LL hit very hard and vitali took his best shots and walked forward plus i think LL was a better all round boxer than AJ
Lennox was the better fighter, no doubt, but I don't think he had more raw power than Joshua
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 10:24
by cocka09
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:davie wrote:SaadOffTheDeck wrote:AJ easy.vitalis lack of power would hurt him.
Vitali never lacked power.
He sure did. Arm puncher.
Isn't his KO% in the high 80s?
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 10:44
by knockout
Unless AJ cuts him, I cannot see any way of AJ winning.
Vitalis chin was great, he seldom got hit, he hit hard and could pace a fight well.
He only took a handful of meaningful shots in his career he was so awkward - but those he did take showed his chin was granite.
A lot his made of how tired him and Lennox were in their fight, but VK took the fight at short notice and they were fighting at a very high pace given their size.
LL and Corrie Saunders (RIP) were the only ones to lay a meaningful glove on him. LL had a great reach and great skills which allowed him to land and Corrie was a ridiculously quick handed southpaw.
He also had great mental strength and a mean streak.
Vitali may not have been pretty but he was very hard to beat.
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 11:21
by TheGman
davie wrote:thechump wrote:davie wrote:
Bare in mind you are comparing to 2 of the hardest hitters ever. Those 2 have huge power (particularly AJ) and pretty good punch delivery/technique (particularly Wlad)
Vitali hit hard, I watched him hit hard
Would you say AJ hits harder than lennox lewis did? Imo LL hit very hard and vitali took his best shots and walked forward plus i think LL was a better all round boxer than AJ
Lennox was the better fighter, no doubt, but I don't think he had more raw power than Joshua
Lewis imo had more power than AJ its just that Lewis is more calculated and patient,both are powerful men and there from different eras so it would be hard to say who would win cause that becomes opinion based,lewis had a better engine than AJ has
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 12:55
by SaadOffTheDeck
cocka09 wrote:SaadOffTheDeck wrote:davie wrote:
Vitali never lacked power.
He sure did. Arm puncher.
Isn't his KO% in the high 80s?
Have you been reading at all?
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 13:19
by Tuan_Jim
knockout wrote:
A lot his made of how tired him and Lennox were in their fight, but VK took the fight at short notice and they were fighting at a very high pace given their size.
Vitali had a full training camp, he was scheduled to box Cedric Boswell on the Lewis/Kirk Johnson undercard, his big HBO return after the Byrd flop.
Why does nobody else know this?
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 13:48
by knockout
Tuan_Jim wrote:knockout wrote:
A lot his made of how tired him and Lennox were in their fight, but VK took the fight at short notice and they were fighting at a very high pace given their size.
Vitali had a full training camp, he was scheduled to box Cedric Boswell on the Lewis/Kirk Johnson undercard, his big HBO return after the Byrd flop.
Why does nobody else know this?
Apologies , I forgot he was on the undercard . My point about the fast pace still stands though ;)
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 14:18
by Tuan_Jim
knockout wrote:Tuan_Jim wrote:knockout wrote:
A lot his made of how tired him and Lennox were in their fight, but VK took the fight at short notice and they were fighting at a very high pace given their size.
Vitali had a full training camp, he was scheduled to box Cedric Boswell on the Lewis/Kirk Johnson undercard, his big HBO return after the Byrd flop.
Why does nobody else know this?
Apologies , I forgot he was on the undercard . My point about the fast pace still stands though ;)
I think he was tired because, for once, he was fighting an elite heavy and those ones make you work and punch you in the head a lot. Danny Williams, Herbie Hide and Sam Peter - less demanding.
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 14:25
by Finn
SAPFO wrote:Gone are the days that if you bullied Wlad, his big brother Vitali would come around and beat you into a bloody mess. This was something Vitali seemed to take pleasure in. He was a the killer of the K2 pair.
Personally I think Vitali would have put AJ to bed if he'd had AJ hurt like Wlad did in 5, or was it 6? That was the difference between the Bro's.
How do you see it?
Let's not forget chisora jumped all over vitalit at the end of career, a prime vitali would be a good match up.
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 14:53
by jamesmcdonnell
knockout wrote:Unless AJ cuts him, I cannot see any way of AJ winning.
Vitalis chin was great, he seldom got hit, he hit hard and could pace a fight well.
He only took a handful of meaningful shots in his career he was so awkward - but those he did take showed his chin was granite.
A lot his made of how tired him and Lennox were in their fight, but VK took the fight at short notice and they were fighting at a very high pace given their size.
LL and Corrie Saunders (RIP) were the only ones to lay a meaningful glove on him. LL had a great reach and great skills which allowed him to land and Corrie was a ridiculously quick handed southpaw.
He also had great mental strength and a mean streak.
Vitali may not have been pretty but he was very hard to beat.
In his prime, Vitali was very effective. He fought off the back foot with his hands carried out in front of him, and threw a lot of short sharp shots. His workrate was exceptional during his first stint. He may not have been a concussive single puncher, but he bashed his opponents up and wore them down.
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 14:55
by lillywhite14
knockout wrote:Unless AJ cuts him, I cannot see any way of AJ winning.
Vitalis chin was great, he seldom got hit, he hit hard and could pace a fight well.
He only took a handful of meaningful shots in his career he was so awkward - but those he did take showed his chin was granite.
A lot his made of how tired him and Lennox were in their fight, but VK took the fight at short notice and they were fighting at a very high pace given their size.
LL and Corrie Saunders (RIP) were the only ones to lay a meaningful glove on him. LL had a great reach and great skills which allowed him to land and Corrie was a ridiculously quick handed southpaw.
He also had great mental strength and a mean streak.
Vitali may not have been pretty but he was very hard to beat.
Vitali was training for a different fight when he got the call to face Lennox but he admitted all along he knew he was first reserve and was actually training for Lennox in case he got the call.
I like Vitali as a fighter but he's become overrated in recent years. You can't ignore the lack of quality opponents/victories on his record. It says everything about how many rounds he may or may not have lost and why he had such a high stoppage ratio.
Joshua would destroy everyone Vitali beat, probably in better fashion than Vitali did most of the time too.
It's not Vitali's fault he didn't have the opposition though. The Byrd fight effed him up in terms of becoming a player at that point. Had he beat him well then he'd have been a fight away from a 34/35 year old Lewis maybe. Mind you, had that taken place, Vitali wouldn't be discussed too much thesedays
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 14:59
by davie
thechump wrote:davie wrote:thechump wrote:
Would you say AJ hits harder than lennox lewis did? Imo LL hit very hard and vitali took his best shots and walked forward plus i think LL was a better all round boxer than AJ
Lennox was the better fighter, no doubt, but I don't think he had more raw power than Joshua
Lewis imo had more power than AJ its just that Lewis is more calculated and patient,both are powerful men and there from different eras so it would be hard to say who would win cause that becomes opinion based,lewis had a better engine than AJ has
My opinion on that would be that Lewis wins probably 8 times out of 10.
But, also in my opinion, Joshua is the more powerful of the two
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 15:15
by greg
Joshua would have gassed out somewhere in the middle of the fight, Vitali would have "volume punched" him into submission..
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 15:17
by craigjenkins05
Ossyrules wrote:Vitali had power but it weren't lights out power. There is more to boxing than just having a massive punch to have a high ko record.
Vitali was so much better than his opposition, especially physically, that stoppage victories are envitable, but it doesn't mean he has the biggest punch per se, it means he punches hard enough combined with greater skill set or physical attributes that stoppages will come anyway.
The post with the match ups explains this well.
The post that say he's the hardest hitting heavyweight all time is BS
Does AJ have lightsout power though? Most of his stoppages have been the ref jumping in and stopping it has he actually knocked anyone out clean? The whyte KO was good but he looked exhausted
Re: Vitali vs AJ - Hypothetical Matchup of Big Bro Avenging Wlads Loss
Posted: 02 May 2017, 16:07
by TheGman
davie wrote:thechump wrote:davie wrote:
Lennox was the better fighter, no doubt, but I don't think he had more raw power than Joshua
Lewis imo had more power than AJ its just that Lewis is more calculated and patient,both are powerful men and there from different eras so it would be hard to say who would win cause that becomes opinion based,lewis had a better engine than AJ has
My opinion on that would be that Lewis wins probably 8 times out of 10.
But, also in my opinion, Joshua is the more powerful of the two