BoxRec

boxingknockout wrote:

banjo wrote:Lennox didn't turn pro until 1989 which is considered the end of Iron Mikes prime, later on Tyson eventually lost the WBC belt because he wouldn't fight Lennox but the fight he was avoiding him for was Holyfield which was bigger.

I think you mean Bowe lost the WBC belt?

Nope Tyson, Mike won the WBC from Bruno in '96, he lost it the moment he stepped in with Seldon for the WBA because Lewis was mandatory for the WBC.

Is this true ? From May 1996

"The handlers of Mike Tyson couldn't win in court, so they paid Lennox Lewis, who agreed Thursday to step aside and let Tyson fight World Boxing Assn. champion Bruce Seldon on July 13 in Las Vegas.

The New Jersey Supreme Court had blocked Tyson's bid to fight Seldon after Lewis had gone to court, claiming that he should be fighting for Tyson's World Boxing Council title, rather than Seldon. Attempts by Tyson and promoter Don King to overturn that decision failed, and that crown will not be at stake when Tyson fights Seldon.

Though terms of the agreement were not announced, Lewis reportedly will be paid an amount in seven figures"

Wales wrote:Is this true ? From May 1996

"The handlers of Mike Tyson couldn't win in court, so they paid Lennox Lewis, who agreed Thursday to step aside and let Tyson fight World Boxing Assn. champion Bruce Seldon on July 13 in Las Vegas.

The New Jersey Supreme Court had blocked Tyson's bid to fight Seldon after Lewis had gone to court, claiming that he should be fighting for Tyson's World Boxing Council title, rather than Seldon. Attempts by Tyson and promoter Don King to overturn that decision failed, and that crown will not be at stake when Tyson fights Seldon.

Though terms of the agreement were not announced, Lewis reportedly will be paid an amount in seven figures"

Yeah, it's a well known story that they paid Lewis a good chunk of change to not fight him.

Ossyrules wrote:My recollection is they were some way off fighting anywhere near mikes prime, or even mike pre jail.

Mike pre jail was his prime, no doubt about that. He peaked at a very, very young age.

Just look at the first Holyfield fight, and watch his early performances from 86, 87, 88 etc, the movement from him post jail was never quite the same.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Nightmare Roy wrote:A 20-22 year old Tyson would beat ANY HW ever IMO.

Not holyfield, no chance.

I would'nt be so sure, it would have been one hell of a fight thats for sure. Tyson would have done well in the early rounds i'm confident of that, the question is could he have gotton Holyfield out of there before it went to deep waters where we know Holyfield would come on strong?

ALI wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:My recollection is they were some way off fighting anywhere near mikes prime, or even mike pre jail.

Mike pre jail was his prime, no doubt about that. He peaked at a very, very young age.

Just look at the first Holyfield fight, and watch his early performances from 86, 87, 88 etc, the movement from him post jail was never quite the same.

Apologies I never made it clear.

By prime I mean late 80s

By pre jail I'm talking 91, still good but not his best

Post jail clearly worse

So it should read there peaks were way off, and even pre jail mike where he was still good but not his best. I'm not implying post jail was best

ALI wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Nightmare Roy wrote:A 20-22 year old Tyson would beat ANY HW ever IMO.

Not holyfield, no chance.

I would'nt be so sure, it would have been one hell of a fight thats for sure. Tyson would have done well in the early rounds i'm confident of that, the question is could he have gotton Holyfield out of there before it went to deep waters where we know Holyfield would come on strong?

I agree with this

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Nah, Lennox was holding for dear life, you could see his anxiety clear as day during the ring walk. Finally in the second round after another stern warning for holding he realized he had nothing to fear and kicked his ass. You're delusional as hell if you think Mike was the one looking intimidated in the ring walk and opening moments.

You don't look at that first press conference and see a terrified man in Tyson?

I'm talking about the actual fight. It was clear as day. I was anxious too because I had money on Lennox. Mike may have been horrified inside, he didn't show it. Lewis did. It should go without saying there are different emotions running for the ring walk and round one than at a press conference.

Fair enough, Lewis was always very cautious and he took Tyson seriously. And he was right too. Someone on here said it was one of the great heavyweight fights recently and I disagree, it was one of the most one sided beat downs I've ever seen. I don't recall thinking Lewis looked scared but he did give Tyson a lot of respect early on, when he was most dangerous. For me though Tyson was never in this fight, he was scared from day one and looking at his behaviour in the infamous press conference confirms it for me, they were the actions of a frightened man. Lewis' style early was the style of a man who'd been in there with him when he was very dangerous, it may have only been sparring but Lewis knew he had to respect that power.

I also think if Lewis had really put it on him he could have got rid of him much earlier.

ALI wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:My recollection is they were some way off fighting anywhere near mikes prime, or even mike pre jail.

Mike pre jail was his prime, no doubt about that. He peaked at a very, very young age.

Just look at the first Holyfield fight, and watch his early performances from 86, 87, 88 etc, the movement from him post jail was never quite the same.

Going by his book he fought most of his later fights full of class As

Stuarty30 wrote:

ALI wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:My recollection is they were some way off fighting anywhere near mikes prime, or even mike pre jail.

Mike pre jail was his prime, no doubt about that. He peaked at a very, very young age.

Just look at the first Holyfield fight, and watch his early performances from 86, 87, 88 etc, the movement from him post jail was never quite the same.

Going by his book he fought most of his later fights full of class As

His book is one of the best reads ever!

Ossyrules wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:

ALI wrote:
Mike pre jail was his prime, no doubt about that. He peaked at a very, very young age.

Just look at the first Holyfield fight, and watch his early performances from 86, 87, 88 etc, the movement from him post jail was never quite the same.

Going by his book he fought most of his later fights full of class As

His book is one of the best reads ever!

Pretty graphic isn't it

Have to say he says on more than one occasion he loves women etc but he comes across very mysagonistic at times. It's actually surprising he's still here tbh. Very self destructive. Seems to have found a bit of peace now though.

I wouldn't mind reading it again though. It's years since I've read it. I think it might be in my slack arse ex wife's house

banjo wrote:

boxingknockout wrote:

banjo wrote:Lennox didn't turn pro until 1989 which is considered the end of Iron Mikes prime, later on Tyson eventually lost the WBC belt because he wouldn't fight Lennox but the fight he was avoiding him for was Holyfield which was bigger.

I think you mean Bowe lost the WBC belt?

Nope Tyson, Mike won the WBC from Bruno in '96, he lost it the moment he stepped in with Seldon for the WBA because Lewis was mandatory for the WBC.

Oh right - had forgotten that

Stuarty30 wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:
Going by his book he fought most of his later fights full of class As

His book is one of the best reads ever!

Pretty graphic isn't it

Have to say he says on more than one occasion he loves women etc but he comes across very mysagonistic at times. It's actually surprising he's still here tbh. Very self destructive. Seems to have found a bit of peace now though.

I wouldn't mind reading it again though. It's years since I've read it. I think it might be in my slack arse ex wife's house

Yeah really graphic, it's no surprise he didn't last long at his best.

Found the book pretty funny in parts

I really enjoyed the first few hundred pages of Tyson's book but then I thought it got very repetitive going into detail about his drugs & womanising without adding anything to the story. For me the later bits could have been summarised much more quickly. As I recall he kept mentioning how all of this was before he reformed but with ever fewer pages remaining I kept wondering if he was going to get time to reform before running out of pages!

ALI wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Nightmare Roy wrote:A 20-22 year old Tyson would beat ANY HW ever IMO.

Not holyfield, no chance.

I would'nt be so sure, it would have been one hell of a fight thats for sure. Tyson would have done well in the early rounds i'm confident of that, the question is could he have gotton Holyfield out of there before it went to deep waters where we know Holyfield would come on strong?

He could never get holyfield out of there and he knows it

A prime version of both simply never meets the other unless someone has a time machine.

Lewis, and Holyfield and any other truly great fighter simply don't get intimidated. It's part of the confidence that comes with being a truly great fighter. Douglas wasn't scared going in to the Tyson fight. He'd just lost his mum had he not? Nothing Tyson could do to him would ever match that pain.

Tyson was a phenomenon, and the arguably most exciting heavyweight the division has ever seen. This has led to him becoming overrated, but that's ok to be honest. He was massive for the sport. I don't see any version of him beating a truly great fighter on their best form. Lewis and Holyfield were truly great.

Nightmare Roy wrote:A 20-22 year old Tyson would beat ANY HW ever IMO.

I go with this but its hard to publicly say that Tyson would have beaten Ali without getting shouted down. For me Tyson was the best fighting machine ever. I certainly think that prior to Bruno 1 Mike would have kicked anyones ass in any era. But im saying it quietly as not to attract too much attention.

It wouldn't surprise me if it came out that the 20-22 year old Tyson was actually a few years older than that.

mimmy123 wrote:

Nightmare Roy wrote:A 20-22 year old Tyson would beat ANY HW ever IMO.

I go with this but its hard to publicly say that Tyson would have beaten Ali without getting shouted down. For me Tyson was the best fighting machine ever. I certainly think that prior to Bruno 1 Mike would have kicked anyones ass in any era. But im saying it quietly as not to attract too much attention.

I know, you always get shouted down and called a casual etc, but he was an absolute beast in his early years.