BoxRec

verlichte wrote:

tonymaccaroni wrote:You call me unknowledgeable and regurgitate your facts. Do you remember this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJuwAz-ekoQ

BJS literally admitting that GGG would beat him. Straight from your favorite source. Even he disagrees with you mate

This video has nothing whatsoever to do with our discussion. The video itself is more than two years old. Golovkin’s withdrawal from the Billy Joe Saunders fight occurred last month.

Only an intellectually-challenged person would submit a video that does not support their argument in anyway, whilst also being totally irrelevant to the subject matter being discussed.

You can employ diversionary tactics if you wish, but it only serves to undermine your credibility.

It's clear to me that you’re arguing about a subject matter that you know very little about… and the only reason why you refuse to abandon the debate, is due to your argumentative nature, instead of possessing a genuine desire to learn from others.

To be honest, I’m not even sure if you’re a genuine fan of the sport, because the information that I’ve conveyed is common-knowledge and easily accessible/verifiable, yet you sincerely refuse to believe that it's true.

Lol ok now i know your just trolling or thick. You are not an intellectual. You don't even know what half the words you use mean and use them out of context. You think you are though clearly.

What is the debate??? Your repetitive nature has confused me now? You keep ignoring the questions asked and going back to the same thing we have been over now like five times. I agree with your facts as repeatedly stated to you and you just keep going back in circles ignoring my questions!

I am lost, are you even reading the replies given to you? The video supports my argument of BJS being a coward who doesn't want to fight anyone good.... You say it was 2 years ago, that is a relatively short time in boxing, I have seen no major improvement in BJS from then so I don't get how this is off topic. I have never heard a world title contender (which he was at that point) admit that he would be beaten easily by a guy at the same time in the same division. Never.

What are you saying here. What is the debate? What is this common knowledge you cannot source? What are these easily verifiable facts.

Just come out and say GGG dodged BJS, instead of constantly implying it, so we call all have a good laugh and put this to bed as your sheer ignorance and over estimation of yourself is getting boring now.

For the last god damn time. What you are saying is factually correct. It does not have anything to do with whether BJS is a good fighter or a good champion. All what you are saying proves is at one point GGG wanted BJS and he wasnt happy with the purse. The second time BJS agreed with everything and then GGG pulled out.

This can be interpreted however an individual wants to interpret it. You dont know what was going on in either camps you absolute melon lol, so who are you to say that you are the giver of fact and truth lol. As said previously your facts really are irrelevant in whether BJS is a good fighter or not. Just look at the poll. You are alone in your bizarre views.

If your just gonna insult and dismiss instead of actually discussing the points countered to you then please just stop replying and let someone who is actually up for discussing get involved. You seem very unpopular in this forum and it is obvious why.

tonymaccaroni wrote:Lol ok now i know your just trolling or thick. You are not an intellectual. You don't even know what half the words you use mean and use them out of context. You think you are though clearly.

What is the debate??? Your repetitive nature has confused me now? You keep ignoring the questions asked and going back to the same thing we have been over now like five times. I agree with your facts as repeatedly stated to you and you just keep going back in circles ignoring my questions!

I am lost, are you even reading the replies given to you? The video supports my argument of BJS being a coward who doesn't want to fight anyone good.... You say it was 2 years ago, that is a relatively short time in boxing, I have seen no major improvement in BJS from then so I don't get how this is off topic. I have never heard a world title contender (which he was at that point) admit that he would be beaten easily by a guy at the same time in the same division. Never.

What are you saying here. What is the debate? What is this common knowledge you cannot source? What are these easily verifiable facts.

Just come out and say GGG dodged BJS, instead of constantly implying it, so we call all have a good laugh and put this to bed as your sheer ignorance and over estimation of yourself is getting boring now.

For the last god damn time. What you are saying is factually correct. It does not have anything to do with whether BJS is a good fighter or a good champion. All what you are saying proves is at one point GGG wanted BJS and he wasnt happy with the purse. The second time BJS agreed with everything and then GGG pulled out.

This can be interpreted however an individual wants to interpret it. You dont know what was going on in either camps you absolute melon lol, so who are you to say that you are the giver of fact and truth lol. As said previously your facts really are irrelevant in whether BJS is a good fighter or not. Just look at the poll. You are alone in your bizarre views.

If your just gonna insult and dismiss instead of actually discussing the points countered to you then please just stop replying and let someone who is actually up for discussing get involved. You seem very unpopular in this forum and it is obvious why.

You are attempting to move our debate away from the original topic being discussed. I am under no obligation to discuss these irrelevant points, since the vast majority of them don’t relate to anything that I’ve actually mentioned.

Instead of writing “War & Peace”, please quote my actual words, since then I’ll feel compelled to defend them. Writing pure J.K. Rowling-like fiction just makes me lose patience with you.

Therefore, what you’ve just said, is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read! At no point, in your rambling incoherent response, were you even remotely close to anything that could possibly be considered a rational thought. Everyone that uses this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no kudos and may god have mercy on your soul!

verlichte wrote:

tonymaccaroni wrote:Lol ok now i know your just trolling or thick. You are not an intellectual. You don't even know what half the words you use mean and use them out of context. You think you are though clearly.

What is the debate??? Your repetitive nature has confused me now? You keep ignoring the questions asked and going back to the same thing we have been over now like five times. I agree with your facts as repeatedly stated to you and you just keep going back in circles ignoring my questions!

I am lost, are you even reading the replies given to you? The video supports my argument of BJS being a coward who doesn't want to fight anyone good.... You say it was 2 years ago, that is a relatively short time in boxing, I have seen no major improvement in BJS from then so I don't get how this is off topic. I have never heard a world title contender (which he was at that point) admit that he would be beaten easily by a guy at the same time in the same division. Never.

What are you saying here. What is the debate? What is this common knowledge you cannot source? What are these easily verifiable facts.

Just come out and say GGG dodged BJS, instead of constantly implying it, so we call all have a good laugh and put this to bed as your sheer ignorance and over estimation of yourself is getting boring now.

For the last god damn time. What you are saying is factually correct. It does not have anything to do with whether BJS is a good fighter or a good champion. All what you are saying proves is at one point GGG wanted BJS and he wasnt happy with the purse. The second time BJS agreed with everything and then GGG pulled out.

This can be interpreted however an individual wants to interpret it. You dont know what was going on in either camps you absolute melon lol, so who are you to say that you are the giver of fact and truth lol. As said previously your facts really are irrelevant in whether BJS is a good fighter or not. Just look at the poll. You are alone in your bizarre views.

If your just gonna insult and dismiss instead of actually discussing the points countered to you then please just stop replying and let someone who is actually up for discussing get involved. You seem very unpopular in this forum and it is obvious why.

You are attempting to move our debate away from the original topic being discussed. I am under no obligation to discuss these irrelevant points, since the vast majority of them don’t relate to anything that I’ve actually mentioned.

Instead of writing “War & Peace”, please quote my actual words, since then I’ll feel compelled to defend them. Writing pure J.K. Rowling-like fiction just makes me lose patience with you.

Therefore, what you’ve just said, is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read! At no point, in your rambling incoherent response, were you even remotely close to anything that could possibly be considered a rational thought. Everyone that uses this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no kudos and may god have mercy on your soul!

Wow; you need to get laid...

verlichte wrote:

tonymaccaroni wrote:Lol ok now i know your just trolling or thick. You are not an intellectual. You don't even know what half the words you use mean and use them out of context. You think you are though clearly.

What is the debate??? Your repetitive nature has confused me now? You keep ignoring the questions asked and going back to the same thing we have been over now like five times. I agree with your facts as repeatedly stated to you and you just keep going back in circles ignoring my questions!

I am lost, are you even reading the replies given to you? The video supports my argument of BJS being a coward who doesn't want to fight anyone good.... You say it was 2 years ago, that is a relatively short time in boxing, I have seen no major improvement in BJS from then so I don't get how this is off topic. I have never heard a world title contender (which he was at that point) admit that he would be beaten easily by a guy at the same time in the same division. Never.

What are you saying here. What is the debate? What is this common knowledge you cannot source? What are these easily verifiable facts.

Just come out and say GGG dodged BJS, instead of constantly implying it, so we call all have a good laugh and put this to bed as your sheer ignorance and over estimation of yourself is getting boring now.

For the last god damn time. What you are saying is factually correct. It does not have anything to do with whether BJS is a good fighter or a good champion. All what you are saying proves is at one point GGG wanted BJS and he wasnt happy with the purse. The second time BJS agreed with everything and then GGG pulled out.

This can be interpreted however an individual wants to interpret it. You dont know what was going on in either camps you absolute melon lol, so who are you to say that you are the giver of fact and truth lol. As said previously your facts really are irrelevant in whether BJS is a good fighter or not. Just look at the poll. You are alone in your bizarre views.

If your just gonna insult and dismiss instead of actually discussing the points countered to you then please just stop replying and let someone who is actually up for discussing get involved. You seem very unpopular in this forum and it is obvious why.

You are attempting to move our debate away from the original topic being discussed. I am under no obligation to discuss these irrelevant points, since the vast majority of them don’t relate to anything that I’ve actually mentioned.

Instead of writing “War & Peace”, please quote my actual words, since then I’ll feel compelled to defend them. Writing pure J.K. Rowling-like fiction just makes me lose patience with you.

Therefore, what you’ve just said, is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read! At no point, in your rambling incoherent response, were you even remotely close to anything that could possibly be considered a rational thought. Everyone that uses this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no kudos and may god have mercy on your soul!

I just dont think you understand what a discussion is and usually from what I can see when someone disagrees with your opinion you repeat the same thing about them not actually being boxing fans or not having any knowledge. Every response you have given is identical adding nothing new or even attempting to discuss the counter points being made.

What is is even more interesting is you have not once backed up any of your info with sources or information, whilst slamming everyone else for the same thing pretty much. All you have said is GGG refused to fight BJS, I can't see other points you have made here?

Last try: Point by point quoting your own words as you have requested lets see if you actually answer anything this time or just insult and dismiss.

He was then supposed to gain exposure to the American audience by appearing on the undercard of the Canelo-Smith bout, by facing Gabriel Rosado, with the Brit guaranteed a shot at Alvarez if he emerged victorious. However, the fight fell through due to a contractual dispute between Queensbury Promotions and GBP.

Erm no, here is Rosado's side of the story:

http://www.skysports.com/boxing/news/12 ... iel-rosado

http://www.skysports.com/boxing/news/12 ... iel-rosado

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2016/09/ros ... -saunders/

BJS even says he deemed himself above Rosado and ANY other US middleweight..... So your wrong on that one nothing to do with contract, he snubbed the fight, his first opportunity to defend the world title in America against an opponent 'he deemed weak' on a huge undercard. Any self respecting champion would have jumped at the chance. Not BJS.

Billy Joe Saunders then suffered a hand injury in April 2016.

No no, he suffered two injuries both just before two title defences. First against Bursak and then against Akavov, so twice in a row he was injured before a fight. Convenient. Here is an objective article on the issue:

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2016/10/bil ... s-injured/

By the time Saunders eventually made his first defence of his WBO title, he had endured a twelve months period of inactivity, so he needed to face an “easier” opponent to rid himself of any ring rust.

Yes WBO champion BJS seems to prefer easier opponents when possible I concur with you on this point. Although he had opportunity to fight Rosado who in his own words he deemed a weak opponent and refused him, so his 'injuries' were part of inactivity and part of it was down to his refusal to fight Rosado or any other opponents that were offered to him on the Smith Canelo undercard.

(sources linked in points above explain this fully no need for further info)

Unfortunately for the Brit though, GGG declined the bout, preferring to wait on the side-lines, due to K2’s reluctance to risk losing the September 16th Canelo super-fight. Simply put: Gennady "lost his pen".

All the stuff relating to this one point above and below is complete guff anyway this is the only real thing worth countering. The lost his pen meme is a clear attempt to antagonize GGG in hopes of getting the fight on. It is a pure desperation tactic from a team who are clearly playing games from day one. Here is an article which really sums up the BJS predicament well. They compare him to Liam Smith (who is a better fighter then BJS) and call the potential Canelo vs BJS as Canelo vs Liam Smith 2.0 which is a very accurate description in my opinion.

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2016/12/can ... -saunders/

The article pretty much explains the fact that BJS has no draw whatsoever in America. He is also considered a 'weak' champion who avoids fighting where possible for whatever reasons he decides, injuries, opponent not good enough or not enough money could be anything.

They also make a great point which is that with all the injuries, legitimate or not, after pulling out from two title defences in a row, why risk investing in the promotion of this fight when you can fight a better fighter, with bigger draw who will provide an increased revenue, who actually wants to fight and present a challenge and a great fight people can get excited about. Like Daniel Jacobs. Especially after his almost embarrassing and controversial decision over akavov. BJS himself admitted he was embarrassed and it was a poor performance.

The entire article could swap the word 'Canelo' and replace with GGG and still be 100% applicable.

After all the time-wasting caused by Tom Loeffler, as well as GGG’s indecision, coupled with the significant financial outlay to Fwank Warren's company… Billy Joe Saunders is now contractually-obliged to face Avtandil Khurtsidze on the 8th July. And if he manages to successfully defend his title for the second time, he will be in line to face the winner of the Canelo-GGG super-fight

This is worded in the most one sided way possible, almost pouring scorn on Tom Loeffler for a pretty basic business decision which makes total sense. Here is Loefflers quite straight forward thoughts on BJS and canelo explaining the situation they are in and why they are obviously holding out for Canelo as long as they can:

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2017/03/loe ... -saunders/

I mean its open and shut really, the Canelo fight is the mega fight. The BJS is great for GGG as he can unify the division, but they feel GGG isn't getting younger and fighting Canelo now makes for the better PPV. They delayed because they wanted Canelo and were prepared to wait until after Chavez to confirm it. If they take BJS fight they risk losing the Canelo fight.

In other words they want Canelo while GGG is still at his best. They don't want to risk losing the mega fight because unlike some fighters they actually want to fight the best of the best.

Is it not obvious to anyone that GGG v Canelo is the bigger, better, more exciting and more profitable fight? As stated they would love to fight BJS first and unify the division before Canelo, but they cant fit it in and dont want to risk losing Canelo vs GGG in September.

It really is very simple to understand.

Therefore, at what point in time was Billy Joe Saunders supposed to call-out Danny Jacobs... and why would he even bother to do so?

Yes this is the one thing that I agree with you on. As the poll shows only one person thinks BJS has a chance against Jacobs out of like almost 40 voters. Professional and media opinion is exactly the same.

Golovkins coach:

http://www.BS.com/golovkin-coa ... im--115237

Anyone who has watched BJS fight and watched GGG vs Jacobs, would probably share his opinion.

So yes, he should not fight him as he will lose and then what? No GGG. No Canelo. No big payday. All thats left is BJS vs Eubank JR 2.

The reason he might bother however, is if he was fighting for honor and to be the best. All the best fighters in the world want to fight the best to test themselves and see if they can be the top dog.

But BJS is not the best fighter. He is a decent fighter with no power and severe stamina issues who has more controversial decision victories then any fighter I have ever seen. So in relevance to what you are saying and the OP, Jacobs easy win and yes you are right it makes no sense to take a fight that you yourself know you will lose that will pretty much end your career.

At least we can agree on one thing. Now are you going to actually discuss or just dismiss, insult and repeat like every other post?

Get to work ferg

RScarf1 wrote:One person in the poll thinks Saunders is going to win. I guess he's British.

A real brit sshit huh?

tonymaccaroni wrote:Last try: Point by point quoting your own words as you have requested lets see if you actually answer anything this time or just insult and dismiss.

OK, I’m technically struggling to quote your entire lengthy post, so I’ll defend my words instead.

verlichte wrote:He was then supposed to gain exposure to the American audience by appearing on the undercard of the Canelo-Smith bout, by facing Gabriel Rosado, with the Brit guaranteed a shot at Alvarez if he emerged victorious. However, the fight fell through due to a contractual dispute between Queensbury Promotions and GBP.

This sentence is correct!

Fwank Warren had attempted to negotiate a deal with Oscar De La Hoya that would involve Billy Joe Saunders appearing on the undercard of the Canelo-Smith bout, which was subject to certain conditions, with a view for the WBO champ to face the winner of that bout:
• Queensberry Promotions would pick the opponent
• Fwank Warren paid for Saunders’ purse, but would receive financial contribution from GBP to pay for his opponent’s purse
• Golden Boy had to guarantee that the winner of this fight would be next in line to face Canelo

Here are the reasons why Fwank Warren declined to allow Saunders to face Rosado:
• Billy Joe had not committed himself to agree to fight on the Canelo-Smith undercard
• Gabriel Rosado was picked by Oscar De La Hoya and was not included in the list of opponents that GBP & Queensberry had originally discussed. Fwank Warren was actually supposed to pick the opponent, but he wasn't given the opportunity
• GBP’s contribution towards the purses of Saunders & Rosado was insufficient, resulting in a greater financial outlay for Queensberry Promotions
• Golden Boy Promotions refused to provide a written guarantee that the winner of the Saunders-Rosado fight would actually be next in line to face Canelo

Coincidentally, Willie Monroe Jr. replaced Saunders and faced Gabriel Rosado instead, with the bout being promoted as the winner being Canelo’s next opponent. There are multiple YouTube videos of Monroe Jr. and Rosado explaining the importance of their fight, due to the financial benefits of facing Canelo. Even the TV commentators and the media had covered the very same narrative.

And guess what happened? Willie Monroe Jr. defeated Gabriel Rosado, but never received a shot at Canelo! I guess that’s the consequences of not requesting GBP’s promises to be committed in writing.

verlichte wrote:Billy Joe Saunders then suffered a hand injury in April 2016.

This sentence is correct!

He may have been injured multiple times throughout various stages of his career, but I only commented on the injury that caused the longest layoff during 2016.

verlichte wrote:By the time Saunders eventually made his first defence of his WBO title, he had endured a twelve months period of inactivity, so he needed to face an “easier” opponent to rid himself of any ring rust.

This sentence is correct!

Your comments related to this point are inaccurate when you claim that Billy Joe always prefers to face easy opponents “when possible”.

Saunders has defeated Chris Eubank Jr., Andy Lee, GGG refused to accept the June 10th fight and the Brit is defending his WBO world title against Avtandil Khurtsidze in his very next outing.

verlichte wrote:Unfortunately for the Brit though, GGG declined the bout, preferring to wait on the side-lines, due to K2’s reluctance to risk losing the September 16th Canelo super-fight. Simply put: Gennady "lost his pen".

This sentence is correct!

Your feedback on this particular matter does not undermine my comments and nor do I agree with anything that you've said.

verlichte wrote:After all the time-wasting caused by Tom Loeffler, as well as GGG’s indecision, coupled with the significant financial outlay to Fwank Warren's company… Billy Joe Saunders is now contractually-obliged to face Avtandil Khurtsidze on the 8th July. And if he manages to successfully defend his title for the second time, he will be in line to face the winner of the Canelo-GGG super-fight

This sentence is correct!

Fwank Warren claimed yesterday that he wants Billy Joe Saunders to appear on the GGG-Canelo undercard, with a view to the Brit facing the winner of the super-fight.

Just to educate you on all the facts, here are the timelines in chronological order for what has actually occurred during the Golovkin-Saunders debacle:

• 17/12/2016 – The Golovkin-Jacobs fight is officially announced
• 24/01/2017 - Billy Joe Saunders announces a "game-changing fight" that "the fans will genuinely love", which will require him to "travel", not to the "US" but in his opponents' "home country"
• 07/02/2017 – Fwank Warren announced that middleweight contender Avtandil Khurtsidze would be paid a six-figure step-aside fee, including a shot at the interim version of the WBO middleweight title, to allow Saunders to pursue “a major fight next”
• 13/03/2017 – Billy Joe Saunders claims that he could face GGG “very, very, very, very, very soon”
• 15/03/2017 – The media reports that June 10th is the date set for the GGG-Saunders fight, with Tom Loeffler refusing to confirm the speculation
• 17/03/2017 – Fwank Warren announces that if Golovkin defeats Jacobs then he wants Saunders next
• 18/03/2017 - Gennady Golovkin scores a decision victory over Danny Jacobs
• 19/03/2017 - GGG challenges the Brit to face him in his native Kazakhstan
• 20/03/2017 - Billy Joe Saunders claims that his team commenced negotiations for the GGG fight before he had even faced Jacobs (as per his comments on the 24/01/2017) and that they have already agreed the financial terms of the bout, but were simply waiting for Golovkin's signature
• 21/03/2017 - Oscar De La Hoya claims that Team GGG have to be more fair about contract negotiations based on the financials of the Golovkin-Jacobs fight
• 24/03/2017 - Oscar De La Hoya claims that a June fight between Golovkin & Saunders is disrespectful if they also hope to make the Canelo bout in September, due to the possible risks of injury to Golovkin and also reducing the time available to promote the super-fight
• 25/03/2017 - Billy Joe Saunders urges Golovkin to stop wasting time and take the fight
• 28/03/2017 - Billy Joe Saunders issues a deadline of the 31/03/2017 for GGG to agree the fight
• 29/03/2017 - Abel Sanchez claims that Oscar De La Hoya's threats are one way to say that they don't want the GGG-Canelo fight
• 29/03/2017 – Fwank Warren claims all the terms of the GGG fight have been accepted, but Golovkin has ten days, which is a deadline of the 08/04/2017, to sign the contract
• 30/03/2017 - Tom Loeffler claims that his team intend to make the Saunders fight, because nothing is signed with Golden Boy
• 30/03/2017 - Tom Loeffler denies knowledge of deadlines imposed by Saunders & Oscar De La Hoya claiming that an announcement would be made during W/C 03/04/2017
• 31/03/2017 - Billy Joe Saunders reminds Golovkin to sign the fight, offers to loan him his pen and also publishes the text messages he received from Tom Loeffler that proved the delay was caused by Team GGG
• 06/04/2017 - Fwank Warren informs the media that Team GGG is claiming that an injury to Golovkin is delaying the signing of the fight
• 07/04/2017 - Abel Sanchez clearly and adamantly denies the existence of any injury to Golovkin
• 11/04/2017 – The media report that GGG is declining the opportunity to face Billy Joe Saunders and will face Canelo instead.

So we know for certain that Saunders had already agreed the terms, the date of the Golovkin bout and also signed the contract, with his promoter (Fwank Warren) going as far as paying the WBO’s mandatory challenger a six-figure step-aside fee and also orchestrating an interim-WBO world title contest for him (as compensation to allow Billy Joe to face Golovkin), but GGG’s pen somehow went missing!

I refuse to criticise GGG for preferring to face Canelo instead of Saunders (he did "lose his pen" though), but I will criticise K2 for making promises to Queensberry that they ultimately refused to fulfil, which caused Fwank Warren a considerable sum of money. Tom Loeffler is wholly responsible for this.

The rest of your response in relation to my original comment is irrelevant, since it doesn’t directly address the facts at hand.

tonymaccaroni wrote:At least we can agree on one thing. Now are you going to actually discuss or just dismiss, insult and repeat like every other post?

Like I said before, you shouldn’t insult people without expecting to receive some sort of retaliation. Your actions have essentially granted me permission to offend you about anything you say.

No sources. Just repeating the same thing again over and over. Nothing new, no advancement. You have been told like 6 times that most of your statements are technically correct, but your just not interested in looking any deeper into these events and the potential reasons behind why they occurred. You are just accepting Fwank and BJS explanations without looking into the implications and potential reasoning from both sides.

Theres nothing to even discuss here, just a clearly biased repetition of subjective events that occurred, which can be interpreted in a number of ways. This is the discussion I was trying to have in regards to how these actions can be interpreted, but you are only interested in repeating yourself when someone tries to counter you or offer alternative views on the set of events you describe.

You don't even really make any points.... The only actually opinion you offered is that K2 wasted Fwank Warrens time and thats ur criticism...? The discussion is on whether BJS would beat Jacobs. I am offering reasons why myself and many boxing professionals and global boxing media see BJS as a coward clinging on to his title having only ever defended it once in 2 years, refusing every fight that is offered for a multitude of reasons. Sure he has reasons to reject them I am not saying they are illegitimate, I am saying I don't like him for it and I think he makes British boxing look really bad.

This contributes to why I think Jacobs would defeat him pretty easily. Jacobs is a fighter, he wants to fight and be the best. Some people gave him the GGG fight on points. I couldn't pick a winner either way and would not have argued with a point for either or a draw.

You say why would he even fight Jacobs and the answer would be to prove he is worthy of fighting GGG or Canelo. Something I still don't think he has done. Andy Lee was his greatest achievement ever and Lee looked extremely poor on the night. Eubank Junior pretty much gave him the win by refusing to fight for the first 6 rounds. That fight was still close on the cards even with a 6 round head start.

No matter what statements of fact you make, it doesn't change the fact that BJS is a boring average fighter who many see as a coward holding the title to ransom instead of actually trying to defend it.

I think this has run its course. As I have repeatedly said that most of your facts are technically true, but your not interested in moving the discussion forward from these points so whats really left to discuss?

I don't know how what you said would offend anyone or what your retaliation is supposed to be ( was that post it? ) and from what I can see you are the only person who insults people or dismisses them as not being boxing fans. I mean you haven't said anything new or anything that dispels anything I said, you just kind of offer a different outlook without really committing to any opinions, which unlike you I accept and respect as this is a totally subjective discussion. I am just interested in discussing the points you made in more depth while you just want to repeat them over and over even though they are meaningless in regards to whether BJS is a good fighter and where he ranks in the middleweight scene compared to other British and World Level middleweights.

GGG didn't lose his pen, he just didn't want to take a shit fight against a shit opponent with no draw when he could fight Canelo. Pen worked just fine for the Canelo contract, so yeah BJS was pissed he lost the big payday and like the classy guy he is mocked a potential legend instead of just accepting the facts of the matter and working to increase his rep worldwide by taking fights and beating good opponents on a world level.

verlichte wrote:Just to educate you on all the facts, here are the timelines in chronological order for what has actually occurred during the Golovkin-Saunders debacle:

• 17/12/2016 – The Golovkin-Jacobs fight is officially announced
• 24/01/2017 - Billy Joe Saunders announces a "game-changing fight" that "the fans will genuinely love", which will require him to "travel", not to the "US" but in his opponents' "home country"
• 07/02/2017 – Fwank Warren announced that middleweight contender Avtandil Khurtsidze would be paid a six-figure step-aside fee, including a shot at the interim version of the WBO middleweight title, to allow Saunders to pursue “a major fight next”
• 13/03/2017 – Billy Joe Saunders claims that he could face GGG “very, very, very, very, very soon”
• 15/03/2017 – The media reports that June 10th is the date set for the GGG-Saunders fight, with Tom Loeffler refusing to confirm the speculation
• 17/03/2017 – Fwank Warren announces that if Golovkin defeats Jacobs then he wants Saunders next
• 18/03/2017 - Gennady Golovkin scores a decision victory over Danny Jacobs
• 19/03/2017 - GGG challenges the Brit to face him in his native Kazakhstan
• 20/03/2017 - Billy Joe Saunders claims that his team commenced negotiations for the GGG fight before he had even faced Jacobs (as per his comments on the 24/01/2017) and that they have already agreed the financial terms of the bout, but were simply waiting for Golovkin's signature
• 21/03/2017 - Oscar De La Hoya claims that Team GGG have to be more fair about contract negotiations based on the financials of the Golovkin-Jacobs fight
• 24/03/2017 - Oscar De La Hoya claims that a June fight between Golovkin & Saunders is disrespectful if they also hope to make the Canelo bout in September, due to the possible risks of injury to Golovkin and also reducing the time available to promote the super-fight
• 25/03/2017 - Billy Joe Saunders urges Golovkin to stop wasting time and take the fight
• 28/03/2017 - Billy Joe Saunders issues a deadline of the 31/03/2017 for GGG to agree the fight
• 29/03/2017 - Abel Sanchez claims that Oscar De La Hoya's threats are one way to say that they don't want the GGG-Canelo fight
• 29/03/2017 – Fwank Warren claims all the terms of the GGG fight have been accepted, but Golovkin has ten days, which is a deadline of the 08/04/2017, to sign the contract
• 30/03/2017 - Tom Loeffler claims that his team intend to make the Saunders fight, because nothing is signed with Golden Boy
• 30/03/2017 - Tom Loeffler denies knowledge of deadlines imposed by Saunders & Oscar De La Hoya claiming that an announcement would be made during W/C 03/04/2017
• 31/03/2017 - Billy Joe Saunders reminds Golovkin to sign the fight, offers to loan him his pen and also publishes the text messages he received from Tom Loeffler that proved the delay was caused by Team GGG
• 06/04/2017 - Fwank Warren informs the media that Team GGG is claiming that an injury to Golovkin is delaying the signing of the fight
• 07/04/2017 - Abel Sanchez clearly and adamantly denies the existence of any injury to Golovkin
• 11/04/2017 – The media report that GGG is declining the opportunity to face Billy Joe Saunders and will face Canelo instead.

I have re read this entire thing and I just don't even understand what you arguing about? I don't disagree with any of this!!!! Yet it you just keep repeating these set of events in more and more detail, like I am refusing to accept them?

What is your point in this argument?

tonymaccaroni wrote:No sources. Just repeating the same thing again over and over. Nothing new, no advancement. You have been told like 6 times that most of your statements are technically correct, but your just not interested in looking any deeper into these events and the potential reasons behind why they occurred. You are just accepting Fwank and BJS explanations without looking into the implications and potential reasoning from both sides.

Theres nothing to even discuss here, just a clearly biased repetition of subjective events that occurred, which can be interpreted in a number of ways. This is the discussion I was trying to have in regards to how these actions can be interpreted, but you are only interested in repeating yourself when someone tries to counter you or offer alternative views on the set of events you describe.

You don't even really make any points.... The only actually opinion you offered is that K2 wasted Fwank Warrens time and thats ur criticism...? The discussion is on whether BJS would beat Jacobs. I am offering reasons why myself and many boxing professionals and global boxing media see BJS as a coward clinging on to his title having only ever defended it once in 2 years, refusing every fight that is offered for a multitude of reasons. Sure he has reasons to reject them I am not saying they are illegitimate, I am saying I don't like him for it and I think he makes British boxing look really bad.

This contributes to why I think Jacobs would defeat him pretty easily. Jacobs is a fighter, he wants to fight and be the best. Some people gave him the GGG fight on points. I couldn't pick a winner either way and would not have argued with a point for either or a draw.

You say why would he even fight Jacobs and the answer would be to prove he is worthy of fighting GGG or Canelo. Something I still don't think he has done. Andy Lee was his greatest achievement ever and Lee looked extremely poor on the night. Eubank Junior pretty much gave him the win by refusing to fight for the first 6 rounds. That fight was still close on the cards even with a 6 round head start.

No matter what statements of fact you make, it doesn't change the fact that BJS is a boring average fighter who many see as a coward holding the title to ransom instead of actually trying to defend it.

I think this has run its course. As I have repeatedly said that most of your facts are technically true, but your not interested in moving the discussion forward from these points so whats really left to discuss?

I don't know how what you said would offend anyone or what your retaliation is supposed to be ( was that post it? ) and from what I can see you are the only person who insults people or dismisses them as not being boxing fans. I mean you haven't said anything new or anything that dispels anything I said, you just kind of offer a different outlook without really committing to any opinions, which unlike you I accept and respect as this is a totally subjective discussion. I am just interested in discussing the points you made in more depth while you just want to repeat them over and over even though they are meaningless in regards to whether BJS is a good fighter and where he ranks in the middleweight scene compared to other British and World Level middleweights.

GGG didn't lose his pen, he just didn't want to take a poo fight against a poo opponent with no draw when he could fight Canelo. Pen worked just fine for the Canelo contract, so yeah BJS was pissed he lost the big payday and like the classy guy he is mocked a potential legend instead of just accepting the facts of the matter and working to increase his rep worldwide by taking fights and beating good opponents on a world level.

My goodness, that's a long post!

Every single one of my statements are 100% factually-correct.

The onus is on you to prove they're incorrect, since you initially dismissed the accuracy of my claims. There’s nothing I can do if you insist on refraining from fact-checking.

The bottom line is this…

We know for certain that Saunders had already agreed the financial terms, the date of the Golovkin bout and had also signed the contract, with his promoter (Fwank Warren) going as far as paying the WBO’s mandatory challenger a six-figure step-aside fee and also orchestrating an interim-WBO world title contest for him (as compensation to allow Billy Joe to face Golovkin)... yet GGG’s pen somehow went missing!

That is the reason why I listed, in chronological order, the events that were reported by the media surrounding the Saunders-GGG debacle, since it justifies my belief that K2 could have handled the situation better!

When you possess a detailed understanding of the entire situation, appreciate the proverbial “big picture”, rather than solely focussing on minutiae events (whilst ignoring everything else), you’ll surely come to the conclusion that my opinion on the matter is not unreasonable.

tonymaccaroni wrote:

verlichte wrote:Just to educate you on all the facts, here are the timelines in chronological order for what has actually occurred during the Golovkin-Saunders debacle:

• 17/12/2016 – The Golovkin-Jacobs fight is officially announced
• 24/01/2017 - Billy Joe Saunders announces a "game-changing fight" that "the fans will genuinely love", which will require him to "travel", not to the "US" but in his opponents' "home country"
• 07/02/2017 – Fwank Warren announced that middleweight contender Avtandil Khurtsidze would be paid a six-figure step-aside fee, including a shot at the interim version of the WBO middleweight title, to allow Saunders to pursue “a major fight next”
• 13/03/2017 – Billy Joe Saunders claims that he could face GGG “very, very, very, very, very soon”
• 15/03/2017 – The media reports that June 10th is the date set for the GGG-Saunders fight, with Tom Loeffler refusing to confirm the speculation
• 17/03/2017 – Fwank Warren announces that if Golovkin defeats Jacobs then he wants Saunders next
• 18/03/2017 - Gennady Golovkin scores a decision victory over Danny Jacobs
• 19/03/2017 - GGG challenges the Brit to face him in his native Kazakhstan
• 20/03/2017 - Billy Joe Saunders claims that his team commenced negotiations for the GGG fight before he had even faced Jacobs (as per his comments on the 24/01/2017) and that they have already agreed the financial terms of the bout, but were simply waiting for Golovkin's signature
• 21/03/2017 - Oscar De La Hoya claims that Team GGG have to be more fair about contract negotiations based on the financials of the Golovkin-Jacobs fight
• 24/03/2017 - Oscar De La Hoya claims that a June fight between Golovkin & Saunders is disrespectful if they also hope to make the Canelo bout in September, due to the possible risks of injury to Golovkin and also reducing the time available to promote the super-fight
• 25/03/2017 - Billy Joe Saunders urges Golovkin to stop wasting time and take the fight
• 28/03/2017 - Billy Joe Saunders issues a deadline of the 31/03/2017 for GGG to agree the fight
• 29/03/2017 - Abel Sanchez claims that Oscar De La Hoya's threats are one way to say that they don't want the GGG-Canelo fight
• 29/03/2017 – Fwank Warren claims all the terms of the GGG fight have been accepted, but Golovkin has ten days, which is a deadline of the 08/04/2017, to sign the contract
• 30/03/2017 - Tom Loeffler claims that his team intend to make the Saunders fight, because nothing is signed with Golden Boy
• 30/03/2017 - Tom Loeffler denies knowledge of deadlines imposed by Saunders & Oscar De La Hoya claiming that an announcement would be made during W/C 03/04/2017
• 31/03/2017 - Billy Joe Saunders reminds Golovkin to sign the fight, offers to loan him his pen and also publishes the text messages he received from Tom Loeffler that proved the delay was caused by Team GGG
• 06/04/2017 - Fwank Warren informs the media that Team GGG is claiming that an injury to Golovkin is delaying the signing of the fight
• 07/04/2017 - Abel Sanchez clearly and adamantly denies the existence of any injury to Golovkin
• 11/04/2017 – The media report that GGG is declining the opportunity to face Billy Joe Saunders and will face Canelo instead.

I have re read this entire thing and I just don't even understand what you arguing about? I don't disagree with any of this!!!! Yet it you just keep repeating these set of events in more and more detail, like I am refusing to accept them?

What is your point in this argument?

Don't bother. It's a waste of life.

verlichte wrote:

tonymaccaroni wrote:No sources. Just repeating the same thing again over and over. Nothing new, no advancement. You have been told like 6 times that most of your statements are technically correct, but your just not interested in looking any deeper into these events and the potential reasons behind why they occurred. You are just accepting Fwank and BJS explanations without looking into the implications and potential reasoning from both sides.

Theres nothing to even discuss here, just a clearly biased repetition of subjective events that occurred, which can be interpreted in a number of ways. This is the discussion I was trying to have in regards to how these actions can be interpreted, but you are only interested in repeating yourself when someone tries to counter you or offer alternative views on the set of events you describe.

You don't even really make any points.... The only actually opinion you offered is that K2 wasted Fwank Warrens time and thats ur criticism...? The discussion is on whether BJS would beat Jacobs. I am offering reasons why myself and many boxing professionals and global boxing media see BJS as a coward clinging on to his title having only ever defended it once in 2 years, refusing every fight that is offered for a multitude of reasons. Sure he has reasons to reject them I am not saying they are illegitimate, I am saying I don't like him for it and I think he makes British boxing look really bad.

This contributes to why I think Jacobs would defeat him pretty easily. Jacobs is a fighter, he wants to fight and be the best. Some people gave him the GGG fight on points. I couldn't pick a winner either way and would not have argued with a point for either or a draw.

You say why would he even fight Jacobs and the answer would be to prove he is worthy of fighting GGG or Canelo. Something I still don't think he has done. Andy Lee was his greatest achievement ever and Lee looked extremely poor on the night. Eubank Junior pretty much gave him the win by refusing to fight for the first 6 rounds. That fight was still close on the cards even with a 6 round head start.

No matter what statements of fact you make, it doesn't change the fact that BJS is a boring average fighter who many see as a coward holding the title to ransom instead of actually trying to defend it.

I think this has run its course. As I have repeatedly said that most of your facts are technically true, but your not interested in moving the discussion forward from these points so whats really left to discuss?

I don't know how what you said would offend anyone or what your retaliation is supposed to be ( was that post it? ) and from what I can see you are the only person who insults people or dismisses them as not being boxing fans. I mean you haven't said anything new or anything that dispels anything I said, you just kind of offer a different outlook without really committing to any opinions, which unlike you I accept and respect as this is a totally subjective discussion. I am just interested in discussing the points you made in more depth while you just want to repeat them over and over even though they are meaningless in regards to whether BJS is a good fighter and where he ranks in the middleweight scene compared to other British and World Level middleweights.

GGG didn't lose his pen, he just didn't want to take a poo fight against a poo opponent with no draw when he could fight Canelo. Pen worked just fine for the Canelo contract, so yeah BJS was pissed he lost the big payday and like the classy guy he is mocked a potential legend instead of just accepting the facts of the matter and working to increase his rep worldwide by taking fights and beating good opponents on a world level.

My goodness, that's a long post!

Every single one of my statements are 100% factually-correct.

The onus is on you to prove they're incorrect, since you initially dismissed the accuracy of my claims. There’s nothing I can do if you insist on refraining from fact-checking.

The bottom line is this…

We know for certain that Saunders had already agreed the financial terms, the date of the Golovkin bout and had also signed the contract, with his promoter (Fwank Warren) going as far as paying the WBO’s mandatory challenger a six-figure step-aside fee and also orchestrating an interim-WBO world title contest for him (as compensation to allow Billy Joe to face Golovkin)... yet GGG’s pen somehow went missing!

That is the reason why I listed, in chronological order, the events that were reported by the media surrounding the Saunders-GGG debacle, since it justifies my belief that K2 could have handled the situation better!

When you possess a detailed understanding of the entire situation, appreciate the proverbial “big picture”, rather than solely focussing on minutiae events (whilst ignoring everything else), you’ll surely come to the conclusion that my opinion on the matter is not unreasonable.

What is your opinion on the matter I genuinely have no idea, it just comes across that you are BJS super fan who keeps repeating the events that occurred during the contract negotiations without offering any opinions.

The only opinion I have read is that you think they wasted Fwank Warren and BJS time.... I mean yeah duh. Is there anything else I have missed you say?

Loki wrote:

tonymaccaroni wrote:

verlichte wrote:Just to educate you on all the facts, here are the timelines in chronological order for what has actually occurred during the Golovkin-Saunders debacle:

• 17/12/2016 – The Golovkin-Jacobs fight is officially announced
• 24/01/2017 - Billy Joe Saunders announces a "game-changing fight" that "the fans will genuinely love", which will require him to "travel", not to the "US" but in his opponents' "home country"
• 07/02/2017 – Fwank Warren announced that middleweight contender Avtandil Khurtsidze would be paid a six-figure step-aside fee, including a shot at the interim version of the WBO middleweight title, to allow Saunders to pursue “a major fight next”
• 13/03/2017 – Billy Joe Saunders claims that he could face GGG “very, very, very, very, very soon”
• 15/03/2017 – The media reports that June 10th is the date set for the GGG-Saunders fight, with Tom Loeffler refusing to confirm the speculation
• 17/03/2017 – Fwank Warren announces that if Golovkin defeats Jacobs then he wants Saunders next
• 18/03/2017 - Gennady Golovkin scores a decision victory over Danny Jacobs
• 19/03/2017 - GGG challenges the Brit to face him in his native Kazakhstan
• 20/03/2017 - Billy Joe Saunders claims that his team commenced negotiations for the GGG fight before he had even faced Jacobs (as per his comments on the 24/01/2017) and that they have already agreed the financial terms of the bout, but were simply waiting for Golovkin's signature
• 21/03/2017 - Oscar De La Hoya claims that Team GGG have to be more fair about contract negotiations based on the financials of the Golovkin-Jacobs fight
• 24/03/2017 - Oscar De La Hoya claims that a June fight between Golovkin & Saunders is disrespectful if they also hope to make the Canelo bout in September, due to the possible risks of injury to Golovkin and also reducing the time available to promote the super-fight
• 25/03/2017 - Billy Joe Saunders urges Golovkin to stop wasting time and take the fight
• 28/03/2017 - Billy Joe Saunders issues a deadline of the 31/03/2017 for GGG to agree the fight
• 29/03/2017 - Abel Sanchez claims that Oscar De La Hoya's threats are one way to say that they don't want the GGG-Canelo fight
• 29/03/2017 – Fwank Warren claims all the terms of the GGG fight have been accepted, but Golovkin has ten days, which is a deadline of the 08/04/2017, to sign the contract
• 30/03/2017 - Tom Loeffler claims that his team intend to make the Saunders fight, because nothing is signed with Golden Boy
• 30/03/2017 - Tom Loeffler denies knowledge of deadlines imposed by Saunders & Oscar De La Hoya claiming that an announcement would be made during W/C 03/04/2017
• 31/03/2017 - Billy Joe Saunders reminds Golovkin to sign the fight, offers to loan him his pen and also publishes the text messages he received from Tom Loeffler that proved the delay was caused by Team GGG
• 06/04/2017 - Fwank Warren informs the media that Team GGG is claiming that an injury to Golovkin is delaying the signing of the fight
• 07/04/2017 - Abel Sanchez clearly and adamantly denies the existence of any injury to Golovkin
• 11/04/2017 – The media report that GGG is declining the opportunity to face Billy Joe Saunders and will face Canelo instead.

I have re read this entire thing and I just don't even understand what you arguing about? I don't disagree with any of this!!!! Yet it you just keep repeating these set of events in more and more detail, like I am refusing to accept them?

What is your point in this argument?

Don't bother. It's a waste of life.

I gathered a while ago, I just want to see how many times someone can repeat the same information that no one is disputing. Genuinely intrigued.

tonymaccaroni wrote:

Loki wrote:

tonymaccaroni wrote:
I have re read this entire thing and I just don't even understand what you arguing about? I don't disagree with any of this!!!! Yet it you just keep repeating these set of events in more and more detail, like I am refusing to accept them?

What is your point in this argument?

Don't bother. It's a waste of life.

I gathered a while ago, I just want to see how many times someone can repeat the same information that no one is disputing. Genuinely intrigued.

If you agree with all of the facts that I've listed, then you've almost certainly abandoned your original argument, which was generally a whole host of factually-incorrect disparaging comments about Billy Joe Saunders.

It seems that the specific list of complaints that you previously derided Saunders about should be rendered as utter nonsense if you concede that the facts that I have listed are true, since both perspectives are mutually-exclusive in nature.

verlichte wrote:

tonymaccaroni wrote:

Loki wrote:
Don't bother. It's a waste of life.

I gathered a while ago, I just want to see how many times someone can repeat the same information that no one is disputing. Genuinely intrigued.

If you agree with all of the facts that I've listed, then you've almost certainly abandoned your original argument, which was generally a whole host of factually-incorrect disparaging comments about Billy Joe Saunders.

It seems that the specific list of complaints that you previously derided Saunders about should be rendered as utter nonsense if you concede that the facts that I have listed are true, since both perspectives are mutually-exclusive in nature.

You did not disect events well enough. Please add hours, minutes, seconds and timezone offset. Also, provide a source of each of your statements.

verlichte wrote:

tonymaccaroni wrote:

Loki wrote:
Don't bother. It's a waste of life.

I gathered a while ago, I just want to see how many times someone can repeat the same information that no one is disputing. Genuinely intrigued.

If you agree with all of the facts that I've listed, then you've almost certainly abandoned your original argument, which was generally a whole host of factually-incorrect disparaging comments about Billy Joe Saunders.

It seems that the specific list of complaints that you previously derided Saunders about should be rendered as utter nonsense if you concede that the facts that I have listed are true, since both perspectives are mutually-exclusive in nature.

No there not. That doesn't even make any sense.

All you have talked about is the contract negotiation between GGG and BJS, my original post focused on the first time he refused to fight for £1.5 mil and asked when he has been paid nearly that much and how he justifies wanting more money then that to fight when he hasn't even fought outside of the UK. You have said nothing of this once. You even said you refuse to talk about anything else.....

I said the lost his pen was a joke because how could anyone srsly imply that GGG dodged BJS....

I also said he looked poor in many fights. That he would lose at world level to anyone and that he is a greedy coward finally summarizing that Jacobs wins and is the better fighter and better character.

You haven't spoken about any of this once. So what are you talking about if I agree with your timeline about the GGG BJS contract negotiation then everything else I said that has nothing to do with the GGG BJS negotiation is now irrelevant? What?

BJS is a poor champion and not even the best middleweight from Britain. How does your intimate yet source less knowledge of the GGG, BJS contract negotiation disparage any of that?

Hes a disgrace to boxing. He defended his title once in 2 years. He has an excuse for every fight offered to him since he lucky punched his way to the world title against a shit Andy Lee. How does your repetition of the GGG BJS contract episode disprove any of that? You have offered no opinions or discussed anything just repeating yourself.

Pick one point I made in my original post and dispel it then if its utter nonsense.

Jacobs would destroy bjs and bjs knows it. Wouldn't matter where it was fought because it wouldn't go to the cards

tonymaccaroni wrote:All you have talked about is the contract negotiation between GGG and BJS, my original post focused on the first time he refused to fight for £1.5 mil...

Saunders' refused to face GGG for $1.5m, which is not only significantly less than the figure you've quoted, but it's also a lower sum than the likes of Lemieux and Jacobs received when they faced GGG.

tonymaccaroni wrote:I said the lost his pen was a joke because how could anyone srsly imply that GGG dodged BJS....

Technically-speaking, he did. His reasons for doing so may be entirely reasonable, but essentially he failed to sign the Saunders fight contract according to the specified deadline, which is precisely what Eubank Jr. did. GGG actually coined the phrase and repeatedly used it... and so did Saunders when Golovkin did the same thing to him.

tonymaccaroni wrote:I also said he looked poor in many fights.

I wouldn't say many, certainly his most recent title defence.

tonymaccaroni wrote:That he would lose at world level to anyone and that he is a greedy coward...

His resume and eagerness to face the likes of Canelo & GGG certainly doesn't justify your accusations against him.

tonymaccaroni wrote:You haven't spoken about any of this once. So what are you talking about if I agree with your timeline about the GGG BJS contract negotiation then everything else I said that has nothing to do with the GGG BJS negotiation is now irrelevant? What?

Did you even read the timeline? It justifies my "lost his pen" claims, which you agreed with, but somehow now dispute.

Also, my other comments on this thread have been on-topic and have adequately covered my thoughts on the matter. I won't repeat myself, specifically for you.

tonymaccaroni wrote:BJS is a poor champion and not even the best middleweight from Britain. How does your intimate yet source less knowledge of the GGG, BJS contract negotiation disparage any of that?

Which British 160lb-er deserves to be rated above Billy Joe Saunders?

tonymaccaroni wrote:Hes a disgrace to boxing. He defended his title once in 2 years.

Saunders is actually making the second defence of his WBO title over the span of 18 months (567 days) against Avtandil Khurtsidze.

tonymaccaroni wrote:He has an excuse for every fight offered to him since he lucky punched his way to the world title against a poo Andy Lee.

Other than turning down $1.5m to face GGG, which other fights had he rejected, where the circumstances were entirely reasonable?

tonymaccaroni wrote:How does your repetition of the GGG BJS contract episode disprove any of that? You have offered no opinions or discussed anything just repeating yourself.

It proves that you can't or don't read... and the facts sometimes speak for themselves.

tonymaccaroni wrote:Pick one point I made ... and dispel it then if its utter nonsense.

How do you like me now?

What did you dispel? You just gave your opinion on completely subjective matters. My opinion is different.

I disagree with everything you said pretty much cant even be bothered with you anymore as you literally just said that GGG dodged BJS.

But for other more sane boxing fans in my opinion Martin Murray beats him, Liam Smith beats him and Eubank beats him second time round and is a better fighter right now despite his loss. That is in regards to who is a better middleweight in Britain.

The likes of Lemieux..... This shows your bias towards British boxing. Lemieux is a bigger name worldwide and so is Jacobs. Both are hugely more entertaining and exciting styles and both have been in exciting fights with big names on a world level prior to their fights with GGG. I have watched every BJS saunders fight, as I watch every fight in the US and UK and I would rather watch Lemieux or Jacobs any day over BJS. They are just better fighters, he is a good few levels below these guys.

The reason Lemieux looked o poor against GGG, is because GG has stopping power as well boxing skill. Lemieux would walk through BJS.

When did BJS earn anywhere near that in a fight before? Sorry I just disagree with you that BJS deserved more than the names mentioned.

Any Americans or non brit users here care to offer an opinion on who they think the bigger name is in worldwide boxing, Lemieux, Jacobs or Billy Joe Saunders. I mean I know which is the odd one out in terms of ability and level but that should be obvious to any boxing fan

maccaroni, you stepped into a pile of verliSHIT. By this time, you should've figured out that it is impossible to persuade/dissuade that pile. Let it go and never argue with it again.

boxing_rocks wrote:maccaroni, you stepped into a pile of verliSHIT. By this time, you should've figured out that it is impossible to persuade/dissuade that pile. Let it go and never argue with it again.

All I wanted him to do is hear him directly say what he was implying from his initial post, that GGG dodged BJS, which he did. He even went on to make post calling BJS the 'most avoided middleweight in the world', which is laughable. Who avoided him as a tough fight? GGG went for a tougher fight so how is that a dodge lol? He was conveniently injured before both of his first planned defences, refused Rosado, didn't want GGG first time round it was offered and is unhappy he has to fight Khurtsidze. Yeah, the most avoided middleweight....lol

Anyway yeah I think anyone who actually read this can tell its delusional nature.

It is really strange as a British boxing fan I get really pissed off with the terrible match making our prospects get on the way up. You would think if you were a genuine fan of boxing and wanted your country to be successful you would want the management teams to be focused on their fighters development, over milking their careers for the maximum amount of money available.

Look at Callum Smith. Looked top class from his first fight, big and strong with punch power something most of our fighters don't have. Fighting absolute bums for years. Then straight into a world title shot against Dirrel. Don't get me wrong I think he will win no problem. But he should have had a few tougher tests with world level opponents before this point. He definitely looked good enough for it. He made his debut 5 years ago!!!

He has even looked a little less impressive in his last few fights. Can fighters just get used to fighting bums and get stuck at that level without progressing? Does it encourage complacency?

They are just not prepared to risk losing as they see it as the end of the money train when the 0 goes for no reason. Something Sam Eggington show's does not have to be the case. Losses and tough fights can give a fighter experience and increase their potential. Look at Manny.

For me BJS represents the epitome of this approach. A world champion who has thought literally no one at world class level somehow.... Sorry Andy Lee was poor on the night and provided no test at all so I don't buy that one. I dont even mind this approach, I understand if your not a good fighter that you need to do whats best financially for you, so if you see an easy route to a world title and can cash in on a big pay day, which is exactly what BJS and co have done, then more power to you.

Its the shit talking, attitude and acting like he is literally on the same level as Mayweather and boring style, coupled with what I explained above that makes me dislike him.

Just can't grasp why such a genuine fan of the sport supports this attitude so heavily.

tonymaccaroni wrote:All I wanted him to do is hear him directly say what he was implying from his initial post, that GGG dodged BJS, which he did. He even went on to make post calling BJS the 'most avoided middleweight in the world', which is laughable. Who avoided him as a tough fight? GGG went for a tougher fight so how is that a dodge lol?

You're showing your lack of knowledge and intellect kid.

If you'd clicked on the hyperlinks that I supplied within the thread that you're referring to, you'll find that the thread title I used was precisely the same as the article being quoted. Dumb bástárd!

The fact that you refrain from actually reading and comprehending my words, makes it so much easier for me to dismiss your entirely fictional arguments, since you’re often attacking claims that I have never made.

You’re a bit like an obsessive dog chasing a shadow… under the pretence that there is a physical object that you might be be able to grasp, which clearly doesn’t exist!

verlichte wrote:

tonymaccaroni wrote:All I wanted him to do is hear him directly say what he was implying from his initial post, that GGG dodged BJS, which he did. He even went on to make post calling BJS the 'most avoided middleweight in the world', which is laughable. Who avoided him as a tough fight? GGG went for a tougher fight so how is that a dodge lol?

You're showing your lack of knowledge and intellect kid.

If you'd clicked on the hyperlinks that I supplied within the thread that you're referring to, you'll find that the thread title I used was precisely the same as the article being quoted. Dumb bástárd!

The fact that you refrain from actually reading and comprehending my words, makes it so much easier for me to dismiss your entirely fictional arguments, since you’re attacking claims that I have never made.

You’re a bit like an obsessive dog chasing a shadow… under the pretence that there is a physical object that you can grasp, which clearly doesn’t exist!

Yeah i mean your right I didn't read your post. Why would I? Why would anyone read your crap? I just read the title and thought full autism has been achieved and discussed points with other more sane members of the forum. I even said in my post in your tard thread, that I didn't bother reading your OP.

You have said everything I wanted you to in this one as well now so I am pretty much done talking with the lone tard ranger of this forum.

There are much more knowledgeable and interesting fans here to discuss with so why would I bother with a autist who think GGG dodged BJS?

tonymaccaroni wrote:

verlichte wrote:

tonymaccaroni wrote:All I wanted him to do is hear him directly say what he was implying from his initial post, that GGG dodged BJS, which he did. He even went on to make post calling BJS the 'most avoided middleweight in the world', which is laughable. Who avoided him as a tough fight? GGG went for a tougher fight so how is that a dodge lol?

You're showing your lack of knowledge and intellect kid.

If you'd clicked on the hyperlinks that I supplied within the thread that you're referring to, you'll find that the thread title I used was precisely the same as the article being quoted. Dumb bástárd!

The fact that you refrain from actually reading and comprehending my words, makes it so much easier for me to dismiss your entirely fictional arguments, since you’re attacking claims that I have never made.

You’re a bit like an obsessive dog chasing a shadow… under the pretence that there is a physical object that you can grasp, which clearly doesn’t exist!

Yeah i mean your right I didn't read your post. Why would I? Why would anyone read your crap? I just read the title and thought full autism has been achieved and discussed points with other more sane members of the forum. I even said in my post in your tard thread, that I didn't bother reading your OP.

You have said everything I wanted you to in this one as well now so I am pretty much done talking with the lone tard ranger of this forum.

There are much more knowledgeable and interesting fans here to discuss with so why would I bother with a autist who think GGG dodged BJS?

You’ll find that the vast majority of my threads and posts contain factually-correct information, which is usually supported with evidence to justify my claims, in the form of videos, interview transcripts etc.

It’s your prerogative to only digest the information conveyed by fellow casual fans, but to criticise my posts, whilst admitting that you don’t actually read them, is utterly moronic.

If real-world irrefutable facts cause you great offence, to the point of becoming emotionally distressed, then a sensitive soul like you should really consider following a different sport.