BoxRec

I think Orlin Norris and Qawi would have bashed David Haye.

Carlos DeLeon

I'll add another vote for Daffy Haye

I bet asdfjkl is having a meltdown reading this

Haye was definitely the best Cruiserweight ever... His biggest problem has been over-training to the point where he suffers injuries.

world ranked wrote:

Autobarn wrote:

world ranked wrote:Got to be David Haye unified the division. I guess based on either talent or resume. Resume got to be Haye. Talent maybe Toney the last 20 years has been some really good ones.

Haye was very good. Shame he lifted weights and bulked himself out of the division. Three consecutive terrific wins. All by stoppage. Fragomeni, in their bloody and exhausting battle; Mormeck in the dramatic up and downer in France; and blasting out Enzo Maccarinelli in the big U.K. unification.

Adamek also had three fine wins at the weight and won lineal honours. Didn't have Haye's size and athleticism but more solid all round, more stamina and durability - responded far better to big shots - and the more technically correct.

Both did outstanding work before pursuing heavyweight delusions and both have as case as #2 cruiserweight in my view. They got on with it in the meaningful fights and didn't mess about.

I know Adamek beat Cunningham who was his other big wins a cruiserweights.

Prospect Jon Banks, unbeaten and with a heavyweight punch (see his W over Seth Mitchell) and former undisputed cruiserweight champ, the gladiator O'Neil Bell.


Disconcerted at all the votes for Marco Huck, a limited lump who benefited from fighting in Germany although to his credit he had some good fights.

Autobarn wrote:

world ranked wrote:

Autobarn wrote: Haye was very good. Shame he lifted weights and bulked himself out of the division. Three consecutive terrific wins. All by stoppage. Fragomeni, in their bloody and exhausting battle; Mormeck in the dramatic up and downer in France; and blasting out Enzo Maccarinelli in the big U.K. unification.

Adamek also had three fine wins at the weight and won lineal honours. Didn't have Haye's size and athleticism but more solid all round, more stamina and durability - responded far better to big shots - and the more technically correct.

Both did outstanding work before pursuing heavyweight delusions and both have as case as #2 cruiserweight in my view. They got on with it in the meaningful fights and didn't mess about.

I know Adamek beat Cunningham who was his other big wins a cruiserweights.

Prospect Jon Banks, unbeaten and with a heavyweight punch (see his W over Seth Mitchell) and former undisputed cruiserweight champ, the gladiator O'Neil Bell.


Disconcerted at all the votes for Marco Huck, a limited lump who benefited from fighting in Germany although to his credit he had some good fights.

Ok yeah I still it think it was Haye. Mormeck, Enzo, and some others. His wins where bigger imo. Banks wasn't proven the Cunningham wins were great for Adamek Bell was done when Adamek fought him. I would rate Cunningham as #3 he actually beat Huck and some other good wins as well.

Tuan_Jim wrote:I think Orlin Norris and Qawi would have bashed David Haye.

I strongly agree and Carlos DeLeon would have bashed David Haye as well in my opinion.

world ranked wrote:

Autobarn wrote:

world ranked wrote:
I know Adamek beat Cunningham who was his other big wins a cruiserweights.

Prospect Jon Banks, unbeaten and with a heavyweight punch (see his W over Seth Mitchell) and former undisputed cruiserweight champ, the gladiator O'Neil Bell.


Disconcerted at all the votes for Marco Huck, a limited lump who benefited from fighting in Germany although to his credit he had some good fights.

Ok yeah I still it think it was Haye. Mormeck, Enzo, and some others. His wins where bigger imo. Banks wasn't proven the Cunningham wins were great for Adamek Bell was done when Adamek fought him. I would rate Cunningham as #3 he actually beat Huck and some other good wins as well.

Bell was perhaps "done" by Adamek who boxed an outstanding fight, showing extra versatility at his new weight. Beautiful repertoire and side to side movement. I'd rate Bell as equal to Mormeck, as they were 1-1, Bell winning the stoppage but losing a controversial rematch on points. The late Bell was one of the best gladiators in boxing, true never say die fighter. An A,erican-Jamaican Carl Thompson (Thompson who broke the heart of Haye aft losing his own title). To make him retire during the fight was some achievement for Adamek. Banks was unproven but dangerous and with a heavyweight punch and a big cruiserweight. I was truly impressed how Adamek took the huge right from Banks, rebounded off the ropes due to the shot's huge velocity. Then, Just stayed cool, clinched through the bad round, got back to his boxing, lined up the right cross-left hook combo and finished brutally a few rounds later. Chin, stamina, maturity, calm, power. Ice cold. The Cunningham fight, yes, one of the cruiserweight division's epics, a white hot battle, and Cunningham as we know had clowned and battered Marco Huck to take his unbeaten record.

Adamek and Haye both had only three major fights at the weight, it is such a shame. I do rate Haye's fights with Fragomeni, Mormeck (whom I won't say was "done") and Maccarinelli. But they were direct in going for important fights in a short time. Longer reigning champs could drag things out (Huck, Johnny Nelson). I rate them as equal based upon achievements. But I'd pick Adamek to beat him due to Adamek's chin, more solid technique and stamina. Terrible shame they wrecked their careers (or at the very least lost control over their careers with setbacks, beatings or injuries) moving up in weight

Autobarn wrote:

world ranked wrote:

Autobarn wrote: Prospect Jon Banks, unbeaten and with a heavyweight punch (see his W over Seth Mitchell) and former undisputed cruiserweight champ, the gladiator O'Neil Bell.


Disconcerted at all the votes for Marco Huck, a limited lump who benefited from fighting in Germany although to his credit he had some good fights.

Ok yeah I still it think it was Haye. Mormeck, Enzo, and some others. His wins where bigger imo. Banks wasn't proven the Cunningham wins were great for Adamek Bell was done when Adamek fought him. I would rate Cunningham as #3 he actually beat Huck and some other good wins as well.

Bell was perhaps "done" by Adamek who boxed an outstanding fight, showing extra versatility at his new weight. Beautiful repertoire and side to side movement. I'd rate Bell as equal to Mormeck, as they were 1-1, Bell winning the stoppage but losing a controversial rematch on points. The late Bell was one of the best gladiators in boxing, true never say die fighter. An A,erican-Jamaican Carl Thompson (Thompson who broke the heart of Haye aft losing his own title). To make him retire during the fight was some achievement for Adamek. Banks was unproven but dangerous and with a heavyweight punch and a big cruiserweight. I was truly impressed how Adamek took the huge right from Banks, rebounded off the ropes due to the shot's huge velocity. Then, Just stayed cool, clinched through the bad round, got back to his boxing, lined up the right cross-left hook combo and finished brutally a few rounds later. Chin, stamina, maturity, calm, power. Ice cold. The Cunningham fight, yes, one of the cruiserweight division's epics, a white hot battle, and Cunningham as we know had clowned and battered Marco Huck to take his unbeaten record.

Adamek and Haye both had only three major fights at the weight, it is such a shame. I do rate Haye's fights with Fragomeni, Mormeck (whom I won't say was "done") and Maccarinelli. But they were direct in going for important fights in a short time. Longer reigning champs could drag things out (Huck, Johnny Nelson). I rate them as equal based upon achievements. But I'd pick Adamek to beat him due to Adamek's chin, more solid technique and stamina. Terrible shame they wrecked their careers (or at the very least lost control over their careers with setbacks, beatings or injuries) moving up in weight

Adamek-Banks and the O'Neil Bell fight weren't major fights. Bell fight wasn't expect to be anything Bell was done at that point. Banks was unproven and never was a name in this division. None of Adamek fights were as big as the Haye-Enzo fight.

Also O'Neil Bell unified cruiserweight, the first since Holyfield, by knocking out Mormeck in their 2006 classic. Bell was given little chance as he'd won the IBF title controversially against Dale Brown, a JMM KO victim. Although Ring magazine had Bell winning and felt his excellent body attack had been ignored.

Also had to fight two eliminators for the world title.

And waged savage battles with Arthur Williams, Kelvin Davis, Sebastian Rothmann.

Blasted out good fighters Ezra Sellers & Derrick Harmon and beat another good southpaw, Jason Robinson all in non title fights. Was doing good work even before he became champion.

The man is leagues ahead in terms of willing of, say, Huck & Johnny Nelson with their gaudy # of title defenses.

Has to be a candidate for #2 spot.

world ranked wrote:

Autobarn wrote:

world ranked wrote:
Ok yeah I still it think it was Haye. Mormeck, Enzo, and some others. His wins where bigger imo. Banks wasn't proven the Cunningham wins were great for Adamek Bell was done when Adamek fought him. I would rate Cunningham as #3 he actually beat Huck and some other good wins as well.

Bell was perhaps "done" by Adamek who boxed an outstanding fight, showing extra versatility at his new weight. Beautiful repertoire and side to side movement. I'd rate Bell as equal to Mormeck, as they were 1-1, Bell winning the stoppage but losing a controversial rematch on points. The late Bell was one of the best gladiators in boxing, true never say die fighter. An A,erican-Jamaican Carl Thompson (Thompson who broke the heart of Haye aft losing his own title). To make him retire during the fight was some achievement for Adamek. Banks was unproven but dangerous and with a heavyweight punch and a big cruiserweight. I was truly impressed how Adamek took the huge right from Banks, rebounded off the ropes due to the shot's huge velocity. Then, Just stayed cool, clinched through the bad round, got back to his boxing, lined up the right cross-left hook combo and finished brutally a few rounds later. Chin, stamina, maturity, calm, power. Ice cold. The Cunningham fight, yes, one of the cruiserweight division's epics, a white hot battle, and Cunningham as we know had clowned and battered Marco Huck to take his unbeaten record.

Adamek and Haye both had only three major fights at the weight, it is such a shame. I do rate Haye's fights with Fragomeni, Mormeck (whom I won't say was "done") and Maccarinelli. But they were direct in going for important fights in a short time. Longer reigning champs could drag things out (Huck, Johnny Nelson). I rate them as equal based upon achievements. But I'd pick Adamek to beat him due to Adamek's chin, more solid technique and stamina. Terrible shame they wrecked their careers (or at the very least lost control over their careers with setbacks, beatings or injuries) moving up in weight

Adamek-Banks and the O'Neil Bell fight weren't major fights. Bell fight wasn't expect to be anything Bell was done at that point. Banks was unproven and never was a name in this division. None of Adamek fights were as big as the Haye-Enzo fight.

bell was a former undisputed champion who'd barely lost his title. He barely lost his title to Mormeck, in France in a controversial rematch, and was still highly regarded. He may not have been as badly physically damaged by their battles as Mormeck was. Bell is also the only guy to unify cruiserweight since Holyfield. This is a major scalp and Adamek - considered damaged goods at light heavy and unproven at cruiser - but on a well rounded masterclass of subtle movement and punch repertoire. It really is a superb win over a major scalp.

Jon Banks was a dangerous prospect. There's always a glamour to taking someone's 0. It took an American name to get Adamek the Showtime (ShoBox TV date). Banks had some motivation and conditioning issues in the past. But he boxed superbly well, with good timing, proved he deserved his stage, and had a heavyweight punch (when he destroyed HW Prospect Seth Mitchell). Adamek showed a lot in this fight, gradually stripped Banks of his assets and then iced him brutally.

You can pick holes in anyone, I give Adamek credit for Bell, Cunningham, Banks. And Haye credit for Fragomeni, Mormeck and Enzo. Frago future WBC champ, and his fight with Haye is underrated. But we can pick holes, Frago was a blown up light heavy and turned pro Old. Mormeck the undisputed champ, but on an empty gas tank, stamina problem for years. Enzo a big puncher, but ridiculed for his terrible opposition of title defenses. Enzo a complete disappointment on fight night, didn't step it up. Could call it a glorified domestic fight. And Haye's top fights were all European. I felt Adamek picked a lot up fighting Americans.

Autobarn wrote:

world ranked wrote:

Autobarn wrote: Bell was perhaps "done" by Adamek who boxed an outstanding fight, showing extra versatility at his new weight. Beautiful repertoire and side to side movement. I'd rate Bell as equal to Mormeck, as they were 1-1, Bell winning the stoppage but losing a controversial rematch on points. The late Bell was one of the best gladiators in boxing, true never say die fighter. An A,erican-Jamaican Carl Thompson (Thompson who broke the heart of Haye aft losing his own title). To make him retire during the fight was some achievement for Adamek. Banks was unproven but dangerous and with a heavyweight punch and a big cruiserweight. I was truly impressed how Adamek took the huge right from Banks, rebounded off the ropes due to the shot's huge velocity. Then, Just stayed cool, clinched through the bad round, got back to his boxing, lined up the right cross-left hook combo and finished brutally a few rounds later. Chin, stamina, maturity, calm, power. Ice cold. The Cunningham fight, yes, one of the cruiserweight division's epics, a white hot battle, and Cunningham as we know had clowned and battered Marco Huck to take his unbeaten record.

Adamek and Haye both had only three major fights at the weight, it is such a shame. I do rate Haye's fights with Fragomeni, Mormeck (whom I won't say was "done") and Maccarinelli. But they were direct in going for important fights in a short time. Longer reigning champs could drag things out (Huck, Johnny Nelson). I rate them as equal based upon achievements. But I'd pick Adamek to beat him due to Adamek's chin, more solid technique and stamina. Terrible shame they wrecked their careers (or at the very least lost control over their careers with setbacks, beatings or injuries) moving up in weight

Adamek-Banks and the O'Neil Bell fight weren't major fights. Bell fight wasn't expect to be anything Bell was done at that point. Banks was unproven and never was a name in this division. None of Adamek fights were as big as the Haye-Enzo fight.

bell was a former undisputed champion who'd barely lost his title. He barely lost his title to Mormeck, in France in a controversial rematch, and was still highly regarded. He may not have been as badly physically damaged by their battles as Mormeck was. Bell is also the only guy to unify cruiserweight since Holyfield. This is a major scalp and Adamek - considered damaged goods at light heavy and unproven at cruiser - but on a well rounded masterclass of subtle movement and punch repertoire. It really is a superb win over a major scalp.

Jon Banks was a dangerous prospect. There's always a glamour to taking someone's 0. It took an American name to get Adamek the Showtime (ShoBox TV date). Banks had some motivation and conditioning issues in the past. But he boxed superbly well, with good timing, proved he deserved his stage, and had a heavyweight punch (when he destroyed HW Prospect Seth Mitchell). Adamek showed a lot in this fight, gradually stripped Banks of his assets and then iced him brutally.

You can pick holes in anyone, I give Adamek credit for Bell, Cunningham, Banks. And Haye credit for Fragomeni, Mormeck and Enzo. Frago future WBC champ, and his fight with Haye is underrated. But we can pick holes, Frago was a blown up light heavy and turned pro Old. Mormeck the undisputed champ, but on an empty gas tank, stamina problem for years. Enzo a big puncher, but ridiculed for his terrible opposition of title defenses. Enzo a complete disappointment on fight night, didn't step it up. Could call it a glorified domestic fight. And Haye's top fights were all European. I felt Adamek picked a lot up fighting Americans.

Banks is not known for anything for your argument other than being undefeated didn't beat anyone of note up until that point. Bell was a good win in name only looking at what he did after Adamek he was done. The Cunningham win for me is the best win either had but Haye unified and beat several other champs. Adamek had been on TV several times prior to Banks at 175. Adamek was a known commodity at that time so facing Banks wasn't the reason he got that TV date. Like you said both have holes in the resume. A case can be made for both and a few others.

Banks was a big puncher and would score a significant KO victory up at heavyweight over Mitchell. His size, talent and boxing ability made him a very worthy challenger. Actually watching the fight, not just looking on paper, he acquitted himself superbly well against Adamek. Really looked the part of the Kronk sharp shooter. By comparison, with the Haye victories I like, Fragomeni punched like a light heavyweight, more than a cruiser and Enzo Macca would take refuge down at 175.

O'Neil Bell is a massive scalp - considering what he did before and during his scorching run as 200-pound champion - especially for someone unproven as a cruiserweight as Tomasz Adamek was. No doubt Bell AND Mormeck left something in the ring during their classic rivalry especially the rematch in the French heat - but I would argue that Mormeck took by far the more punishment in their 22 rounds of action. Adamek was a revitalised, reinvented fighter at cruiserweight and may have surprised Bell.

These are not nondescript victories, like more prolific cruiserweight champions such as Huck etc would have on a regular basis. I really like the Polish fighter facing American opposition, learning different styles and techniques. I really felt the diversity helped him, developed him into a more well rounded fighter than David Haye. I would've picked Adamek over Haye. Haye, faster and more powerful but suspect over the12 rounds (check out that WEIRD fight with Ismael Abdoul where Haye threw about 10 punches a round in order to conserve energy) and with a questionable chin.

I regard both Haye and Adamek as elite fighters. I wish they stayed at 200-pounds, with the division limit raised from 190-200 pounds there's no solid reason for them to move up as smaller, vulnerable heavyweights. This is the only weight where both men were elite level fighters. Adamek was a solid light heavy, had those two astonishing wars with Paul Briggs but looked too sluggish against a slick fighter, Dawson. Haye picking up heavyweight title belt but showing little conviction as a heavyweight. Adamek had that quality W over Arreola but never effective after that fight. Extra weight slowed him down and lack of punch killed him over 200-pounds.

world ranked wrote:

Autobarn wrote:

world ranked wrote:
Adamek-Banks and the O'Neil Bell fight weren't major fights. Bell fight wasn't expect to be anything Bell was done at that point. Banks was unproven and never was a name in this division. None of Adamek fights were as big as the Haye-Enzo fight.

bell was a former undisputed champion who'd barely lost his title. He barely lost his title to Mormeck, in France in a controversial rematch, and was still highly regarded. He may not have been as badly physically damaged by their battles as Mormeck was. Bell is also the only guy to unify cruiserweight since Holyfield. This is a major scalp and Adamek - considered damaged goods at light heavy and unproven at cruiser - but on a well rounded masterclass of subtle movement and punch repertoire. It really is a superb win over a major scalp.

Jon Banks was a dangerous prospect. There's always a glamour to taking someone's 0. It took an American name to get Adamek the Showtime (ShoBox TV date). Banks had some motivation and conditioning issues in the past. But he boxed superbly well, with good timing, proved he deserved his stage, and had a heavyweight punch (when he destroyed HW Prospect Seth Mitchell). Adamek showed a lot in this fight, gradually stripped Banks of his assets and then iced him brutally.

You can pick holes in anyone, I give Adamek credit for Bell, Cunningham, Banks. And Haye credit for Fragomeni, Mormeck and Enzo. Frago future WBC champ, and his fight with Haye is underrated. But we can pick holes, Frago was a blown up light heavy and turned pro Old. Mormeck the undisputed champ, but on an empty gas tank, stamina problem for years. Enzo a big puncher, but ridiculed for his terrible opposition of title defenses. Enzo a complete disappointment on fight night, didn't step it up. Could call it a glorified domestic fight. And Haye's top fights were all European. I felt Adamek picked a lot up fighting Americans.

Banks is not known for anything for your argument other than being undefeated didn't beat anyone of note up until that point. Bell was a good win in name only looking at what he did after Adamek he was done. The Cunningham win for me is the best win either had but Haye unified and beat several other champs. Adamek had been on TV several times prior to Banks at 175. Adamek was a known commodity at that time so facing Banks wasn't the reason he got that TV date. Like you said both have holes in the resume. A case can be made for both and a few others.

bit harsh, that! Bell had about 3 years off after Adamek losing by KO to Hall

Also I'd maintain that Adamek got the TV date largely down to Banks as the series they were fighting on was Shobox: The New Generation, which featured serious US prospects mostly.

Adamek had been the HBO undercard continue using his epic rivalry with Paul Briggs, on the undercard to th sideshow that was. Alive v Monte Barrett.

Adamek v Cunningham was on VS, and I think fighting good American fighters helped his cause a great deal.

When the full effects of the recession were felt, he was fighting Bobby Gunn on some obscure PPV channel. Then the sad sideshow Adamek v Golota, ugh, and the rest is history.

Adamek keep should've gone to Germany.

Autobarn wrote:

world ranked wrote:

Autobarn wrote: Prospect Jon Banks, unbeaten and with a heavyweight punch (see his W over Seth Mitchell) and former undisputed cruiserweight champ, the gladiator O'Neil Bell.


Disconcerted at all the votes for Marco Huck, a limited lump who benefited from fighting in Germany although to his credit he had some good fights.

Ok yeah I still it think it was Haye. Mormeck, Enzo, and some others. His wins where bigger imo. Banks wasn't proven the Cunningham wins were great for Adamek Bell was done when Adamek fought him. I would rate Cunningham as #3 he actually beat Huck and some other good wins as well.

Bell was perhaps "done" by Adamek who boxed an outstanding fight, showing extra versatility at his new weight. Beautiful repertoire and side to side movement. I'd rate Bell as equal to Mormeck, as they were 1-1, Bell winning the stoppage but losing a controversial rematch on points. The late Bell was one of the best gladiators in boxing, true never say die fighter. An A,erican-Jamaican Carl Thompson (Thompson who broke the heart of Haye aft losing his own title). To make him retire during the fight was some achievement for Adamek. Banks was unproven but dangerous and with a heavyweight punch and a big cruiserweight. I was truly impressed how Adamek took the huge right from Banks, rebounded off the ropes due to the shot's huge velocity. Then, Just stayed cool, clinched through the bad round, got back to his boxing, lined up the right cross-left hook combo and finished brutally a few rounds later. Chin, stamina, maturity, calm, power. Ice cold. The Cunningham fight, yes, one of the cruiserweight division's epics, a white hot battle, and Cunningham as we know had clowned and battered Marco Huck to take his unbeaten record.

Adamek and Haye both had only three major fights at the weight, it is such a shame. I do rate Haye's fights with Fragomeni, Mormeck (whom I won't say was "done") and Maccarinelli. But they were direct in going for important fights in a short time. Longer reigning champs could drag things out (Huck, Johnny Nelson). I rate them as equal based upon achievements. But I'd pick Adamek to beat him due to Adamek's chin, more solid technique and stamina. Terrible shame they wrecked their careers (or at the very least lost control over their careers with setbacks, beatings or injuries) moving up in weight

It's an incorrect statement to say Carl Thompson broke David Hayes heart.

Haye is throw punches till the referee stops the fight. He doesn't quit, no towels thrown in, he doesn't jack the fight. The simple matter is he was blasting everybody out early, hurt Thompson early, couldn't get rid of him, and punched himself out. Thompson, hard as they come came back and beat on and fuel empty Haye.

Broken heart doesn't come into it

I'd take haye over adamek every day

Ossyrules wrote:

Autobarn wrote:

world ranked wrote:
Ok yeah I still it think it was Haye. Mormeck, Enzo, and some others. His wins where bigger imo. Banks wasn't proven the Cunningham wins were great for Adamek Bell was done when Adamek fought him. I would rate Cunningham as #3 he actually beat Huck and some other good wins as well.

Bell was perhaps "done" by Adamek who boxed an outstanding fight, showing extra versatility at his new weight. Beautiful repertoire and side to side movement. I'd rate Bell as equal to Mormeck, as they were 1-1, Bell winning the stoppage but losing a controversial rematch on points. The late Bell was one of the best gladiators in boxing, true never say die fighter. An A,erican-Jamaican Carl Thompson (Thompson who broke the heart of Haye aft losing his own title). To make him retire during the fight was some achievement for Adamek. Banks was unproven but dangerous and with a heavyweight punch and a big cruiserweight. I was truly impressed how Adamek took the huge right from Banks, rebounded off the ropes due to the shot's huge velocity. Then, Just stayed cool, clinched through the bad round, got back to his boxing, lined up the right cross-left hook combo and finished brutally a few rounds later. Chin, stamina, maturity, calm, power. Ice cold. The Cunningham fight, yes, one of the cruiserweight division's epics, a white hot battle, and Cunningham as we know had clowned and battered Marco Huck to take his unbeaten record.

Adamek and Haye both had only three major fights at the weight, it is such a shame. I do rate Haye's fights with Fragomeni, Mormeck (whom I won't say was "done") and Maccarinelli. But they were direct in going for important fights in a short time. Longer reigning champs could drag things out (Huck, Johnny Nelson). I rate them as equal based upon achievements. But I'd pick Adamek to beat him due to Adamek's chin, more solid technique and stamina. Terrible shame they wrecked their careers (or at the very least lost control over their careers with setbacks, beatings or injuries) moving up in weight

It's an incorrect statement to say Carl Thompson broke David Hayes heart.

Haye is throw punches till the referee stops the fight. He doesn't quit, no towels thrown in, he doesn't jack the fight. The simple matter is he was blasting everybody out early, hurt Thompson early, couldn't get rid of him, and punched himself out. Thompson, hard as they come came back and beat on and fuel empty Haye.

Broken heart doesn't come into it

all the conviction went out of Haye when Thompson settled into the fight.

I'd take Adamek to weather hellacious punishment, stay composed, work gradually into the fight and either take his man out late or score enough late knockdowns to grind out a win. Adamek the much better fighter over the distance.

Autobarn wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:

Autobarn wrote: Bell was perhaps "done" by Adamek who boxed an outstanding fight, showing extra versatility at his new weight. Beautiful repertoire and side to side movement. I'd rate Bell as equal to Mormeck, as they were 1-1, Bell winning the stoppage but losing a controversial rematch on points. The late Bell was one of the best gladiators in boxing, true never say die fighter. An A,erican-Jamaican Carl Thompson (Thompson who broke the heart of Haye aft losing his own title). To make him retire during the fight was some achievement for Adamek. Banks was unproven but dangerous and with a heavyweight punch and a big cruiserweight. I was truly impressed how Adamek took the huge right from Banks, rebounded off the ropes due to the shot's huge velocity. Then, Just stayed cool, clinched through the bad round, got back to his boxing, lined up the right cross-left hook combo and finished brutally a few rounds later. Chin, stamina, maturity, calm, power. Ice cold. The Cunningham fight, yes, one of the cruiserweight division's epics, a white hot battle, and Cunningham as we know had clowned and battered Marco Huck to take his unbeaten record.

Adamek and Haye both had only three major fights at the weight, it is such a shame. I do rate Haye's fights with Fragomeni, Mormeck (whom I won't say was "done") and Maccarinelli. But they were direct in going for important fights in a short time. Longer reigning champs could drag things out (Huck, Johnny Nelson). I rate them as equal based upon achievements. But I'd pick Adamek to beat him due to Adamek's chin, more solid technique and stamina. Terrible shame they wrecked their careers (or at the very least lost control over their careers with setbacks, beatings or injuries) moving up in weight

It's an incorrect statement to say Carl Thompson broke David Hayes heart.

Haye is throw punches till the referee stops the fight. He doesn't quit, no towels thrown in, he doesn't jack the fight. The simple matter is he was blasting everybody out early, hurt Thompson early, couldn't get rid of him, and punched himself out. Thompson, hard as they come came back and beat on and fuel empty Haye.

Broken heart doesn't come into it

all the conviction went out of Haye when Thompson settled into the fight.

I'd take Adamek to weather hellacious punishment, stay composed, work gradually into the fight and either take his man out late or score enough late knockdowns to grind out a win. Adamek the much better fighter over the distance.

I think adamek could do that to early haye, but the lesson haye learnt from Thompson about pacing himself through a fight and that not every bodies gonna be knocked over quick, I think Hayes too athletic and powerful for adamek. It'd be a tough fight but Hayes got too many advantages for me.

Disagree on your Haye vs Thompson assessment.

Autobarn wrote:

world ranked wrote:

Autobarn wrote:bell was a former undisputed champion who'd barely lost his title. He barely lost his title to Mormeck, in France in a controversial rematch, and was still highly regarded. He may not have been as badly physically damaged by their battles as Mormeck was. Bell is also the only guy to unify cruiserweight since Holyfield. This is a major scalp and Adamek - considered damaged goods at light heavy and unproven at cruiser - but on a well rounded masterclass of subtle movement and punch repertoire. It really is a superb win over a major scalp.

Jon Banks was a dangerous prospect. There's always a glamour to taking someone's 0. It took an American name to get Adamek the Showtime (ShoBox TV date). Banks had some motivation and conditioning issues in the past. But he boxed superbly well, with good timing, proved he deserved his stage, and had a heavyweight punch (when he destroyed HW Prospect Seth Mitchell). Adamek showed a lot in this fight, gradually stripped Banks of his assets and then iced him brutally.

You can pick holes in anyone, I give Adamek credit for Bell, Cunningham, Banks. And Haye credit for Fragomeni, Mormeck and Enzo. Frago future WBC champ, and his fight with Haye is underrated. But we can pick holes, Frago was a blown up light heavy and turned pro Old. Mormeck the undisputed champ, but on an empty gas tank, stamina problem for years. Enzo a big puncher, but ridiculed for his terrible opposition of title defenses. Enzo a complete disappointment on fight night, didn't step it up. Could call it a glorified domestic fight. And Haye's top fights were all European. I felt Adamek picked a lot up fighting Americans.

Banks is not known for anything for your argument other than being undefeated didn't beat anyone of note up until that point. Bell was a good win in name only looking at what he did after Adamek he was done. The Cunningham win for me is the best win either had but Haye unified and beat several other champs. Adamek had been on TV several times prior to Banks at 175. Adamek was a known commodity at that time so facing Banks wasn't the reason he got that TV date. Like you said both have holes in the resume. A case can be made for both and a few others.

bit harsh, that! Bell had about 3 years off after Adamek losing by KO to Hall

Also I'd maintain that Adamek got the TV date largely down to Banks as the series they were fighting on was Shobox: The New Generation, which featured serious US prospects mostly.

Adamek had been the HBO undercard continue using his epic rivalry with Paul Briggs, on the undercard to th sideshow that was. Alive v Monte Barrett.

Adamek v Cunningham was on VS, and I think fighting good American fighters helped his cause a great deal.

When the full effects of the recession were felt, he was fighting Bobby Gunn on some obscure PPV channel. Then the sad sideshow Adamek v Golota, ugh, and the rest is history.

Adamek keep should've gone to Germany.

Forgot the Dawson fight as well though so he was a known commodity. Adamek did what every cruiserweight does get that heavyweight itch. Thought I agree US fighters help his profile but Banks wasn't one of them other than the KO. I think Briggs, Dawson and Cunnigham were his profile fights.

I'll say Toney as well. In fact, if he would have just stayed at CW he may have never lost again, and completely blown out the entire CW division. But the allure and money of HW was too much. And when he was fit as an HW he still did very well.

Autobarn wrote:I'd take Adamek to weather hellacious punishment, stay composed, work gradually into the fight and either take his man out late or score enough late knockdowns to grind out a win. Adamek the much better fighter over the distance.

Adamek didn't match Haye as a boxer..A 40-year-old Vitali Klitschko dominated Adamek every round and stopped him.. Adamek barely beat gigantic Michael Grant who Dominic Guinn completely finessed at his best.. The Haye who crushed Chisora was the best Haye.. He had too much skill, speed, and too many weapons for Adamek.. Jonathan Banks?? GTFO.. An ancient Antonio Tarver destroyed Banks.. I liked Adamek's work against Chris Arreola.. It wasn't as good as Bermane Stiverne's work.. Haye was a couple levels above Adamek.