BoxRec

candyslim wrote:No need to re-evaluate my comments at all as I'm sure you'd appreciate had you read them properly before launching into your trademark arrogant dismissal :

What is "funny" is that Joshua going for broke almost cost him the fight, whereas Klitschko's failure to go for broke in the 6th almost certainly cost him the fight. On the face of it that seems like a paradox, no?

I went on to explain that there was nothing actually funny or paradoxical at al,l because it's all a question of knowing when and when not to unleash your intended final assault.

Of course Klitschko launched his assault in the 6th when Joshua was tired and vulnerable, but it was unsuccessful because he did not go for broke when Joshua was there for the taking. That could be because Klitschko's naturally cautious persona meant that he did not want to fully commit his reserves of energy in pursuit of the stoppage in case he was unsuccessful as Joshua had been (whether he wouldn't) or maybe at 41 years of age and having taken quite a shellacking himself in the previous round, he didn't have sufficient strength / energy to finish the job i.e. (whether he couldn't). The point being that Joshua should not have survived the round.

If you still think I need to re-evaluate my comments ... I'm listening

Klitschko actually tried to force a stoppage during the sixth round, he just didn't approach it in a reckless manner like Joshua's failed attempt during the fifth round, partly due to experience, physical inability due to his age and mostly because he was exhausted and still recovering from the events that took place during the previous round.

Regardless, my explanation for Anthony Joshua's fatigue for several rounds of the Klitschko bout are accurate.

I didn't deny that EO, it was you that obviously took great exception to something (you thought) I said and to be honest, having read the exchanges once again, I'm still not clear as to what set you off.

As far as I can tell we were/are largely in agreement

candyslim wrote:I didn't deny that EO, it was you that obviously took great exception to something (you thought) I said and to be honest, having read the exchanges once again, I'm still not clear as to what set you off.

As far as I can tell we were/are largely in agreement

It didn't take great exception to anything you wrote, I only believed that the events that took place during the fifth and sixth rounds were not similar, meaning that it's not appropriate to compare the actions of Joshua and Klitschko when they had their opponent in trouble.

We do basically agree on most points though.

Ok . Glad we cleared that up.

candyslim wrote:Ok . Glad we cleared that up.

I agree that Klitschko being vastly more experienced, took a much more measured approach to finishing Joshua than that AJ exhibited the previous round. There can be little doubt with the benefit of hindsight that AJ was ripe for the picking in round 6, whereas in round 5 Klitschko was nowhere near being a spent force and Joshua's all-out attack was ill-advised / premature.

Given that Wlad's measured approach to finishing Joshua was ultimately unsuccessful, the obvious question is could Klitschko have stopped AJ if he had been less mature and sensible, and thrown caution to the winds as Joshua had?

Klitschko did not take his opportunity and I suggested two alternatives for that, either it's not in his nature to risk everything on one roll of the dice or he was too spent to summon the required energy to finish the out-on-his feet Joshua. There is a third explanation which was my initial thought during and after the fight, and that is that Wlad was convinced he had defused the weapon that was Joshua, saw no possibility of Joshua recovering any offensive capability (I certainly saw no way back for AJ in round 6 through 8) and decided there was no immediate urgency. It even occurred to me that Wlad, certain that he had the fight won, saw no need to humiliate his "little bro" in front of 90,000 of his adoring fans but that may be a bit fanciful on my part.

Kalan thinks AJ was just too good for Klitschko but I can't accept that. AJ didn't have the strength in round 6 to raise his hands, and as massively biased towards AJ as I am, I am sure that if Klitschko had the energy / mentality to really go for it in the sixth he'd have stopped him. I believe that Joshua at his peak will prove to be even better than Klitschko at his peak. I believe that Joshua at 27 years old is better than Klitschko at 27 years old. I believe that Joshua after 19 fights is better than Klitschko after 19 fights, I believe that Joshua now is better than Klitschko is now, but I don't believe that Joshua now is better than Klitschko was at his peak and that is why I don't like Kalan's description of AJ being "too good" for Klitschko even though it's probably correct to say that.

Enlightened-One wrote: There are people that frequent this forum that don’t truly understand the sport of boxing

For once, some self awareness.

CaptainSpacerod wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote: There are people that frequent this forum that don’t truly understand the sport of boxing

For once, some self awareness.

You’re a fúckíng prick!

I don't think Joshua, or any one else in boxing gives a rat's arse what Laila Ali thinks

Enlightened-One wrote:

CaptainSpacerod wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote: There are people that frequent this forum that don’t truly understand the sport of boxing

For once, some self awareness.

You’re a fúckíng prick!

Devastatingly witty response, touche

boxingknockout wrote:I don't think Joshua, or any one else in boxing gives a rat's arse what Laila Ali thinks

A fair assessment, that.

@Capt. SR + EO : Sorry guys but your quip and the succinct retort it provoked really gave me a good laugh

Kalan wrote:

Best Coast wrote:THIS QUOTE WAS ACTUALLY WRITTEN BY "ENLIGHTENED ONE"
1) AJ had unnecessarily gained weight due to only competing in two fights over ten months

2) Joshua is still a novice, which means his stamina management was poor

3) Anthony’s naivety and poor strategy compelled him to “put all of his eggs into one basket”, by going for broke in the fifth round in a desperate attempt to stop his Ukrainian foe, but he didn’t expect Klitschko to withstand the onslaught and return fire with equal venom in the very next round ...

... Mo Farrah is possibly the world’s best 10K runner in athletics, but if he tried to run that distance at full pelt, much akin to Usain Bolt doing 100m, then he’d be exhausted by 200m. A similar thing occurred to AJ at the end of the fifth round of his fight against Klitschko.

Simply put: the reason why AJ ran out of gas pretty early against Klitschko, was because: he was far too heavy; he’s inexperienced and didn’t manage his stamina very well; and also partly due to his poor strategy, by using 100% of his energy trying to force a stoppage.

You're wrong on all counts.. AJ came in at just the right weight.. Klitschko is a very big, tall, and powerful man.. Although Klitschko weighed in lighter than expected AJ can't predict what WK is going to do.. If Wlad came in very big and powerful AJ wanted to be able to match him in strength.

Joshua's stamina management was very good. It was right to go for the KO in the 5th because he almost won the fight right there.. He didn't use up 100% of his energy, he still held plenty in reserve.. You're going to be momentarily gassed in a fight now and then. It's going to happen. When Klitschko nailed AJ in the 6th, Josh had to switch hats.. He had to finesse a great finisher. He had to survive against a caliber of opponent he never fought before..

AJ defended well and didn't get nailed with another threatening blow. He slipped and ducked punches well. He was no Pulev who walked right into massive shots repeatedly and knocked himself out. AJ cleared his head, recovered his wind, and started to attack again in the 9th. In the 11th he turned it WAY up.. He drove Wladimir around the ring with a withering fusillade of head and body shots from every angle and finished him off... Brilliant.

You are attributing Enlightened One's quote to me. Since you both make some good points I'll let you two settle the debate yourselves...

Enlightened-One wrote:

Kalan wrote:

candyslim wrote:No need to re-evaluate my comments at all as I'm sure you'd appreciate had you read them properly before launching into your trademark arrogant dismissal :

What is "funny" is that Joshua going for broke almost cost him the fight, whereas Klitschko's failure to go for broke in the 6th almost certainly cost him the fight. On the face of it that seems like a paradox, no?

I went on to explain that there was nothing actually funny or paradoxical at al,l because it's all a question of knowing when and when not to unleash your intended final assault.

I think you're starting to get it actually... Joshua went for the finish because he had Wladimir down and hurt in the 5th round... Is there a better opportunity to go for the finish??? ...

Joshua went for the finish from the very start of the fifth round, at a time when Klitschko hadn't previously shown any difficulties dealing with AJ.

Wladimir only got decked because of the onslaught that he had to endure during the fifth round. Klitschko would not have been floored if the bout continued the way it had done during the previous four rounds.

There's no point in guessing your opinion... use your fûckîng eyeballs and watch the fight again!

Watch the fûckîng fight and revise your opinion! Either that or don't comment on things you've never seen.

You need a course in Boxing fundamentals.. If Wlad hadn't "shown any difficultly dealing with AJ" for 4 rounds it was high time to give him some difficulty.. It was time to get Wlad out... Joshua attacked Wladimir hard because the man has a vulnerable chin -- and the chances of getting him out early were excellent... Joshua is one of the greatest punchers and greatest finishers in the game -- so the plan was to get Wladimir KTFO of here.. Plan A doesn't always work Junior.. AJ transitioned smartly to Plan B.. He didn't get hit with any real tough follow up punches and he took a couple rounds off.. Then start taking the lead again and started to inflict real damage again.. In the 10th and 11th he got Wladimir on the hook and didn't let him escape.. There's always a chance you can lose this caliber of Heavyweight Title Fight.. The smart thing to do is take your chances to win -- or you might not.

Kalan wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:

Kalan wrote:
I think you're starting to get it actually... Joshua went for the finish because he had Wladimir down and hurt in the 5th round... Is there a better opportunity to go for the finish??? ...

Joshua went for the finish from the very start of the fifth round, at a time when Klitschko hadn't previously shown any difficulties dealing with AJ.

Wladimir only got decked because of the onslaught that he had to endure during the fifth round. Klitschko would not have been floored if the bout continued the way it had done during the previous four rounds.

There's no point in guessing your opinion... use your fûckîng eyeballs and watch the fight again!

Watch the fûckîng fight and revise your opinion! Either that or don't comment on things you've never seen.

You need a course in Boxing fundamentals.. If Wlad hadn't "shown any difficultly dealing with AJ" for 4 rounds it was high time to give him some difficulty.. It was time to get Wlad out... Joshua attacked Wladimir hard because the man has a vulnerable chin -- and the chances of getting him out early were excellent... Joshua is one of the greatest punchers and greatest finishers in the game -- so the plan was to get Wladimir KTFO of here.. Plan A doesn't always work Junior.. AJ transitioned smartly to Plan B.. He didn't get hit with any real tough follow up punches and he took a couple rounds off.. Then start taking the lead again and started to inflict real damage again.. In the 10th and 11th he got Wladimir on the hook and didn't let him escape.. There's always a chance you can lose this caliber of Heavyweight Title Fight.. The smart thing to do is take your chances to win -- or you might not.

I'm not engaging in a discussion about anything contained within your above reply, since it's simply a diversionary tactic with the sole intention to steer the topic of conversation away from the mistake you have made.

My initial gripe relates to your original assertion that Anthony Joshua only went for broke after Klitschko was floored, which was wrong.

Wladimir only got decked as a direct result of AJ impulsively going for broke from the very start of the fifth round.

Anyone that has watched the fight will surely appreciate how difficult it is to be wrong about this rather simple and easily observable fact.

Well you're really not too bright... Joshua was landing punches all through the round and following up his successes through the 5th...a 2-point round for him... You're implying Klitschko was too fresh to take chances against in round 5 -- like there was some ideal point in time for AJ to attack... Klitschko waited all night versus Fury... There's no ideal time to attack if you have the strongest offense.. When there're openings you throw.. And there was.

BTW Joshua wasn't "going for broke" in the 5th... You don't go all in, that early in a fight - and he didn't... But he mounted a strong offensive and it worked.

Anyone catch Ann Wolfe's cameo in Wonder Woman?

Funny you should ask that, err no.

zojo, wrote:Anyone catch Ann Wolfe's cameo in Wonder Woman?

I did. I can't believe that Wonder Woman got such a high rating on Rotten Tomatoes. It was an average movie. Batman v. Superman was a much better movie.

RScarf1 wrote:

zojo, wrote:Anyone catch Ann Wolfe's cameo in Wonder Woman?

I did. I can't believe that Wonder Woman got such a high rating on Rotten Tomatoes. It was an average movie. Batman v. Superman was a much better movie.

You know why. It was made by a woman and starred a woman.

CaptainSpacerod wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote: There are people that frequent this forum that don’t truly understand the sport of boxing

For once, some self awareness.

Kalan wrote:Well you're really not too bright... Joshua was landing punches all through the round and following up his successes through the 5th...a 2-point round for him... You're implying Klitschko was too fresh to take chances against in round 5 -- like there was some ideal point in time for AJ to attack... Klitschko waited all night versus Fury... There's no ideal time to attack if you have the strongest offense.. When there're openings you throw.. And there was.

BTW Joshua wasn't "going for broke" in the 5th... You don't go all in, that early in a fight - and he didn't... But he mounted a strong offensive and it worked.

You're accusing me of not being bright, but you keep providing irrelevant responses.

You believe what you want kid, it's your prerogative to ignore real-world video evidence if that's what rocks your boat.

lazboy wrote:

RScarf1 wrote:

zojo, wrote:Anyone catch Ann Wolfe's cameo in Wonder Woman?

I did. I can't believe that Wonder Woman got such a high rating on Rotten Tomatoes. It was an average movie. Batman v. Superman was a much better movie.

You know why. It was made by a woman and starred a woman.

Gal Gadot was great, but the female director apparently wrote the story too which was set in World War I.

Enlightened-One wrote:

Kalan wrote:Well you're really not too bright... Joshua was landing punches all through the round and following up his successes through the 5th...a 2-point round for him... You're implying Klitschko was too fresh to take chances against in round 5 -- like there was some ideal point in time for AJ to attack... Klitschko waited all night versus Fury... There's no ideal time to attack if you have the strongest offense.. When there're openings you throw.. And there was.

BTW Joshua wasn't "going for broke" in the 5th... You don't go all in, that early in a fight - and he didn't... But he mounted a strong offensive and it worked.

You're accusing me of not being bright, but you keep providing irrelevant responses.

You believe what you want kid, it's your prerogative to ignore real-world video evidence if that's what rocks your boat.

No lad...I believe the truth -- which is that Joshua a big round in the 5th... scored a knockdown in the round for a 2-point round... scored 3 knockdowns in total... and the referee had to rescue Klitschko in the 11th as Joshua chased after him, punishing him severely, leading on points and getting the KO.

You would have him wait to step on the gas until he was certain of victory -- and that can ever happen against a Heavyweight of that caliber.

Kalan wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:

Kalan wrote:Well you're really not too bright... Joshua was landing punches all through the round and following up his successes through the 5th...a 2-point round for him... You're implying Klitschko was too fresh to take chances against in round 5 -- like there was some ideal point in time for AJ to attack... Klitschko waited all night versus Fury... There's no ideal time to attack if you have the strongest offense.. When there're openings you throw.. And there was.

BTW Joshua wasn't "going for broke" in the 5th... You don't go all in, that early in a fight - and he didn't... But he mounted a strong offensive and it worked.

You're accusing me of not being bright, but you keep providing irrelevant responses.

You believe what you want kid, it's your prerogative to ignore real-world video evidence if that's what rocks your boat.

No lad...I believe the truth -- which is that Joshua a big round in the 5th... scored a knockdown in the round for a 2-point round... scored 3 knockdowns in total... and the referee had to rescue Klitschko in the 11th as Joshua chased after him, punishing him severely, leading on points and getting the KO.

You would have him wait to step on the gas until he was certain of victory -- and that can ever happen against a Heavyweight of that caliber.

You're ignoring real-world video evidence of the events that occurred during the fifth round, which is easily observable, whilst also excluding the blatant admissions from AJ himself and Robert McCracken, but you keep making this about me (as if it somehow bizarrely strengthens your argument).

You're a strange kid!

You're weird... You fight the fight that's in front of you, improvising as you go... If he knocked Wlad out early, instead of just flooring him, there would be no discussion about it. Instead he got a lot of experience which in the end will work a lot better for him.