BoxRec

Ah well, if he can get a Guilermo Jones, or a Charles Martin, he's probably back in business anyway, despite everyone who knows boxing knows he doesn't deserve it.

Don't really give a sh*t where he goes from here. Would've been fine if he'd just stayed retired after 2012. Though I didn't mind seeing Bellew beat him up.

One rumour is McGuigan wanted him to quit

Haye has been shot for a long time. He knew it before the Fury fights. Bellew should have been easy pickings for him but he looked crap before the leg. I'm not saying his injuries weren't genuine in any fight, but he really didn't fancy Tyson. You could just tell. And that's a while ago.

coneye wrote:A good trainer will get him in condition , no problem , he's not that old , the leg will recover i would be more worried about the shoulder than the leg ,, Shanes a celebrity trainer , I keep saying it , i don't care who you are you don't wake up one morning and say Heh i think i'll get a job has a trainer of world class boxers , i'll do alright cos me dad was a boxer , i've hung around gyms and i had a few ameteur fights

Being a GOOD trainer is like being a good boxer , its learnt , and it takes time , you suffer an apprentaship and gain knoledge and experience , listen to the others and pinch everyones ideas , you don't become a good trainer because your dads in the know ..

Shane may be a good trainer in the future , but at the moment he's just lucky that TOP boxers have come to him , but they don't seem to be improving, he's to young to have learnt enough , up till now , Frampton got beat easy by tactics in his second fight ,, Haye looked shite even befor he done his ankle , OK he may have had an injury , but if he did , going in and carrying his legs so far apart would'nt of helped it , . Groves well good on him he just won a title but lets have it right his opponent whilst tough was limited , .. Technicly Shane just does'nt have the exoerience , he should go become a good apprentice for a couple of years

Couldn't agree with you more, I never even heard of Shane then next minute he's head trainer of frampton and Gerry storey is gone, takes years to become a good trainer learning your apprentice just like in any other job

pimp wrote:

coneye wrote:A good trainer will get him in condition , no problem , he's not that old , the leg will recover i would be more worried about the shoulder than the leg ,, Shanes a celebrity trainer , I keep saying it , i don't care who you are you don't wake up one morning and say Heh i think i'll get a job has a trainer of world class boxers , i'll do alright cos me dad was a boxer , i've hung around gyms and i had a few ameteur fights

Being a GOOD trainer is like being a good boxer , its learnt , and it takes time , you suffer an apprentaship and gain knoledge and experience , listen to the others and pinch everyones ideas , you don't become a good trainer because your dads in the know ..

Shane may be a good trainer in the future , but at the moment he's just lucky that TOP boxers have come to him , but they don't seem to be improving, he's to young to have learnt enough , up till now , Frampton got beat easy by tactics in his second fight ,, Haye looked shite even befor he done his ankle , OK he may have had an injury , but if he did , going in and carrying his legs so far apart would'nt of helped it , . Groves well good on him he just won a title but lets have it right his opponent whilst tough was limited , .. Technicly Shane just does'nt have the exoerience , he should go become a good apprentice for a couple of years

Couldn't agree with you more, I never even heard of Shane then next minute he's head trainer of frampton and Gerry storey is gone, takes years to become a good trainer learning your apprentice just like in any other job

Yeah totally agree with this. The way the Santa Cruz camp out-thought McGuigan in the second Frampton fight was especially worrying - he didn't seem to have any sort of plan B.

David Haye is not A Shot fighter.
I also think he can beat Belles in a return.
What he needs is a training camp which is exactly that.
People want to write every one off as soon as it's not going right.

Jimmy Tibbs is happy being in the corner with Shane, he's no mug is he.

mickey1975 wrote:Haye has been shot for a long time. He knew it before the Fury fights. Bellew should have been easy pickings for him but he looked crap before the leg. I'm not saying his injuries weren't genuine in any fight, but he really didn't fancy Tyson. You could just tell. And that's a while ago.

I've never bought that theory. Haye has the pretty boy image but he's never been one to swerve a challenge and Fury's hardly some murderous puncher. Not saying Haye wins every time but Fury's not the sort of bloke you could imagine fighters being worried about fighting.

Tyson obviously made a song and dance about it at the time but his 'I'm a fighting man who'll fight anyone anytime no excuses' looks completely farcical these days given all his pullouts.

dirk2686 wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:Haye has been shot for a long time. He knew it before the Fury fights. Bellew should have been easy pickings for him but he looked crap before the leg. I'm not saying his injuries weren't genuine in any fight, but he really didn't fancy Tyson. You could just tell. And that's a while ago.

I've never bought that theory. Haye has the pretty boy image but he's never been one to swerve a challenge and Fury's hardly some murderous puncher. Not saying Haye wins every time but Fury's not the sort of bloke you could imagine fighters being worried about fighting.

Tyson obviously made a song and dance about it at the time but his 'I'm a fighting man who'll fight anyone anytime no excuses' looks completely farcical these days given all his pullouts.

Obviously Haye wasn't scared of him, but I think Tyson did his head in. He's mental, and so are all his team. Haye didn't have a clue what was going on half the time. I doubt Tyson did.

mickey1975 wrote: Obviously Haye wasn't scared of him, but I think Tyson did his head in. He's mental, and so are all his team. Haye didn't have a clue what was going on half the time. I doubt Tyson did.

Haye was long enough in the tooth not to have been phased by Tyson's shenanigans and anyhow he's been known to pull a few pre fight stunts himself in his time. I'm sure it was all water off a duck's back to him.

samwbr wrote:Jimmy Tibbs is happy being in the corner with Shane, he's no mug is he.

Tibbs standing in the game speaks for itself but taking an easy payday to add some authority to a corner on fight night doesn't necessarily mean he wholeheartedly endorses Shane's credentials.

coneye wrote:A good trainer will get him in condition , no problem , he's not that old , the leg will recover i would be more worried about the shoulder than the leg ,, Shanes a celebrity trainer , I keep saying it , i don't care who you are you don't wake up one morning and say Heh i think i'll get a job has a trainer of world class boxers , i'll do alright cos me dad was a boxer , i've hung around gyms and i had a few ameteur fights

Being a GOOD trainer is like being a good boxer , its learnt , and it takes time , you suffer an apprentaship and gain knoledge and experience , listen to the others and pinch everyones ideas , you don't become a good trainer because your dads in the know ..

Shane may be a good trainer in the future , but at the moment he's just lucky that TOP boxers have come to him , but they don't seem to be improving, he's to young to have learnt enough , up till now , Frampton got beat easy by tactics in his second fight ,, Haye looked shite even befor he done his ankle , OK he may have had an injury , but if he did , going in and carrying his legs so far apart would'nt of helped it , . Groves well good on him he just won a title but lets have it right his opponent whilst tough was limited , .. Technicly Shane just does'nt have the exoerience , he should go become a good apprentice for a couple of years

I have to admit I disagree with this. Age shouldn't come into whether Shane McGuigan is a good trainer or not, it should be measured on success, the relationships built, the fact that top level fighters are choosing to work with him.

He didn't just wake up and realised he wouldn't quite crack it as a boxer and that he'll just train instead, he grew into it and realised that he was very good at it. Yes, gaining experience is vital, but as mentioned he has Barry around all the camps giving small little tips to the boxers and to Shane, and he has Jimmy Tibbs on fight night.

Frampton did not get beat easy, it was a very close fight that he narrowly lost - largely due to how good Santa Cruz was on the night. Look at Shane McGuigan's losses as a trainer - Conrad Cummings beat Mittag in my opinion, Frampton lost narrowly, Haye was injured (but would have gone on to lose anyway in my opinion). Then compare it to the wins he has had, he has bought Frampton up from the beginning of his career and become a two weight world champion, George Groves has had three great wins and is now world champion, Cummings has a top 15 ranking, Taylor is one of the most talked about prospects in UK boxing.

Yes, there is always areas of improvement and things he will learn and develop over time with experience, but to call him a celebrity trainer is wrong in my opinion.

Bigroe wrote:David Haye is not A Shot fighter.
I also think he can beat Belles in a return.
What he needs is a training camp which is exactly that.
People want to write every one off as soon as it's not going right.

I agree he isn't shot but his body is broken. I didn't fall for all that training on tbe yacht image he portrayed in the build up to the Bellew fight, that was all for the cameras, but I do think the Achilles was a problem before the fight, judging by the way he walked into the ring, and that probably restricted what training he could do, i.e. little sparring and roadwork. His timing looked awful in the public sessions and even worse in the fight. It does make me wonder if he deliberalty hid away in America because he was crocked and he didn't want the press to pick up on it.

Controversial wrote:

Bigroe wrote:David Haye is not A Shot fighter.
I also think he can beat Belles in a return.
What he needs is a training camp which is exactly that.
People want to write every one off as soon as it's not going right.

I agree he isn't shot but his body is broken. I didn't fall for all that training on tbe yacht image he portrayed in the build up to the Bellew fight, that was all for the cameras, but I do think the Achilles was a problem before the fight, judging by the way he walked into the ring, and that probably restricted what training he could do, i.e. little sparring and roadwork. His timing looked awful in the public sessions and even worse in the fight. It does make me wonder if he deliberalty hid away in America because he was crocked and he didn't want the press to pick up on it.

Yeah on the button in my opinion.

He couldn't risk another pull out and needed the money. The gamble was paying off until his Achilles totally went.

Whether he's shot or finished or not, something was off in the Bellew fight, and I think it was to do with the training and tactics. The first five rounds, before he got injured, the timing wasn't there and he kept getting countered. Bellew had done his homework and had a plan to at least avoid the worst of what Haye could do and throw something back, Haye didn't seem to have a plan at all, and certainly no fallback plan.

I bet he was livid about the stoppage/towel too, even though it made sense at that point. I'm not surprised hes split from Shane but hard to see where he goes now.

revporl wrote:Whether he's shot or finished or not, something was off in the Bellew fight, and I think it was to do with the training and tactics. The first five rounds, before he got injured, the timing wasn't there and he kept getting countered. Bellew had done his homework and had a plan to at least avoid the worst of what Haye could do and throw something back, Haye didn't seem to have a plan at all, and certainly no fallback plan.

I bet he was livid about the stoppage/towel too, even though it made sense at that point. I'm not surprised hes split from Shane but hard to see where he goes now.

He was injured going into the fight, that's what the problem was. There's footage of Haye walking into the ring and he was walking strangely, flat footed. There were reports before the fight that his Achilles was injured and Bellew even admitted that someone from Hayes team had leaked the injury before the fight. All that happened was it completely went in the 6th round.

I didn't realise that. He gets injured a lot doesn't he? Probably time to stop if he's depending on an outside chance of fitness each time he fights.

It's funny people are aying Haye needed to be in better condition, his body couldn't handle the training he did to fight Bellew. He's finnished, if he fights again he'll be out of shape, injured or both.

Bigroe wrote:David Haye is not A Shot fighter.
I also think he can beat Belles in a return.
What he needs is a training camp which is exactly that.
People want to write every one off as soon as it's not going right.

No we want to right someone off that after a long layoff gets a from injury gets injured in his first fight against a pro. If they fight again he'll get injured again. It might not be his ankle or shoulder, but something will go.

He looked so far from his old self in the Bellew fight, on the back of that performance i cant see how he could ever recapture his earlier form. He should do himself a favour and retire.

I actually think he's still got something to offer if he can stay injury free, he's probably got another trainer lined up and I think a lot of trainers would jump at the chance to train him cos he's a cash cow for a start

Let's get real, Daffy Duck would have lost in about 3 rounds against Shannon Briggs as well and Daffy knows this. Especially at heavyweight, he's just not a top contender. I'd like to see him against Tyrone Spong for example. They are probably quite equal.

mickey1975 wrote:Haye has been shot for a long time. He knew it before the Fury fights. Bellew should have been easy pickings for him but he looked crap before the leg. I'm not saying his injuries weren't genuine in any fight, but he really didn't fancy Tyson. You could just tell. And that's a while ago.

Unlikely theory vs fury you have. I don't believe that.