caldo2025 wrote:If every country supported their fighters like England and Ireland does than Boxing would be the #1 Sport in the world, hands down. I'm an American and I have ZERO patronage to US fighters. In fact, i'll go as far as to say that American fighters were the main reason why 2016 was the worst boxing year in my life. American fighters were nothing but record padders, nothing more. But this year they are coming around.
But make no mistake about it. British fighters and British fans are CARRYING this sport right now. British fans are rabid and there is NOTHING better than watching a big fight from across the pond. That Wlad/AJ fight was one of the greatest events in many many many years to watch on TV and the British Fans and their love for their boxers were a huge part of making that night so special. The sport needs way more of it.
In my experience Americans generally are far more patriotic than Brits but specifically regarding sport this manifests itself in supporting national teams rather than individuals.
For example in tennis, with the exception of the occasional night game involving a Yank at Flushing Meadow, Roger or Rafa receive much greater support from the crowd than your average homegrown player.
I was just referring to Boxing though. For instance, when i'm watching the NFL Football, there's no way that i'm not rooting for the NE Patriots living in Boston. Same goes for Red Sox, Bruins and Celtics. I've never and will never root against those team regardless of the circumstances. We live and die with our teams much like the English and Irish live and die with their boxers.
But I despise the American Boxing landscape right now and most of our boxers and will root against them most times. Americans are the ones with team members sucker punching fighters in the corner and avoiding fights and just marring the sport. It's why boxing is way down in America these days. They are all considering thugs and punks here. Floyd fanning out his hundreds at strip clubs. We miss the days of the gentlemen boxers that wore suits, held doors open for women and visited children's hospitals. Those days are gone now. All a bunch of punks and I'll never root for that kind of person regardless of the address he calls home.
I tend to support most British and Irish guys unless they are a total helmet. I'm a fan of fighters from all over though and have been since I was a boy.
I wouldn't not be a fan of someone because of where they were from.
caldo2025 wrote:If every country supported their fighters like England and Ireland does than Boxing would be the #1 Sport in the world, hands down. I'm an American and I have ZERO patronage to US fighters. In fact, i'll go as far as to say that American fighters were the main reason why 2016 was the worst boxing year in my life. American fighters were nothing but record padders, nothing more. But this year they are coming around.
But make no mistake about it. British fighters and British fans are CARRYING this sport right now. British fans are rabid and there is NOTHING better than watching a big fight from across the pond. That Wlad/AJ fight was one of the greatest events in many many many years to watch on TV and the British Fans and their love for their boxers were a huge part of making that night so special. The sport needs way more of it.
I'm with ya on pretty much all that. I'm also American. Who my favorite fighters are has a lot to do with how they fight or there's just gotta be something about them I like. I couldn't give a sh*t less where they're from, but you're right it does make for a much more exciting and electric atmosphere when all the crowd is passionately behind their boy.
You see that kinda thing in the U.S. sometimes in fights involving a Mexican star sometimes, but you don't see it anything like that hardly ever.
Mixed feelings.
Generally, I think patriotic rooting is usually ok, but color rooting is not.
Having said that, even liberals in America wanted to see a "Great White Hope" @ HW in the 1960s-70s.
We can all vent, but country and color rooting aren't going away anytime soon.
People like to root for someone they can relate to. That shouldn't necessarily be country or color though.
Tony1244 wrote:Mixed feelings.
Generally, I think patriotic rooting is usually ok, but color rooting is not.
Having said that, even liberals in America wanted to see a "Great White Hope" @ HW in the 1960s-70s.
We can all vent, but country and color rooting aren't going away anytime soon.
People like to root for someone they can relate to. That shouldn't necessarily be country or color though.
I generally relate to fighters who are true pros, very tough, and it helps if they're really mean or often in entertaining fights.
[quote="caldo2025"
I was just referring to Boxing though. For instance, when i'm watching the NFL Football, there's no way that i'm not rooting for the NE Patriots living in Boston. Same goes for Red Sox, Bruins and Celtics. I've never and will never root against those team regardless of the circumstances. We live and die with our teams much like the English and Irish live and die with their boxers.
But I despise the American Boxing landscape right now and most of our boxers and will root against them most times. Americans are the ones with team members sucker punching fighters in the corner and avoiding fights and just marring the sport. It's why boxing is way down in America these days. They are all considering thugs and punks here. Floyd fanning out his hundreds at strip clubs. We miss the days of the gentlemen boxers that wore suits, held doors open for women and visited children's hospitals. Those days are gone now. All a bunch of punks and I'll never root for that kind of person regardless of the address he calls home.[/quote]
I take your point, there are some dirtballs in US boxing but there always have been. And for every Mayweather or Broner there's a Thurman or Spence or Porter or Ward, who all seem decent guys to me.
And although to watch Joshua crowned in front of 90,000 adoring fans at Wembley you'd assume that all English boxing fans adore him I'm not sure it's as clearcut as that. Plenty of people I know wanted Wlad to beat him and there are several leading UK boxers who divide opinion amongst fans - DeGale, Khan, Groves etc
When it comes to boxing I'm not particularly patriotic, I wanted Spence to beat Brook for example, I just like the guy I like no matter where he's from
ValMar wrote:What do you think about ? I dislike it, but I know that the great majority of posters will not agree with me.
I think it's outrageous, stupid, juvenile, and biased... Fans are crazy supporters of sports teams that happen to play their home games in their city.. Why??? I've very often go to games in whatever city I'm in.. I support the team I like the best if they're in my city or not.. I could GAF less where they play their home games... I’m not an idiot who eats up the hype and personal interest stories about athletes on “my” team... I always loved that song "We'll root, root, root for the home team - if we don't win it's a SHAAAAME." ... I think the guy who wrote it was being sarcastic.
I support Sergei Kovalev and hope he flattens Andre Ward—who is a cheating, head butting, pushing and shoving MFer.. I supported Ward when he fought Kessler and Froch.. I would have supported him against Calzaghe.. I didn't think they were real good boxers and Ward is much better than they were.
There was a time I was a big Ward fan because he was the best Super Middleweight of all time.. From his last fight I think he'll do anything to win and accept a corrupt result like he really won the fight.. Ward got his ass beaten and all 3 American commentators had him losing to Kovalev.. In addition to that, Floyd Mayweather and Roy Jones also said Kovalev won the fight.. Those guys are generally very supportive of Americans.
One man I'm very pissed off about is John David Jackson.. He tried to dump Kovalev and go over to the “American side” ... Can you fukking imagine that??? With all the distractions, and the dissention on his team – along with the NSAC appointing another hit team of American officials – and with his attitude that he’s going to wreck Ward’s career he's so angry about being ripped off – it’s going to be damned near impossible for Kovalev to floor Ward and beat him again – much less get the decision.
A house divided against itself – will not stand... It’s unfair, but this is a corrupt sport.
Outrageous, stupid, juvenile, you're a facking idiot mate
It can give you a bias though for sure.
You feel no loyalty etc to where you're from that's your view. Up to you.
Why would you feel loyalty to a team or athlete just because you live in a certain city??? That makes no sense to me..
If you're coaching a boxer you're pulling for him... If you're his manager you're pulling for him for financial reasons... Maybe you know him, or have met him, or have something in common with him, or you just like him as a good person... But there's a bit of nationalism or racism involved in pulling for your countryman or "brother." Mexican fans are the worst. They often don't give a damn if the result is unfair. They want their hombre to win regardless. I will say in regards to Margarito -- a lot of Mexican fans disowned him and called him "Cheato" -- but some didn't. They didn't really care.
Tony1244 wrote:Mixed feelings.
Generally, I think patriotic rooting is usually ok, but color rooting is not.
Having said that, even liberals in America wanted to see a "Great White Hope" @ HW in the 1960s-70s.
We can all vent, but country and color rooting aren't going away anytime soon.
People like to root for someone they can relate to. That shouldn't necessarily be country or color though.
I generally relate to fighters who are true pros, very tough, and it helps if they're really mean or often in entertaining fights.
One way to relate to a fighter is thru music. In my 50s that doesn't happen much anymore. You've said that your musical tastes are more old school for a young person. Donny LeLonde is a big Dylan fan. A lot of the black fighters from the 1970s were not surprisingly big Motown fans.
I don't know if this actually happened or I dreamt to. After Jimmy Young outboxed someone, I think it was Ron Lyle or Foreman, Jimmy said, "You've got to know when to hold, know when to walk away, know when to run." Kenny Rogers
Kalan wrote:
I think it's outrageous, stupid, juvenile, and biased... Fans are crazy supporters of sports teams that happen to play their home games in their city.. Why??? I've very often go to games in whatever city I'm in.. I support the team I like the best if they're in my city or not.. I could GAF less where they play their home games... I’m not an idiot who eats up the hype and personal interest stories about athletes on “my” team... I always loved that song "We'll root, root, root for the home team - if we don't win it's a SHAAAAME." ... I think the guy who wrote it was being sarcastic.
I support Sergei Kovalev and hope he flattens Andre Ward—who is a cheating, head butting, pushing and shoving MFer.. I supported Ward when he fought Kessler and Froch.. I would have supported him against Calzaghe.. I didn't think they were real good boxers and Ward is much better than they were.
There was a time I was a big Ward fan because he was the best Super Middleweight of all time.. From his last fight I think he'll do anything to win and accept a corrupt result like he really won the fight.. Ward got his ass beaten and all 3 American commentators had him losing to Kovalev.. In addition to that, Floyd Mayweather and Roy Jones also said Kovalev won the fight.. Those guys are generally very supportive of Americans.
One man I'm very pissed off about is John David Jackson.. He tried to dump Kovalev and go over to the “American side” ... Can you fukking imagine that??? With all the distractions, and the dissention on his team – along with the NSAC appointing another hit team of American officials – and with his attitude that he’s going to wreck Ward’s career he's so angry about being ripped off – it’s going to be damned near impossible for Kovalev to floor Ward and beat him again – much less get the decision.
A house divided against itself – will not stand... It’s unfair, but this is a corrupt sport.
Outrageous, stupid, juvenile, you're a facking idiot mate
It can give you a bias though for sure.
You feel no loyalty etc to where you're from that's your view. Up to you.
Why would you feel loyalty to a team or athlete just because you live in a certain city??? That makes no sense to me..
If you're coaching a boxer you're pulling for him... If you're his manager you're pulling for him for financial reasons... Maybe you know him, or have met him, or have something in common with him, or you just like him as a good person... But there's a bit of nationalism or racism involved in pulling for your countryman or "brother." Mexican fans are the worst. They often don't give a damn if the result is unfair. They want their hombre to win regardless. I will say in regards to Margarito -- a lot of Mexican fans disowned him and called him "Cheato" -- but some didn't. They didn't really care.
Guess it's a sense of ownership when one of your own (no racism) makes it.
I just took issue with you calling it outrageous etc.
crusader wrote:Just curious, why is it fine to root by nationality, but wrong to root by race?
Because nationality is more fluid?
I don't see anything wrong with rooting by race. Just so as you aren't degrading the opponent because of race. Nationality and race and most often the same thing in most cases anyhow.
Tony1244 wrote:Mixed feelings.
Generally, I think patriotic rooting is usually ok, but color rooting is not.
Having said that, even liberals in America wanted to see a "Great White Hope" @ HW in the 1960s-70s.
We can all vent, but country and color rooting aren't going away anytime soon.
People like to root for someone they can relate to. That shouldn't necessarily be country or color though.
I generally relate to fighters who are true pros, very tough, and it helps if they're really mean or often in entertaining fights.
I also relate to fighters who I would fight like if I was a fighter. I think I have good power but my footwork would be atrocious. So I relate more to a flatfooted guy with good power and a nice jab.
Tony1244 wrote:Mixed feelings.
Generally, I think patriotic rooting is usually ok, but color rooting is not.
Having said that, even liberals in America wanted to see a "Great White Hope" @ HW in the 1960s-70s.
We can all vent, but country and color rooting aren't going away anytime soon.
People like to root for someone they can relate to. That shouldn't necessarily be country or color though.
I generally relate to fighters who are true pros, very tough, and it helps if they're really mean or often in entertaining fights.
I also relate to fighters who I would fight like if I was a fighter. I think I have good power but my footwork would be atrocious. So I relate more to a flatfooted guy with good power and a nice jab.
Guys that get up off the canvas and win in dramatic fashion once or twice usually quickly gain my appreciation. That's why I still am a big Jhonny Gonzalez fan and always will be until he hangs 'em up. I root for Julian Jackson's kids Julius and John just because I'm such a big fan of The Hawk. I'd like to see John fight more often. He might not rise to the top, but he's a solid fringe contender, and could crack the top 10 with some decent wins.
I like Andy Lee a lot, and I like Miguel Cotto too. I was getting annoyed with Cotto when he was the Middleweight Champ and ducking GGG, but I can't root against the guy because in a lengthy career that I've been watching since the start I've never seen him in a boring fight.
crusader wrote:Just curious, why is it fine to root by nationality, but wrong to root by race?
Because nationality is more fluid?
You can root by nationality even if you have no knowledge of the fighters, i.e. A brit is fighting a German, both unknown unless you're a hardcore fan. A guy could hope the British guy wins based on rooting for one of your countryman.
I can't imagine a situation where 2 unknowns were fighting and someone would root for the black guy over a Hispanic for example.
Normally there'd by knowledge of the fighters to make your decision
For me its more about entertainment than where someone is from. Joe Bugner was a great British boxer beyond any doubt but next to Ali he was deemed a bit dull (nowadays his style would be seen as a less of a problem). Bugner would probably argue correctly that so was everyone else at that time.
The great thing about boxing is that there is something there for everyone. Bravery, guts, heart, tactics, skill and in a few cases, artistry. Lets not mention the crap.
Boxing also has a habit of highlighting the similarities of the human condition regardless of race or country of origin. You don't need to look the same as someone else to identify with them or their struggles.
crusader wrote:Just curious, why is it fine to root by nationality, but wrong to root by race?
Because nationality is more fluid?
You can root by nationality even if you have no knowledge of the fighters, i.e. A brit is fighting a German, both unknown unless you're a hardcore fan. A guy could hope the British guy wins based on rooting for one of your countryman.
I can't imagine a situation where 2 unknowns were fighting and someone would root for the black guy over a Hispanic for example.
Normally there'd by knowledge of the fighters to make your decision
Is it much different though?
Person A: 'He's British like me, so I'll cheer for him'
Person B: 'He's black like me, so I'll cheer for him'
Is person A being reasonable, and person B unreasonable?
crusader wrote:Just curious, why is it fine to root by nationality, but wrong to root by race?
Because nationality is more fluid?
You can root by nationality even if you have no knowledge of the fighters, i.e. A brit is fighting a German, both unknown unless you're a hardcore fan. A guy could hope the British guy wins based on rooting for one of your countryman.
I can't imagine a situation where 2 unknowns were fighting and someone would root for the black guy over a Hispanic for example.
Normally there'd by knowledge of the fighters to make your decision
Is it much different though?
Person A: 'He's British like me, so I'll cheer for him'
Person B: 'He's black like me, so I'll cheer for him'
Is person A being reasonable, and person B unreasonable?
No not really, I just think the situation for person b is much more unlikely than the situation person a has
I cheer on the underdog if I don't know the fighters, nothing pleases me more than seeing a protected prospect getting schooled by a journeyman.
Also fighters I am a fan of, have earned my fandom by either skills, power, attitude, courage, sportsmanship and taking on challenges. No matter where they are from.
KiwiRider wrote:I cheer on the underdog if I don't know the fighters, nothing pleases me more than seeing a protected prospect getting schooled by a journeyman.
Also fighters I am a fan of, have earned my fandom by either skills, power, attitude, courage, sportsmanship and taking on challenges. No matter where they are from.
Ya, I'm an underdog guy too....I love a good upset.
There are times when I'm patriotic and times I'm not when it comes to boxing. For example when Spence traveled to England to challenge Brook for the title and the Brits were booing Spence at the weigh in naturally got me on Spence's side, I wanted Spence to win at that point. I didn't have anything against Brook and not a huge fan of Spence, I'm a fan of both, but with Spence taking the challenge away from home, dealing with a hostile crowd made up my mind.
Several examples when I didn't root for the US fighter.. Bradley/Marquez, Madaina/Broner, Cotto/Judah, Lewis Tyson, Hamed/Kelley, Trinidad/Jones Jr. and the list goes on. I don't think many hardcore fans simply go for solely the people from their country.. But Kalan is a dumb fornicate lol.
I'm with ya on pretty much all that. I'm also American. Who my favorite fighters are has a lot to do with how they fight or there's just gotta be something about them I like. I couldn't give a sh*t less where they're from, but you're right it does make for a much more exciting and electric atmosphere when all the crowd is passionately behind their boy. 
