BoxRec

Ossyrules wrote:Usyk gets over cooked on this forum. He's good for sure, and cruiser isn't a division blessed with a lot of greats imo, so I wouldn't like to say where he is in the all time standings.

The best cruiserweight have moved up.
Hopefully we get to see usyk to this in the future

You will. Cruiserweights all move up because for whatever reason the Cruiserweight division is almost always overlooked and receives very little attention. Those guys basically have to move up to Heavyweight to make any money.

gilgamesh wrote:

ValMar wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
I can easily imagine it. Usyk is a good fighter, he's not invincible.

The invincible boxer does not exist. May I know your opinion ? Which recent CW boxer is capable to outpoint Usyk ? How ?

I didn't say anybody WOULD beat Usyk, but I think Mairis Breidis or Murat Gassiev could possibly be a handful for him. They're very solid fighters in their own right.

Don't get me wrong, I'd pick Usyk to win those fights if they were scheduled next for him, I'm just saying it's not out of the question that he could lose to those guys.

Generally speaking, I agree with you, but I would not give Briedis and Gassiev more than 10 % chance to beat Usyk, but not by decision.

ValMar wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

ValMar wrote:
The invincible boxer does not exist. May I know your opinion ? Which recent CW boxer is capable to outpoint Usyk ? How ?

I didn't say anybody WOULD beat Usyk, but I think Mairis Breidis or Murat Gassiev could possibly be a handful for him. They're very solid fighters in their own right.

Don't get me wrong, I'd pick Usyk to win those fights if they were scheduled next for him, I'm just saying it's not out of the question that he could lose to those guys.

Generally speaking, I agree with you, but I would not give Briedis and Gassiev more than 10 % chance to beat Usyk, but not by decision.

Breidis would be a very live underdog to me. I'd give him a 40% chance of victory in my mind.

Jip wrote:You are so dumb haha. He has looked very impresiv in the ring.

Compare both records of ali and usyk. Who had better opponents in the first 10 fights?

In the 3 years and 8 months Usyk has been a pro he has won the WBO title with wins against Glowacki & Mchunu.

3 years and 8 months into Ali's career he was the undisputed champion with wins over Liston, Moore & Cooper.

gilgamesh wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:Usyk gets over cooked on this forum. He's good for sure, and cruiser isn't a division blessed with a lot of greats imo, so I wouldn't like to say where he is in the all time standings.

The best cruiserweight have moved up.
Hopefully we get to see usyk to this in the future

You will. Cruiserweights all move up because for whatever reason the Cruiserweight division is almost always overlooked and receives very little attention. Those guys basically have to move up to Heavyweight to make any money.

For the majority CW fighters, the main goal is moving up at HW - because of money and glory . Personally, I support this kind of attitude, the HW champion is/was/always will be the absolute champion in the same time.

I think that Briedis v Usyk is a very close tussle. Gassiev may not be active enough but he hits like a mule and would test Usyk's allegedly granite chin.

Usyk is not close to top five CW alltime. If he gets into the tourney and wins it impressively we can revisit this subject.

gilgamesh wrote:

ValMar wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
I didn't say anybody WOULD beat Usyk, but I think Mairis Breidis or Murat Gassiev could possibly be a handful for him. They're very solid fighters in their own right.

Don't get me wrong, I'd pick Usyk to win those fights if they were scheduled next for him, I'm just saying it's not out of the question that he could lose to those guys.

Generally speaking, I agree with you, but I would not give Briedis and Gassiev more than 10 % chance to beat Usyk, but not by decision.

Breidis would be a very live underdog to me. I'd give him a 40% chance of victory in my mind.

I can not agree....
It is off topic, but-------I would give Usyk 50% chance to win against Joshua, 60 % against Fury and Ortiz, 65 % against Wilder..........

ValMar wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

ValMar wrote:
Generally speaking, I agree with you, but I would not give Briedis and Gassiev more than 10 % chance to beat Usyk, but not by decision.

Breidis would be a very live underdog to me. I'd give him a 40% chance of victory in my mind.

I can not agree....
It is off topic, but-------I would give Usyk 50% chance to win against Joshua, 60 % against Fury and Ortiz, 65 % against Wilder..........

They are mental numbers

ValMar wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

ValMar wrote:
Generally speaking, I agree with you, but I would not give Briedis and Gassiev more than 10 % chance to beat Usyk, but not by decision.

Breidis would be a very live underdog to me. I'd give him a 40% chance of victory in my mind.

I can not agree....
It is off topic, but-------I would give Usyk 50% chance to win against Joshua, 60 % against Fury and Ortiz, 65 % against Wilder..........

I don't even consider Fury an active fighter anymore so saying anybody beats him doesn't count for much to me. I'd probably pick Usyk to beat Wilder, but I don't know about Ortiz or Joshua. I certainly think when he does decide to move up to Heavyweight he should test the waters against somebody else before jumping straight into the deep end against those guys.

Someone like Szpilka or Mansour or somebody would be a good first fight at Heavyweight.

I like Usyk and think he's a very solid talent, but I've seen nothing from him to heap the sort of praise on him you're heaping on him yet.

Well he has just signed up for the world boxing super series

If he wins this I'm fine with him being top 5 of all time.


https://mobile.twitter.com/WBSuperSerie ... 6896070657

If he wins that it would rank among the finest achievements of any Cruiserweight ever. So yeah he'd definitely be Top 5 at that point. Hell he'd be Top 2 or 3.

Mexi-Box wrote:

Horse wrote:

Jip wrote:Fu=;.*×$€k records. Skills win fights. Usyk is the cw with the best skills ever. He is the best cw ever.

I also said that he didn't look very good in his last fight.

He fails the record test and the eye test so far.

He doesn't deserve to be rated very highly at all in ATG considerations.

He didn't look very good in dominating a tricky former Olympian?

Yeah, he must be the greatest of all-time, because he's the only professional cruiserweight in the history of ever who has ever beat a former Olympian.

How is this a real question. Is resume is no where near the top cruser ever.

The winner of the tournament will be right there in the ATG CW discussion, assuming it's not someone who comes in and wins one fight as a sub (if that's even possible). Let's say Usyk beats Wlod, Dorticos, and Briedis; how many fighters would clearly have stronger resumes at the weight?

It's a relatively new and historically shallow division. You have plenty of people calling Haye the all-time #2 when his second best cruiser opponent was arguably Enzo Mac.

Lackeos wrote:

Mexi-Box wrote:

Horse wrote:I also said that he didn't look very good in his last fight.

He fails the record test and the eye test so far.

He doesn't deserve to be rated very highly at all in ATG considerations.

He didn't look very good in dominating a tricky former Olympian?

Yeah, he must be the greatest of all-time, because he's the only professional cruiserweight in the history of ever who has ever beat a former Olympian.

He also must be the only promising fighter who ever took a punch. I'm not buying this "he didn't look great" because he maybe lost 2 rounds in a fight he was thoroughly dominating.

Who would people rate in their all-time top 5 at the weight? If you think it's ridiculous to consider Usyk, it would be helpful to see who you're comparing him to and how far off he is.

I don't think it's ridiculous to consider him necessarily I just think it's a ridiculous conversation to even be having considering how early in his career he is at the moment.

gilgamesh wrote:I don't think it's ridiculous to consider him necessarily I just think it's a ridiculous conversation to even be having considering how early in his career he is at the moment.

People were saying the same thing when fanboys were talking up Lomachenko as the messiah. They're eating their words now because Lomachenko is a high p4p fighter. I'm expecting it'll be the same with Usyk. Usyk is the future of the HW division. The SAVIOR of the HW division.

I think he's too small and lacks the power to make it to the top of HW, though I think he'd have a good chance of beating a guy like Parker.

Mexi-Box wrote:People were saying the same thing when fanboys were talking up Lomachenko as the messiah. They're eating their words now because Lomachenko is a high p4p fighter. I'm expecting it'll be the same with Usyk. Usyk is the future of the HW division. The SAVIOR of the HW division.

Lomachenko is fighting chumps though and his record is still pretty weak, so there is plenty to insult him about.

Mexi-Box wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:I don't think it's ridiculous to consider him necessarily I just think it's a ridiculous conversation to even be having considering how early in his career he is at the moment.

People were saying the same thing when fanboys were talking up Lomachenko as the messiah. They're eating their words now because Lomachenko is a high p4p fighter. I'm expecting it'll be the same with Usyk. Usyk is the future of the HW division. The SAVIOR of the HW division.

Lomachenko might be P4P #1 or #2 or #3 depending who you ask, but nobody considers him Top 5 in any weight class he's competed in yet.

gilgamesh wrote:

Mexi-Box wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:I don't think it's ridiculous to consider him necessarily I just think it's a ridiculous conversation to even be having considering how early in his career he is at the moment.

People were saying the same thing when fanboys were talking up Lomachenko as the messiah. They're eating their words now because Lomachenko is a high p4p fighter. I'm expecting it'll be the same with Usyk. Usyk is the future of the HW division. The SAVIOR of the HW division.

Lomachenko might be P4P #1 or #2 or #3 depending who you ask, but nobody considers him Top 5 in any weight class he's competed in yet.

Gilgamesh, would you be so kind and write your top 5 CW ATG list ?

Top 5 CW of all times ??? Based on what ? Neither achievements in pro ranks, nor eye test say that he is an ATG.

ValMar wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

Mexi-Box wrote: People were saying the same thing when fanboys were talking up Lomachenko as the messiah. They're eating their words now because Lomachenko is a high p4p fighter. I'm expecting it'll be the same with Usyk. Usyk is the future of the HW division. The SAVIOR of the HW division.

Lomachenko might be P4P #1 or #2 or #3 depending who you ask, but nobody considers him Top 5 in any weight class he's competed in yet.

Gilgamesh, would you be so kind and write your top 5 CW ATG list ?

1. Evander Holyfield
2. James Toney
3. Marco Huck
4. Dwight Muhammad Qawi
5. Vassily Jirov

Mexi-Box wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:I don't think it's ridiculous to consider him necessarily I just think it's a ridiculous conversation to even be having considering how early in his career he is at the moment.

People were saying the same thing when fanboys were talking up Lomachenko as the messiah. They're eating their words now because Lomachenko is a high p4p fighter. I'm expecting it'll be the same with Usyk. Usyk is the future of the HW division. The SAVIOR of the HW division.

Saviour of the heavyweights?

There's a main man in heavyweight boxing right now that is lifting the division again. And if he faced usyk he batters him from pillar to post.