BoxRec

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:You both have brook too low.

I think he's more talented than the likes of Flanagan, and all that, but Flanagan ain't coming off 2 broken eye sockets and 2 knockout losses.

dirk2686 wrote:

KiwiRider wrote:You blast Fury for inactivity.... Then go to all that trouble doing your list and add Khan??
Been out for ages and no sign of any upcoming fight. He is as busy as Tyson, on Twitter that is.

Nobody would call Khan a busy fighter, but:

He fought more recently than Fury.

He's still licensed.

He's not an obese human car crash.

More importantly when I was called on a faulty part of my logic in ranking Khan, I acknowledged it and changed it accordingly. There's a lesson to be learned here.

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:You both have brook too low.

I think he's more talented than the likes of Flanagan, and all that, but Flanagan ain't coming off 2 broken eye sockets and 2 knockout losses.

I thought both of those losses were strong performances that outweigh beating the likes of fana by a wide margin. Horse has him under McDonnell which is preposterous. He should be top 4.

Horse wrote:Any comments/criticisms of the British Top 30 P4P list are very welcome.

For the record Horse. I don't just disagree with you for the sake of disagreeing with you. I just take issue with inactive fighters being ranked and given heaps of respect and accolades they don't deserve.

In spite of your comment here you didn't take my criticism well. Feel free to criticize my list if you want.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:You both have brook too low.

I think he's more talented than the likes of Flanagan, and all that, but Flanagan ain't coming off 2 broken eye sockets and 2 knockout losses.

I thought both of those losses were strong performances that outweigh beating the likes of fana by a wide margin. Horse has him under McDonnell which is preposterous. He should be top 4.

To be honest, a large part of him ranking where he does is following the Spence loss, I kinda doubt we see Brook fight anybody for a while. He'll probably be dropping further and further down the list by default over the next 5 months.

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
I think he's more talented than the likes of Flanagan, and all that, but Flanagan ain't coming off 2 broken eye sockets and 2 knockout losses.

I thought both of those losses were strong performances that outweigh beating the likes of fana by a wide margin. Horse has him under McDonnell which is preposterous. He should be top 4.

To be honest, a large part of him ranking where he does is following the Spence loss, I kinda doubt we see Brook fight anybody for a while. He'll probably be dropping further and further down the list by default over the next 5 months.

No reason for that. Degale didn't win his last fight and he's going to be out longer than brook.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: I thought both of those losses were strong performances that outweigh beating the likes of fana by a wide margin. Horse has him under McDonnell which is preposterous. He should be top 4.

To be honest, a large part of him ranking where he does is following the Spence loss, I kinda doubt we see Brook fight anybody for a while. He'll probably be dropping further and further down the list by default over the next 5 months.

No reason for that. Degale didn't win his last fight and he's going to be out longer than brook.

He'll be dropping by default too then eventually. That's the thing about the sport of Boxing. When you get inactive and start resting on your laurels, it just keeps right on moving on without you, and can leave you behind.

gilgamesh wrote:

dirk2686 wrote:

KiwiRider wrote:You blast Fury for inactivity.... Then go to all that trouble doing your list and add Khan??
Been out for ages and no sign of any upcoming fight. He is as busy as Tyson, on Twitter that is.

Nobody would call Khan a busy fighter, but:

He fought more recently than Fury.

He's still licensed.

He's not an obese human car crash.

More importantly when I was called on a faulty part of my logic in ranking Khan, I acknowledged it and changed it accordingly. There's a lesson to be learned here.

I'm not anti Khan. He has been in some very entertaining fights.
But his main weapon is a combination of speed and good skills.
But he is at the age where 14 months and nothing on the horizon is going to seriously affect him. And we all know his chin is suspect, so slowing down and not being able to take a shot is a game changer I'm sorry to say.

KiwiRider wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

dirk2686 wrote:
Nobody would call Khan a busy fighter, but:

He fought more recently than Fury.

He's still licensed.

He's not an obese human car crash.

More importantly when I was called on a faulty part of my logic in ranking Khan, I acknowledged it and changed it accordingly. There's a lesson to be learned here.

I'm not anti Khan. He has been in some very entertaining fights.
But his main weapon is a combination of speed and good skills.
But he is at the age where 14 months and nothing on the horizon is going to seriously affect him. And we all know his chin is suspect, so slowing down and not being able to take a shot is a game changer I'm sorry to say.

I'm not anti Khan either, but I try to avoid ranking guys who are 1 year inactive (to the day) without a fight scheduled. He fits that category so he's gotta go.

I've enjoyed his career certainly. His biggest problem was mainly being unrealistic and stalling the sh*t out of his career for years waiting for the Manny and Floyd sweepstakes...he never got it, but then again if he hadn't done that maybe he wouldn't have won the CaneLOTTERY...all a part of the plan I guess. He'd have been in the fight more with Mayweather and Pac I figure because there wouldn't have been such a massive gap in strength.

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
To be honest, a large part of him ranking where he does is following the Spence loss, I kinda doubt we see Brook fight anybody for a while. He'll probably be dropping further and further down the list by default over the next 5 months.

No reason for that. Degale didn't win his last fight and he's going to be out longer than brook.

He'll be dropping by default too then eventually. That's the thing about the sport of Boxing. When you get inactive and start resting on your laurels, it just keeps right on moving on without you, and can leave you behind.

Brook has been out for less than two months and plans to fight before the end of the year. I honestly don't get where you're coming from at all. You seriously decide a guy is going to be inactive and then adjust your ranking before it happens?

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: No reason for that. Degale didn't win his last fight and he's going to be out longer than brook.

He'll be dropping by default too then eventually. That's the thing about the sport of Boxing. When you get inactive and start resting on your laurels, it just keeps right on moving on without you, and can leave you behind.

Brook has been out for less than two months and plans to fight before the end of the year. I honestly don't get where you're coming from at all. You seriously decide a guy is going to be inactive and then adjust your ranking before it happens?

I didn't say I rank him where he is because he's inactive. I said I rank him where he is because he's coming off 2 KO losses. It's a testament to how highly I think of him that he maintains Top 10 status in spite of 2 KO losses. Most people would be out of the Top 10 after that, but like you I agree he gave World Class performances in spite of losing those fights.

Gilgamesh,
If I said to you, that by this time next year, you would have two women on your list, would you agree?
KT is currently ranked top #7 lightweight...

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
He'll be dropping by default too then eventually. That's the thing about the sport of Boxing. When you get inactive and start resting on your laurels, it just keeps right on moving on without you, and can leave you behind.

Brook has been out for less than two months and plans to fight before the end of the year. I honestly don't get where you're coming from at all. You seriously decide a guy is going to be inactive and then adjust your ranking before it happens?

I didn't say I rank him where he is because he's inactive. I said I rank him where he is because he's coming off 2 KO losses. It's a testament to how highly I think of him that he maintains Top 10 status in spite of 2 KO losses. Most people would be out of the Top 10 after that, but like you I agree he gave World Class performances in spite of losing those fights.

You said that a large part of him ranking where he does is that you don't expect to see him fighting soon.

KiwiRider wrote:Gilgamesh,
If I said to you, that by this time next year, you would have two women on your list, would you agree?
KT is currently ranked top #7 lightweight...

I would vehemently disagree. The Best Female Pro Boxer in the world probably has 500 or more male amateurs that are 2 weight classes below her that could stomp her ass.

Men and Women's athletics are two entirely different kettle of fish.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Brook has been out for less than two months and plans to fight before the end of the year. I honestly don't get where you're coming from at all. You seriously decide a guy is going to be inactive and then adjust your ranking before it happens?

I didn't say I rank him where he is because he's inactive. I said I rank him where he is because he's coming off 2 KO losses. It's a testament to how highly I think of him that he maintains Top 10 status in spite of 2 KO losses. Most people would be out of the Top 10 after that, but like you I agree he gave World Class performances in spite of losing those fights.

You said that a large part of him ranking where he does is that you don't expect to see him fighting soon.

I don't expect he's just gonna come straight off a 2nd loss with a 2nd broken eye socket, and get right back to it no. It doesn't effect where I rank him currently though. I hope I'm wrong and he is back before the end of the year. He's fun to watch.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: No reason for that. Degale didn't win his last fight and he's going to be out longer than brook.

He'll be dropping by default too then eventually. That's the thing about the sport of Boxing. When you get inactive and start resting on your laurels, it just keeps right on moving on without you, and can leave you behind.

Brook has been out for less than two months and plans to fight before the end of the year. I honestly don't get where you're coming from at all. You seriously decide a guy is going to be inactive and then adjust your ranking before it happens?

Saad is right imo. Brook is quality and he's not been beaten by some bums.

He's a completely different level of fighter to Flanagan. His 2 losses should effect him but not unreasonably. I think p4p brook is on a higher level than degale tbh who is number 1, but obviously cannot be ranked above him. If degale came across ggg and spence equivalent at 168 and 175 he'd be in big trouble

Horse wrote:

samwbr wrote:Fury hasn't got a licence to fight professionally

He'll get it back eventually.

I hope he does.

Ossyrules wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
He'll be dropping by default too then eventually. That's the thing about the sport of Boxing. When you get inactive and start resting on your laurels, it just keeps right on moving on without you, and can leave you behind.

Brook has been out for less than two months and plans to fight before the end of the year. I honestly don't get where you're coming from at all. You seriously decide a guy is going to be inactive and then adjust your ranking before it happens?

Saad is right imo. Brook is quality and he's not been beaten by some bums.

He's a completely different level of fighter to Flanagan. His 2 losses should effect him but not unreasonably. I think p4p brook is on a higher level than degale tbh who is number 1, but obviously cannot be ranked above him. If degale came across ggg and spence equivalent at 168 and 175 he'd be in big trouble

He's still in the Top 10. He hasn't been affected unreasonably. Most fighters wouldn't be Top 10 after 2 KO losses. He's a rare exception. I think Brook is better than Degale too, but he's gotta do something to prove it. You don't get ranked on hunches.

gilgamesh wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Brook has been out for less than two months and plans to fight before the end of the year. I honestly don't get where you're coming from at all. You seriously decide a guy is going to be inactive and then adjust your ranking before it happens?

Saad is right imo. Brook is quality and he's not been beaten by some bums.

He's a completely different level of fighter to Flanagan. His 2 losses should effect him but not unreasonably. I think p4p brook is on a higher level than degale tbh who is number 1, but obviously cannot be ranked above him. If degale came across ggg and spence equivalent at 168 and 175 he'd be in big trouble

He's still in the Top 10. He hasn't been affected unreasonably. Most fighters wouldn't be Top 10 after 2 KO losses. He's a rare exception. I think Brook is better than Degale too, but he's gotta do something to prove it. You don't get ranked on hunches.

Yeah he needs to rebuild for sure

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
I didn't say I rank him where he is because he's inactive. I said I rank him where he is because he's coming off 2 KO losses. It's a testament to how highly I think of him that he maintains Top 10 status in spite of 2 KO losses. Most people would be out of the Top 10 after that, but like you I agree he gave World Class performances in spite of losing those fights.

You said that a large part of him ranking where he does is that you don't expect to see him fighting soon.

I don't expect he's just gonna come straight off a 2nd loss with a 2nd broken eye socket, and get right back to it no. It doesn't effect where I rank him currently though. I hope I'm wrong and he is back before the end of the year. He's fun to watch.

Why would you say it's a large part of his ranking and then say it has nothing to do with it. You see that you have to have made a mistake here, don't you? I'm not trying to bust your balls but you're giving two exact opposite statements on the same page!

gilgamesh wrote:

KiwiRider wrote:Gilgamesh,
If I said to you, that by this time next year, you would have two women on your list, would you agree?
KT is currently ranked top #7 lightweight...

I would vehemently disagree. The Best Female Pro Boxer in the world probably has 500 or more male amateurs that are 2 weight classes below her that could stomp her ass.

Men and Women's athletics are two entirely different kettle of fish.

Your right. She is one win away from top 5.
Personally I think that counts as top 30 British fighters.. And something to be proud of. You guys have an amazing variety of top talent right now. It would be a shame to overlook a gold medal, 5 times world am champ ranked #7 as a pro, just because it's a Shelia.

Ossyrules wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
He'll be dropping by default too then eventually. That's the thing about the sport of Boxing. When you get inactive and start resting on your laurels, it just keeps right on moving on without you, and can leave you behind.

Brook has been out for less than two months and plans to fight before the end of the year. I honestly don't get where you're coming from at all. You seriously decide a guy is going to be inactive and then adjust your ranking before it happens?

Saad is right imo. Brook is quality and he's not been beaten by some bums.

He's a completely different level of fighter to Flanagan. His 2 losses should effect him but not unreasonably. I think p4p brook is on a higher level than degale tbh who is number 1, but obviously cannot be ranked above him. If degale came across ggg and spence equivalent at 168 and 175 he'd be in big trouble

I wouldn't have any problem with brook ranked over degale. I think I'd probably have brook third behind Joshua and Frampton.

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:You both have brook too low.

I think he's more talented than the likes of Flanagan, and all that, but Flanagan ain't coming off 2 broken eye sockets and 2 knockout losses.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: You said that a large part of him ranking where he does is that you don't expect to see him fighting soon.

I don't expect he's just gonna come straight off a 2nd loss with a 2nd broken eye socket, and get right back to it no. It doesn't effect where I rank him currently though. I hope I'm wrong and he is back before the end of the year. He's fun to watch.

Why would you say it's a large part of his ranking and then say it has nothing to do with it. You see that you have to have made a mistake here, don't you? I'm not trying to bust your balls but you're giving two exact opposite statements on the same page!

Yeah. I misspoke when I said it affected my ranking of him. It doesn't. I don't expect he's gonna fight again before years end, but we'll see.

KiwiRider wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

KiwiRider wrote:Gilgamesh,
If I said to you, that by this time next year, you would have two women on your list, would you agree?
KT is currently ranked top #7 lightweight...

I would vehemently disagree. The Best Female Pro Boxer in the world probably has 500 or more male amateurs that are 2 weight classes below her that could stomp her ass.

Men and Women's athletics are two entirely different kettle of fish.

Your right. She is one win away from top 5.
Personally I think that counts as top 30 British fighters.. And something to be proud of. You guys have an amazing variety of top talent right now. It would be a shame to overlook a gold medal, 5 times world am champ ranked #7 as a pro, just because it's a Shelia.

It would be a shame to pretend she's as good as Male boxers when she's clearly not.

That's what I call P.C. bullsh*t. Let's just pretend that men and women are physically equal because...yay Feminism.

You know where that bullsh*t will eventually lead?

"Hey she's good enough to beat MEN! Let's get her a fight with a man! She'll show 'em!"

followed by

"Hey...that girl that fought a man died last night. Let's ban boxing it's barbaric"