BoxRec

Exactly, it has no bearing on anything. Though I would think when fury relinquished his real titles that would relieve him of the fake one too.

I don't think AJ was the clear #2 in the division when he beat Wlad, and Wlad had been inactive for 17 months and was coming off a 9-3/8-4 loss in his previous bout. If filling a lineal title (and it's debatable whether there was even an opening) means #1 vs #2, it wasn't convincing enough for me.

I do think AJ is the #1 now though, with Fury being grossly overweight and inactive for almost 2 years. That Fury may be the lineal champ isn't very significant for me, and I strongly dislike it when people cling to that title as if it automatically makes the holder the division's most credible fighter.

Covfefe wrote:

Tarkus wrote:

Covfefe wrote:
Tyson Fury did not lose the title. Let's say it's vacant then you can start a new lineage when the best two in the division fight and no one else has a claim, was that criteria met when Joshua fought Klitschko? No, he needs to clear out the division or fight Tyson Fury.

Fury did loose it by failing to defend it against the mandatory opponent, Klitschko.

There is no such thing as a mandatory opponent in this sense.

Call it what you want, Wlad was entitled to his rematch. You dont defend you are not a champion. Simple.

That's one problem with the lineal worship....a fighter can win it, and then continue being regarded as champ even if they fight crap or don't fight at all. Fury could just troll and fight 0-15 clubfighters, and if it's simply 'beat the man who beat the man' he'd continue to be lineal champ.

Oft derided ABC titles come with stricter obligations

Being No. 1 is more important than being the lineal champion.

It's an important title, but it's not the be-all and end-all.

The next man to unify the titles should be considered as such, unless Fury becomes active and then he's back in the game. Say AJ defeats Wilder (not that they will fight) and Fury remains inactive / retired / fat then one would have to consider that a new lineage has begun...

chinarich wrote:The next man to unify the titles should be considered as such, unless Fury becomes active and then he's back in the game. Say AJ defeats Wilder (not that they will fight) and Fury remains inactive / retired / fat then one would have to consider that a new lineage has begun...

That's as I see it currently. Wilder had as much of a claim as AJ prior to the Klitschko win and that doesn't change for me. Would be nice to see some unification fights, the heavyweight division has opened up nicely since Fury beat Wlad but it's for nothing if the fights don't happen.

dirk2686 wrote:

Covfefe wrote:

dirk2686 wrote:It's all to do with timescales. Most people probably didn't have any issue with Fury being lineal champion - but how long can he be out for and still hold that claim? What if he never fights again?

What do you mean didn't have a problem with him being the lineal champion?

As in didn't have a problem with him being lineal after he beat Wlad.

Why would anyone have a problem with it? Wlad was the man. Of course Tyson became lineal.

chinarich wrote:The next man to unify the titles should be considered as such, unless Fury becomes active and then he's back in the game. Say AJ defeats Wilder (not that they will fight) and Fury remains inactive / retired / fat then one would have to consider that a new lineage has begun...

This seems fair to me. Fury could be the 'Lineal champ in recess' or something, just to keep everyone happy? I'd say that Joshua is the number one heavy right now but until Fury resumes fighting or retires some people will insist he is the lineal champion and its difficult to dispute that.

The thing with the lineal title is that its really just in peoples minds, there is of course no actual lineal belt so you can't lose it outside of the ring and everyone makes their own mind (and their own rules) up about it. Ali spent 3 years in limbo after refusing conscription and being stripped of the title but until Frazier beat him in their first bout lots of people still insisted that Ali was the real heavyweight champion

The winner of Tyson vs Joshua, which is currently Joshua, Fury got a fair chance in shape, but it's not a given thing.

Love him or hate him, fury is the lineal champ

This is an interesting debate. It seems fairly incontestable that Fury is the Lineal Champion, but let's say that he comes back and takes a warm-up fight against someone fringe top 15 like, say, Dominic Brezeale and lost, would people then consider Brezeale the lineal heavyweight champion? If someone outside of the elite holds this honour then it would devalue it in the eyes of the public, would it not?

Nobody at the moment.

Anthony Joshua is the #1 Heavyweight right now.

A fight between him and Joshua or him and Wilder would make him Lineal Champ.

Beating Wladimir Klitschko made him the man to beat, but it didn't make him Lineal Champ as Wladimir had lost the title in his last fight to Fury, and wasn't even ranked coming into the fight with Joshua due to such a lengthy activity. Legend though he is, it was a great win for Joshua and of course elevated Wladimir right back to near the top of the rankings, but Joshua can't be considered Lineal champ off of this win under the circumstances.

gilgamesh wrote:Nobody at the moment.

Anthony Joshua is the #1 Heavyweight right now.

A fight between him and Joshua or him and Wilder would make him Lineal Champ.

Beating Wladimir Klitschko made him the man to beat, but it didn't make him Lineal Champ as Wladimir had lost the title in his last fight to Fury, and wasn't even ranked coming into the fight with Joshua due to such a lengthy activity. Legend though he is, it was a great win for Joshua and of course elevated Wladimir right back to near the top of the rankings, but Joshua can't be considered Lineal champ off of this win under the circumstances.

Wlad was lineal

Fury beat Wlad and became lineal

Until fury is officially retired from the sport, he's still lineal

Ossyrules wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:Nobody at the moment.

Anthony Joshua is the #1 Heavyweight right now.

A fight between him and Joshua or him and Wilder would make him Lineal Champ.

Beating Wladimir Klitschko made him the man to beat, but it didn't make him Lineal Champ as Wladimir had lost the title in his last fight to Fury, and wasn't even ranked coming into the fight with Joshua due to such a lengthy activity. Legend though he is, it was a great win for Joshua and of course elevated Wladimir right back to near the top of the rankings, but Joshua can't be considered Lineal champ off of this win under the circumstances.

Wlad was lineal

Fury beat Wlad and became lineal

Until fury is officially retired from the sport, he's still lineal

He relinquished his title. His own personal statement. When a man says he ain't the champion anymore, and then proceeds to do a bunch of cocaine and gain 100 pounds I believe him.

gilgamesh wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:Nobody at the moment.

Anthony Joshua is the #1 Heavyweight right now.

A fight between him and Joshua or him and Wilder would make him Lineal Champ.

Beating Wladimir Klitschko made him the man to beat, but it didn't make him Lineal Champ as Wladimir had lost the title in his last fight to Fury, and wasn't even ranked coming into the fight with Joshua due to such a lengthy activity. Legend though he is, it was a great win for Joshua and of course elevated Wladimir right back to near the top of the rankings, but Joshua can't be considered Lineal champ off of this win under the circumstances.

Wlad was lineal

Fury beat Wlad and became lineal

Until fury is officially retired from the sport, he's still lineal

He relinquished his title. His own personal statement. When a man says he ain't the champion anymore, and then proceeds to do a bunch of cocaine and gain 100 pounds I believe him.

He's also made a shite load of statements stating he is the lineal champion. Believe what fury says at your peril. He's a bullshitter

Until he's retired, or beaten, he's lineal. That's how it works

It's effectively a meaningless concept in the modern era. It's hard enough to care about real titles, let alone imaginary ones.

Lennox

For most of Wladmir's main reign as champion there was a WBC champion held in equal regard as Wlad that he didn't fight. Hard to really see Wlad as the Lineal champion when it was very close between him and his brother as who the #1 was. Wlad should have tried to win the WBC belt when his brother retired.

In 2013/2014 Wlad dominated then top contenders in Povetkin and Pulev, to go along with all his other wins; at that point who was preventing him from lineal status?

stujones wrote:For most of Wladmir's main reign as champion there was a WBC champion held in equal regard as Wlad that he didn't fight. Hard to really see Wlad as the Lineal champion when it was very close between him and his brother as who the #1 was. Wlad should have tried to win the WBC belt when his brother retired.

Wlad was clearly above his brother in the rankings.

Ossyrules wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:Nobody at the moment.

Anthony Joshua is the #1 Heavyweight right now.

A fight between him and Joshua or him and Wilder would make him Lineal Champ.

Beating Wladimir Klitschko made him the man to beat, but it didn't make him Lineal Champ as Wladimir had lost the title in his last fight to Fury, and wasn't even ranked coming into the fight with Joshua due to such a lengthy activity. Legend though he is, it was a great win for Joshua and of course elevated Wladimir right back to near the top of the rankings, but Joshua can't be considered Lineal champ off of this win under the circumstances.

Wlad was lineal

Fury beat Wlad and became lineal

Until fury is officially retired from the sport, he's still lineal

Fury did retire, he gave up all his belts and hasn't fought for ages. Again, it's a complete meaningless crown in today's sport, but I'd consider vacant or Joshua every bit as valid an answer as fury.

crusader wrote:In 2013/2014 Wlad dominated then top contenders in Povetkin and Pulev, to go along with all his other wins; at that point who was preventing him from lineal status?

Only the fact that lineal is bullshit.

No one, as Fury hasn't fought in over a year.

When he fights a significant opponent he'll be number one.

I put nobody,when wilder fights joshua the winner is the lineal champ if both stay champion till they meet