BoxRec

Counter-puncher wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:The most ragged, well-leafed playbook in recent boxing history.

The 'but for Cus dying', 'but for that bitch Washington/Givens and her mom' chapters are particularly worn and dog-eared.

Agreed, the chapter on headbutts is close. No chapter on 'prime' Tyson looking the same against Tillis that he did against douglas.

I knew I missed a chapter.

Plus the empty page at the back titled 'the average Tyson-ranter's knowledge of boxing'

Counter-puncher wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Agreed, the chapter on headbutts is close. No chapter on 'prime' Tyson looking the same against Tillis that he did against douglas.

I knew I missed a chapter.

Plus the empty page at the back titled 'the average Tyson-ranter's knowledge of boxing'

Maybe I should explain it in Teddy Atlas voice.

'MIKE WAS A HIGH TECH COMPUTER PROGRAM. IT WAS VERY HARD TO HACK, BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE. IF YOU COULD HACK IT, A VIRUS WAS ON THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!"

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:
I knew I missed a chapter.

Plus the empty page at the back titled 'the average Tyson-ranter's knowledge of boxing'

Maybe I should explain it in Teddy Atlas voice.

'MIKE WAS A HIGH TECH COMPUTER PROGRAM. IT WAS VERY HARD TO HACK, BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE. IF YOU COULD HACK IT, A VIRUS WAS ON THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Tyson was definitely not a fireman

Counter-puncher wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:
Plus the empty page at the back titled 'the average Tyson-ranter's knowledge of boxing'

Maybe I should explain it in Teddy Atlas voice.

'MIKE WAS A HIGH TECH COMPUTER PROGRAM. IT WAS VERY HARD TO HACK, BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE. IF YOU COULD HACK IT, A VIRUS WAS ON THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Tyson was definitely not a fireman

He was more of an arsonist.

self-immolation a speciality

Tyson was what he was and his focus or Cus or anything else wouldn't have changed it.

Now if Golota had focused on boxing, there's a different story

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I do have to give JIP credit, the line about a Boxer fighting for $ & pussy as an example of lost focus is pure comedic gold. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but all Boxers fight for that. The Spartan life for a fighter is far rarer than the party animal skirt chaser. A top guy that lives like Hagler, Hopkins or Mayweather is about 10000-1.

I mean, it aint excuses, more reasons why there was a prime and a washed up version of tyson. I am not delusional and often said that tyson would certainly lose against top heavyweight who have much more height weight and reach advantage over him like lewis, vitaly or joshua. But ine thing is for sure, there is a big difference between the lrime tyson who was living in the mountains and had nothing but boxing and koing opponents in his mind, than the douglus out of shape extremly rich tyson and the version who came out of jail, who still good but not the same from the 80s.

At the end the main point why most people why i love boxing is because of action, drama, suspence. Thats why boxers like dempsey, louis, ali, chavez, trinidad, pacquiao have been fan favourites and not boxers like winky wright or guillermo rigondeaux. And the guy who brought the most attraction was prime tyson, so obvious that some people might consider him THE NAME OF BOXING.

Jip wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I do have to give JIP credit, the line about a Boxer fighting for $ & pussy as an example of lost focus is pure comedic gold. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but all Boxers fight for that. The Spartan life for a fighter is far rarer than the party animal skirt chaser. A top guy that lives like Hagler, Hopkins or Mayweather is about 10000-1.

I mean, it aint excuses, more reasons why there was a prime and a washed up version of tyson. I am not delusional and often said that tyson would certainly lose against top heavyweight who have much more height weight and reach advantage over him like lewis, vitaly or joshua. But ine thing is for sure, there is a big difference between the lrime tyson who was living in the mountains and had nothing but boxing and koing opponents in his mind, than the douglus out of shape extremly rich tyson and the version who came out of jail, who still good but not the same from the 80s.

At the end the main point why most people why i love boxing is because of action, drama, suspence. Thats why boxers like dempsey, louis, ali, chavez, trinidad, pacquiao have been fan favourites and not boxers like winky wright or guillermo rigondeaux. And the guy who brought the most attraction was prime tyson, so obvious that some people might consider him THE NAME OF BOXING.

I didn't doubt your sincerity. You're just wrong. The version that came out of jail was obviously diminished. The Douglas he fought would have kicked his ass at any point in his life. There was never a Tyson that did nothing but Boxing. You're off by miles there.

The least used, and most valid, excuse fpor the Douglas fight is why his corner was using condoms filled with water instead of endswell.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Jip wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I do have to give JIP credit, the line about a Boxer fighting for $ & pussy as an example of lost focus is pure comedic gold. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but all Boxers fight for that. The Spartan life for a fighter is far rarer than the party animal skirt chaser. A top guy that lives like Hagler, Hopkins or Mayweather is about 10000-1.

I mean, it aint excuses, more reasons why there was a prime and a washed up version of tyson. I am not delusional and often said that tyson would certainly lose against top heavyweight who have much more height weight and reach advantage over him like lewis, vitaly or joshua. But ine thing is for sure, there is a big difference between the lrime tyson who was living in the mountains and had nothing but boxing and koing opponents in his mind, than the douglus out of shape extremly rich tyson and the version who came out of jail, who still good but not the same from the 80s.

At the end the main point why most people why i love boxing is because of action, drama, suspence. Thats why boxers like dempsey, louis, ali, chavez, trinidad, pacquiao have been fan favourites and not boxers like winky wright or guillermo rigondeaux. And the guy who brought the most attraction was prime tyson, so obvious that some people might consider him THE NAME OF BOXING.

I didn't doubt your sincerity. You're just wrong. The version that came out of jail was obviously diminished. The Douglas he fought would have kicked his ass at any point in his life. There was never a Tyson that did nothing but Boxing. You're off by miles there.

The least used, and most valid, excuse fpor the Douglas fight is why his corner was using condoms filled with water instead of endswell.

The douglus he fought was 13 secondes on the floor KO.
Tyson at that time was slow and out of shape compared his prime shape. He did always box, except the year in jail. But not because you do something al time doesnt mean you always trained at 100 %. Look at oscar de la hoya. When he trained 100 % he was one of the boxer ever. Than one time he felt he didnt need to train hard against an at that time unknown opponent he had the thoughest fight of his life against sturm.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Jip wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I do have to give JIP credit, the line about a Boxer fighting for $ & pussy as an example of lost focus is pure comedic gold. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but all Boxers fight for that. The Spartan life for a fighter is far rarer than the party animal skirt chaser. A top guy that lives like Hagler, Hopkins or Mayweather is about 10000-1.

I mean, it aint excuses, more reasons why there was a prime and a washed up version of tyson. I am not delusional and often said that tyson would certainly lose against top heavyweight who have much more height weight and reach advantage over him like lewis, vitaly or joshua. But ine thing is for sure, there is a big difference between the lrime tyson who was living in the mountains and had nothing but boxing and koing opponents in his mind, than the douglus out of shape extremly rich tyson and the version who came out of jail, who still good but not the same from the 80s.

At the end the main point why most people why i love boxing is because of action, drama, suspence. Thats why boxers like dempsey, louis, ali, chavez, trinidad, pacquiao have been fan favourites and not boxers like winky wright or guillermo rigondeaux. And the guy who brought the most attraction was prime tyson, so obvious that some people might consider him THE NAME OF BOXING.

I didn't doubt your sincerity. You're just wrong. The version that came out of jail was obviously diminished. The Douglas he fought would have kicked his ass at any point in his life. There was never a Tyson that did nothing but Boxing. You're off by miles there.

The least used, and most valid, excuse fpor the Douglas fight is why his corner was using condoms filled with water instead of endswell.

Distractions outside the ring and problems accelerated after cus d'amato and then furthermore after berbick. I think earlier Tyson would've taken care of douglas

Jip wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Jip wrote:
I mean, it aint excuses, more reasons why there was a prime and a washed up version of tyson. I am not delusional and often said that tyson would certainly lose against top heavyweight who have much more height weight and reach advantage over him like lewis, vitaly or joshua. But ine thing is for sure, there is a big difference between the lrime tyson who was living in the mountains and had nothing but boxing and koing opponents in his mind, than the douglus out of shape extremly rich tyson and the version who came out of jail, who still good but not the same from the 80s.

At the end the main point why most people why i love boxing is because of action, drama, suspence. Thats why boxers like dempsey, louis, ali, chavez, trinidad, pacquiao have been fan favourites and not boxers like winky wright or guillermo rigondeaux. And the guy who brought the most attraction was prime tyson, so obvious that some people might consider him THE NAME OF BOXING.

I didn't doubt your sincerity. You're just wrong. The version that came out of jail was obviously diminished. The Douglas he fought would have kicked his ass at any point in his life. There was never a Tyson that did nothing but Boxing. You're off by miles there.

The least used, and most valid, excuse fpor the Douglas fight is why his corner was using condoms filled with water instead of endswell.

The douglus he fought was 13 secondes on the floor KO.
Tyson at that time was slow and out of shape compared his prime shape. He did always box, except the year in jail. But not because you do something al time doesnt mean you always trained at 100 %. Look at oscar de la hoya. When he trained 100 % he was one of the boxer ever. Than one time he felt he didnt need to train hard against an at that time unknown opponent he had the thoughest fight of his life against sturm.

We forgot about the long count chapter.

Ossyrules wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Jip wrote:
I mean, it aint excuses, more reasons why there was a prime and a washed up version of tyson. I am not delusional and often said that tyson would certainly lose against top heavyweight who have much more height weight and reach advantage over him like lewis, vitaly or joshua. But ine thing is for sure, there is a big difference between the lrime tyson who was living in the mountains and had nothing but boxing and koing opponents in his mind, than the douglus out of shape extremly rich tyson and the version who came out of jail, who still good but not the same from the 80s.

At the end the main point why most people why i love boxing is because of action, drama, suspence. Thats why boxers like dempsey, louis, ali, chavez, trinidad, pacquiao have been fan favourites and not boxers like winky wright or guillermo rigondeaux. And the guy who brought the most attraction was prime tyson, so obvious that some people might consider him THE NAME OF BOXING.

I didn't doubt your sincerity. You're just wrong. The version that came out of jail was obviously diminished. The Douglas he fought would have kicked his ass at any point in his life. There was never a Tyson that did nothing but Boxing. You're off by miles there.

The least used, and most valid, excuse fpor the Douglas fight is why his corner was using condoms filled with water instead of endswell.

Distractions outside the ring and problems accelerated after cus d'amato and then furthermore after berbick. I think earlier Tyson would've taken care of douglas

Did you ever watch the Tillis fight? Very similar except for Douglas was much better.

Cus enabled Mike's poor behavior. He did whatever he wanted, The image of this clean cut one track fighter under Cus is a massive fallacy.

Aren't we due for an Ike Ibeabuchi thread again?

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
I didn't doubt your sincerity. You're just wrong. The version that came out of jail was obviously diminished. The Douglas he fought would have kicked his ass at any point in his life. There was never a Tyson that did nothing but Boxing. You're off by miles there.

The least used, and most valid, excuse fpor the Douglas fight is why his corner was using condoms filled with water instead of endswell.

Distractions outside the ring and problems accelerated after cus d'amato and then furthermore after berbick. I think earlier Tyson would've taken care of douglas

Did you ever watch the Tillis fight? Very similar except for Douglas was much better.

Yeah fair point that was a close fight.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Jip wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
I didn't doubt your sincerity. You're just wrong. The version that came out of jail was obviously diminished. The Douglas he fought would have kicked his ass at any point in his life. There was never a Tyson that did nothing but Boxing. You're off by miles there.

The least used, and most valid, excuse fpor the Douglas fight is why his corner was using condoms filled with water instead of endswell.

The douglus he fought was 13 secondes on the floor KO.
Tyson at that time was slow and out of shape compared his prime shape. He did always box, except the year in jail. But not because you do something al time doesnt mean you always trained at 100 %. Look at oscar de la hoya. When he trained 100 % he was one of the boxer ever. Than one time he felt he didnt need to train hard against an at that time unknown opponent he had the thoughest fight of his life against sturm.

We forgot about the long count chapter.

Ffs we missed that too

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Jip wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
I didn't doubt your sincerity. You're just wrong. The version that came out of jail was obviously diminished. The Douglas he fought would have kicked his ass at any point in his life. There was never a Tyson that did nothing but Boxing. You're off by miles there.

The least used, and most valid, excuse fpor the Douglas fight is why his corner was using condoms filled with water instead of endswell.

The douglus he fought was 13 secondes on the floor KO.
Tyson at that time was slow and out of shape compared his prime shape. He did always box, except the year in jail. But not because you do something al time doesnt mean you always trained at 100 %. Look at oscar de la hoya. When he trained 100 % he was one of the boxer ever. Than one time he felt he didnt need to train hard against an at that time unknown opponent he had the thoughest fight of his life against sturm.

We forgot about the long count chapter.

Jip wrote:If he would have focused on boxing?

The death of cus, who guided him. The millions. Don king. This b;?"#h who put him in jail.

Lets say he would have continued to train like in the 80s and had no jail time, no headaches outside the ring, would he have surpassed ali the boxing global icon. With bowe, moorer, foreman, holyfield, lewis etc as potential opponents?

Being a gobal icon has LESS to do with ability than charisma.. Even after he was beaten by Tunney, Dempsey continued to be the biggest name and biggest draw in the sport---pulling them in without the Heavyweight Title and with Sharkey as his opponent.. You couldn't pull multi-million dollar gates with anybody else -- and certainly not with master boxer Tunney who the fans didn't like.. More people paid to see Dempsey-Tunney than any other match-up Dempsey fought...but they wanted Tunney beaten. Tyson was the fan favorite whenever he fought, so you can say he was the biggest Heavyweight icon of his time.

Holyfield was no master boxer -- but he was a heady infighter with good weapons, a defense, physical strength and toughness to equal Tyson's, and more smarts.. There was no way Tyson was going to intimidate Holyfield.. Douglas and Lewis weren't going to be intimidated by Mike either.. But the fans paid to see Mike Tyson, more so than those guys... And when you're talking icon you're talking name awareness.

Biggest icons in Heavyweight History? ... Sullivan... Dempsey... Louis... Ali... Tyson... Joshua

People might dispute Joshua with only 19 fights.. Let's say that if AJ fights any top Heavyweight you could sell 100 thousand tickets and pull a 30 million dollar live gate.. And pull PPV as well.. People know they're going to see bombs thrown in the fight -- and you got that with Tyson too.

A lot of Tyson haters here, I have heard all the arguments before, to me Tyson and all time great top 5 all time heavyweight champ.

Kalan wrote:Biggest icons in Heavyweight History? ... Sullivan... Dempsey... Louis... Ali... Tyson... Joshua

People might dispute Joshua with only 19 fights.. Let's say that if AJ fights any top Heavyweight you could sell 100 thousand tickets and pull a 30 million dollar live gate.. And pull PPV as well.. People know they're going to see bombs thrown in the fight -- and you got that with Tyson too.

I think it is too early to label Anthony Joshua as an icon. He may become an iconic figure in the future but he has a way to go yet.
Sullivan, Dempsey and Louis were definitely American icons and their names also well known in some other countries.
Whereas Ali and Tyson's names are known by the general public (not just boxing fans) almost everywhere on the planet.

Kalan wrote:

Jip wrote:If he would have focused on boxing?

The death of cus, who guided him. The millions. Don king. This b;?"#h who put him in jail.

Lets say he would have continued to train like in the 80s and had no jail time, no headaches outside the ring, would he have surpassed ali the boxing global icon. With bowe, moorer, foreman, holyfield, lewis etc as potential opponents?

Being a gobal icon has LESS to do with ability than charisma.. Even after he was beaten by Tunney, Dempsey continued to be the biggest name and biggest draw in the sport---pulling them in without the Heavyweight Title and with Sharkey as his opponent.. You couldn't pull multi-million dollar gates with anybody else -- and certainly not with master boxer Tunney who the fans didn't like.. More people paid to see Dempsey-Tunney than any other match-up Dempsey fought...but they wanted Tunney beaten. Tyson was the fan favorite whenever he fought, so you can say he was the biggest Heavyweight icon of his time.

Holyfield was no master boxer -- but he was a heady infighter with good weapons, a defense, physical strength and toughness to equal Tyson's, and more smarts.. There was no way Tyson was going to intimidate Holyfield.. Douglas and Lewis weren't going to be intimidated by Mike either.. But the fans paid to see Mike Tyson, more so than those guys... And when you're talking icon you're talking name awareness.

Biggest icons in Heavyweight History? ... Sullivan... Dempsey... Louis... Ali... Tyson... Joshua

People might dispute Joshua with only 19 fights.. Let's say that if AJ fights any top Heavyweight you could sell 100 thousand tickets and pull a 30 million dollar live gate.. And pull PPV as well.. People know they're going to see bombs thrown in the fight -- and you got that with Tyson too.

Ability is the most important factor. Tyson intimidating and had muxh charisma, but had he not much ability not many people would have cared.

Dont forget, his abilitys in his prime were super high. No heavyweight boxer from 1900-1985 possessed the combination of blazing speed, ATG power and iron chin he had. Only prime ali comes to my mind.

Kalan wrote:

Jip wrote:If he would have focused on boxing?

The death of cus, who guided him. The millions. Don king. This b;?"#h who put him in jail.

Lets say he would have continued to train like in the 80s and had no jail time, no headaches outside the ring, would he have surpassed ali the boxing global icon. With bowe, moorer, foreman, holyfield, lewis etc as potential opponents?

Being a gobal icon has LESS to do with ability than charisma.. Even after he was beaten by Tunney, Dempsey continued to be the biggest name and biggest draw in the sport---pulling them in without the Heavyweight Title and with Sharkey as his opponent.. You couldn't pull multi-million dollar gates with anybody else -- and certainly not with master boxer Tunney who the fans didn't like.. More people paid to see Dempsey-Tunney than any other match-up Dempsey fought...but they wanted Tunney beaten. Tyson was the fan favorite whenever he fought, so you can say he was the biggest Heavyweight icon of his time.

Holyfield was no master boxer -- but he was a heady infighter with good weapons, a defense, physical strength and toughness to equal Tyson's, and more smarts.. There was no way Tyson was going to intimidate Holyfield.. Douglas and Lewis weren't going to be intimidated by Mike either.. But the fans paid to see Mike Tyson, more so than those guys... And when you're talking icon you're talking name awareness.

Biggest icons in Heavyweight History? ... Sullivan... Dempsey... Louis... Ali... Tyson... Joshua

People might dispute Joshua with only 19 fights.. Let's say that if AJ fights any top Heavyweight you could sell 100 thousand tickets and pull a 30 million dollar live gate.. And pull PPV as well.. People know they're going to see bombs thrown in the fight -- and you got that with Tyson too.

Joshua was nearly KO'd, but for some reason let off the hook by a 41yr old way past it Wlad. If Wlad finished the job like he should have, would you insert his name instead of Joshua's? Or put Fury in? That is how dumb it is. Truth be told, there are about 20 "icons" at least in line ahead of Joshua. His career is just getting started.

Jip wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Jip wrote:
I mean, it aint excuses, more reasons why there was a prime and a washed up version of tyson. I am not delusional and often said that tyson would certainly lose against top heavyweight who have much more height weight and reach advantage over him like lewis, vitaly or joshua. But ine thing is for sure, there is a big difference between the lrime tyson who was living in the mountains and had nothing but boxing and koing opponents in his mind, than the douglus out of shape extremly rich tyson and the version who came out of jail, who still good but not the same from the 80s.

At the end the main point why most people why i love boxing is because of action, drama, suspence. Thats why boxers like dempsey, louis, ali, chavez, trinidad, pacquiao have been fan favourites and not boxers like winky wright or guillermo rigondeaux. And the guy who brought the most attraction was prime tyson, so obvious that some people might consider him THE NAME OF BOXING.

I didn't doubt your sincerity. You're just wrong. The version that came out of jail was obviously diminished. The Douglas he fought would have kicked his ass at any point in his life. There was never a Tyson that did nothing but Boxing. You're off by miles there.

The least used, and most valid, excuse fpor the Douglas fight is why his corner was using condoms filled with water instead of endswell.

The douglus he fought was 13 secondes on the floor KO.
Tyson at that time was slow and out of shape compared his prime shape. He did always box, except the year in jail. But not because you do something al time doesnt mean you always trained at 100 %. Look at oscar de la hoya. When he trained 100 % he was one of the boxer ever. Than one time he felt he didnt need to train hard against an at that time unknown opponent he had the thoughest fight of his life against sturm.

douglas could have easily got up
early but didn't need to. this long
count is a bit of a myth ...

I agree....fighters react to the ref, and it looked to me like Douglas was timing the count to get up at the last moment, whenever it was to come.

If you're trying to maximize recovery time, why get up in 9 seconds when the ref is giving you an extra 3-4?

Of course he was, it's just yet another excuse for a comprehensive ass whooping. Tyson fans can't deal with reality. In it's own way that's a sign of how big of an icon he was. Ali too, the excuses for the Frazier drubbing are always there too.