BoxRec

Badhusker wrote:I think Al Haymon knows how critical it is for Wilder to finally fight a top contender like Ortiz. They will have to pay Stiverne big bucks to step aside, but hopefully it goes through.

Al doesn't pay big bucks for anything outside of 147, and that's once a year.

Enlightened-One wrote:

IronFrost wrote:Deontay Wilder-Luis Ortiz in Works

Do you have a source that states that this bout is being negotiated?

It came from this source: http://www.BS.com/deontay-wild ... er--118639


Then shortly after this came out indicating Stiverne will consider step aside money, forcing the wildly anticipated Wilder-Stiverne II: http://www.BS.com/stiverne-hir ... iz--118643

IronFrost wrote:If this fight happens than Deontay Wilder deserves massive respect.

is that so? the WBC champion taking on a
38 year old challenger deserves "massive
respect"?

welcome to the trump era, anything goes.

man wrote:

IronFrost wrote:If this fight happens than Deontay Wilder deserves massive respect.

is that so? the WBC champion taking on a
38 year old challenger deserves "massive
respect"?

welcome to the trump era, anything goes.

Would you rather watch Wilder - Stiverne II?

Not a lot of people were lining up to fight Ortiz. He's got gargantuan reach and heavy hands, and at 27-0 with 23 KOs he'd definitely be a huge step up in competition for Wilder.

I will believe this fight is happening as soon as I see them in the ring.

Ortiz could be the definition of high risk low reward... There is no reason for Wilder to take this fight. So I think it will not happen.

I would be happy if it happens. I will not be one of the people calling Ortiz old and unproven if Wilder wins.

blazergrad wrote:

man wrote:

IronFrost wrote:If this fight happens than Deontay Wilder deserves massive respect.

is that so? the WBC champion taking on a
38 year old challenger deserves "massive
respect"?

welcome to the trump era, anything goes.

Would you rather watch Wilder - Stiverne II?

Not a lot of people were lining up to fight Ortiz. He's got gargantuan reach and heavy hands, and at 27-0 with 23 KOs he'd definitely be a huge step up in competition for Wilder.

The one that fought Jennings for sure, but I'm not so sure anymore. He's been looking horrendous lately.

blazergrad wrote:

man wrote:

IronFrost wrote:If this fight happens than Deontay Wilder deserves massive respect.

is that so? the WBC champion taking on a
38 year old challenger deserves "massive
respect"?

welcome to the trump era, anything goes.

Would you rather watch Wilder - Stiverne II?

Not a lot of people were lining up to fight Ortiz. He's got gargantuan reach and heavy hands, and at 27-0 with 23 KOs he'd definitely be a huge step up in competition for Wilder.

agree with everything you say.
still awaiting massive respect to
kick in.

Heretic wrote:I will believe this fight is happening as soon as I see them in the ring.

Ortiz could be the definition of high risk low reward... There is no reason for Wilder to take this fight. So I think it will not happen.

I would be happy if it happens. I will not be one of the people calling Ortiz old and unproven if Wilder wins.

I agree it's unlikely to happen, neither are any kind of draw. Low risk/reward for both of them. One reason that would make sense for Wilder is that if he beat Ortiz it clears a path to the massive money fight with Joshua. No reason for Ortiz to take this fight and I'd bet he wants nothing to do with it.

RScarf1 wrote:Maybe the WBC told Wilder that it's about time he fights someone with more than just a pulse.

Then they wouldn't of made Stiverne mandatory challenger...

Nice fight.

The winner of this vs the winner of AJ WK 2 please.

Rob3_142 wrote:

RScarf1 wrote:Maybe the WBC told Wilder that it's about time he fights someone with more than just a pulse.

Then they wouldn't of made Stiverne mandatory challenger...

It is completely inexplicable how Stiverne is the mandatory challenger.
I've looked at it and it does not make sense.
Anyone know (excluding wild and fanciful conspiracies - OK maybe a few can't hurt) how this happened?

man wrote:

IronFrost wrote:If this fight happens than Deontay Wilder deserves massive respect.

is that so? the WBC champion taking on a
38 year old challenger deserves "massive
respect"?

welcome to the trump era, anything goes.

I mean... if he actually nuts-up and fights Ortiz, he at least deserves adequate respect.

man wrote:

IronFrost wrote:If this fight happens than Deontay Wilder deserves massive respect.

is that so? the WBC champion taking on a
38 year old challenger deserves "massive
respect"?

welcome to the trump era, anything goes.

Joshua earned massive respect for fighting and beating a 40+ year old fighter. Don't worry yourself so much about the age, and concentrate on the fighter in front of him. Ortiz is a genuine top 10 fighter, maybe even top 5. Credit where credit is due.

KiwiRider wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:

RScarf1 wrote:Maybe the WBC told Wilder that it's about time he fights someone with more than just a pulse.

Then they wouldn't of made Stiverne mandatory challenger...

It is completely inexplicable how Stiverne is the mandatory challenger.
I've looked at it and it does not make sense.
Anyone know (excluding wild and fanciful conspiracies - OK maybe a few can't hurt) how this happened?

It's not at all clear. Then again, there's a consistent presence of oddities in all the ABC rankings. How is Hughie mandatory in the WBO?

Rob3_142 wrote:It's not at all clear. Then again, there's a consistent presence of oddities in all the ABC rankings. How is Hughie mandatory in the WBO?

Because the WBO likes to have a champion in New Zealand with Joseph Parker just like they do with Jeff Horn in Australia. If they fight someone world-class, then the judges will take care of it. If they don't fight someone world-class, then biased judges are not needed.

Rob3_142 wrote:Joshua earned massive respect for fighting and beating a 40+ year old fighter.

... who had been the dominant figure
in hw boxing for ten years. context
matters.

KiwiRider wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:

RScarf1 wrote:Maybe the WBC told Wilder that it's about time he fights someone with more than just a pulse.

Then they wouldn't of made Stiverne mandatory challenger...

It is completely inexplicable how Stiverne is the mandatory challenger.
I've looked at it and it does not make sense.
Anyone know (excluding wild and fanciful conspiracies - OK maybe a few can't hurt) how this happened?

As far as I remember, Stiverne went to distance and was highly rated around the time of that fight, so still only dropped to rank 5 or so. After that, all the guys above him slowly got removed again, Povetkin had to fight Mike Peres, a very competative fight, and Povetkin became the mandatory, I'm not sure who was ranked above Stiverne back then, but Chagaev stopped, Jennings is currently not in the list, Povetkin got kicked out for false reasons, Thompson stopped and over time Stiverne slowly moved up, rank by rank. And there were also some guys going to cruiserweight.

Lackeos wrote:

man wrote:

IronFrost wrote:If this fight happens than Deontay Wilder deserves massive respect.

is that so? the WBC champion taking on a
38 year old challenger deserves "massive
respect"?

welcome to the trump era, anything goes.

I mean... if he actually nuts-up and fights Ortiz, he at least deserves adequate respect.

to me it would just mean he does
his job. just think about it for a
second if in any other case you
would say that the WBC champion
deserves respect for taking on a
top ten fighter. that should be the
norm, not the exception.

RScarf1 wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:It's not at all clear. Then again, there's a consistent presence of oddities in all the ABC rankings. How is Hughie mandatory in the WBO?

Because the WBO likes to have a champion in New Zealand with Joseph Parker just like they do with Jeff Horn in Australia. If they fight someone world-class, then the judges will take care of it. If they don't fight someone world-class, then biased judges are not needed.

I'd believe you had Parker not been the first NZ/Aus WBO heavyweight champ in their history...

man wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:Joshua earned massive respect for fighting and beating a 40+ year old fighter.

... who had been the dominant figure
in hw boxing for ten years. context
matters.

Yeah of course, but he's still 40+ years old, coming off a defeat and a period of inactivity. The Ortiz match up is a far cry from what Wilder has been serving up recently, so it will obviously be quite welcome.

You know, the Joshua team wanted Fury, but since he took a powder the Klitschko match was the next best thing -- and for the title Fury was contractually obliged to defend against Klitschko... Wladimir was a much tougher and more dangerous matchup for Joshua's aggressive style then Fury's lanky and long-limbed outside boxing style, where he just picks you apart forever with his 6'9" frame and 85" reach ... as the viewer nods off.

Obviously the dream matchup is Joshua vs Ortiz.. And the other 2 are Joshua-Wilder and Wilder-Ortiz.. If Fury ever finds his way back he can be part of the mix, because Ortiz will probably start declining soon.. Parker I don't think is going to be there, even though he's very young and could learn... Povetkin is nearly as old as Ortiz and he's being shut out.. Haye is continuing to suffer his dreaded injuries that wreck every big fight for him. He was born under a dark cloud.

Rob3_142 wrote:I'd believe you had Parker not been the first NZ/Aus WBO heavyweight champ in their history...

The country that a boxer is from does not matter to me. God did not create countries. God created a world. Parker barely got by a flabby Ruiz to win the title. I'm fine with that. But these title defenses are BS.

Rob3_142 wrote:The Ortiz match up is a far cry from what Wilder has been serving up recently, so it will obviously be quite welcome.

i would not grant massive respect
for finally doing what is massively
overdue. all i'm saying.

man wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:The Ortiz match up is a far cry from what Wilder has been serving up recently, so it will obviously be quite welcome.

i would not grant massive respect
for finally doing what is massively
overdue. all i'm saying.

I hear you, and you'll struggle to find someone who can defend his activity since becoming champion, but moving forward, this is a positive move for the division.

Wilder and Haymon are desperate. They need a quality win vs a quality respected opponent...the only possible explanation is that Haymon is paying Ortiz to dive. Haymon controls both and there is no money and no long term potential in Ortiz. Wilder is still the Haymon cash cow. This fight, if it happens, reeks of paying Ortiz to play the patsy. Probably a high price but it's smart business decision by Haymon. He's got to do something big for Wilder now as the public won't tolerate any more tomato can wins.

Hopefully this fight is real but I highly doubt it, as there is just no money in a Cuban elite talent (Rigondeaux). Especially an aging one pushing 40.