BoxRec

Ya, strange. But OMG Josh-Wlad was more entertaining!! And Josh did 90k too!

Fair point that he could've strengthened his resume by beating top contenders, but him never having to get out of first gear against Wlad (not 41, inactive, or coming off a loss) isn't a good argument in favour of him underachieving.

crusader wrote:Ya, strange. But OMG Josh-Wlad was more entertaining!! And Josh did 90k too!

Fair point that he could've strengthened his resume by beating top contenders, but him never having to get out of first gear against Wlad (not 41, inactive, or coming off a loss) isn't a good argument in favour of him underachieving.

I think he is good enough to beat some of these guys, I just don't think he has the temperament for a long reign. I could be proven wrong when he comes back but I suspect I'm right.

Covfefe wrote:

rd350lc wrote:

Covfefe wrote:
Fiddled his way to the win? By out pointing the heavyweight champion away in Germany?

I don't think he has the temperament to be a long term champion, I think this is as good as it will get for Tyson, and I think he's achieved very well.

Yes he danced and fiddled his way to the win .

Joshua and Klitschko gave us far more entertainment and in Germany the result would have been the same

The fight with Fury was one of the dullest heavyweight title fights In living memory and Fury had a part to play in that .

Fury still had the beating of many of the top heavyweights and to conclude his career in the manner he has leaves many questions .

What does it matter if it was boring? Ffs.

He beat the long reigning heavyweight champion in his backyard and you criticise the way he did it? There really is no pleasing everyone.

Correct , the manner in which he "won" the heavyweight title didn't please me one bit and I know I'm not alone .

Would like to have seen him cement his status by proving it in other title fights , like all the other great champions did
over the years .

Covfefe wrote:

crusader wrote:Ya, strange. But OMG Josh-Wlad was more entertaining!! And Josh did 90k too!

Fair point that he could've strengthened his resume by beating top contenders, but him never having to get out of first gear against Wlad (not 41, inactive, or coming off a loss) isn't a good argument in favour of him underachieving.

I think he is good enough to beat some of these guys, I just don't think he has the temperament for a long reign. I could be proven wrong when he comes back but I suspect I'm right.

I don't see him being the same ever again. For his boxing reputation, I think it's probably best if he doesn't come back. IMO, as much as some people already discredit the Wlad win, if he comes back it will become much easier to act like it was a fluke.

rd350lc wrote:

Covfefe wrote:

rd350lc wrote:
Yes he danced and fiddled his way to the win .

Joshua and Klitschko gave us far more entertainment and in Germany the result would have been the same

The fight with Fury was one of the dullest heavyweight title fights In living memory and Fury had a part to play in that .

Fury still had the beating of many of the top heavyweights and to conclude his career in the manner he has leaves many questions .

What does it matter if it was boring? Ffs.

He beat the long reigning heavyweight champion in his backyard and you criticise the way he did it? There really is no pleasing everyone.

P
Correct , the manner in which he "won" the heavyweight title didn't please me one bit and I know I'm not alone .

Would like to have seen him cement his status by proving it in other title fights , like all the other great champions did
over the years .

You do realise he's been suspended don't you, and was intended on rematching Wlad?

crusader wrote:

Covfefe wrote:

crusader wrote:Ya, strange. But OMG Josh-Wlad was more entertaining!! And Josh did 90k too!

Fair point that he could've strengthened his resume by beating top contenders, but him never having to get out of first gear against Wlad (not 41, inactive, or coming off a loss) isn't a good argument in favour of him underachieving.

I think he is good enough to beat some of these guys, I just don't think he has the temperament for a long reign. I could be proven wrong when he comes back but I suspect I'm right.

I don't see him being the same ever again. For his boxing reputation, I think it's probably best if he doesn't come back. IMO, as much as some people already discredit the Wlad win, if he comes back it will become much easier to act like it was a fluke.

He's still only 29, living the way he has been isn't going to help him when he finally comes back, and I'm sure he will, but I think there is winnable fights for him. I can't see him being number one again.

Currently I think Frankie Gavin has massively underachieved and BJS, although he holds a recognised belt, could have done so much more. Granted they are still active but I somehow doubt either will improve their legacy much more from here.

Further back you have to mention Kirkland Laing and I always thought Howard Eastman was destined for greater things too. May sound daft considering what he did on his greatest night in Atlantic City but Lloyd Honeyghan seemed to bomb badly after beating Don Curry and I was disappointed he didn't win any big fights after that.

I suppose its an 'after you already climbed the mountain' scenario for a lot of fighters tbf and none of the names I mention have had bad careers at all but they all could have been HOFers with their talent

Danny Costello

Covfefe wrote:

rd350lc wrote:

Covfefe wrote:
Fiddled his way to the win? By out pointing the heavyweight champion away in Germany?

I don't think he has the temperament to be a long term champion, I think this is as good as it will get for Tyson, and I think he's achieved very well.

Yes he danced and fiddled his way to the win .

Joshua and Klitschko gave us far more entertainment and in Germany the result would have been the same

The fight with Fury was one of the dullest heavyweight title fights In living memory and Fury had a part to play in that .

Fury still had the beating of many of the top heavyweights and to conclude his career in the manner he has leaves many questions .

What does it matter if it was boring? Ffs.

He beat the long reigning heavyweight champion in his backyard and you criticise the way he did it? There really is no pleasing everyone.

Agree, but it's still legitimate for someone to argue Fury underachieved if he never boxes again. After all, Naz was miles better and achieved loads more, but it can still be argued that he underachieved as well. Surely we're talking in terms of overall career potential here.

boxingknockout wrote:Danny Costello

Good call

Tomasino wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Frankie Gavin recently, Kirkland Laing going back.

I watched Gavin live at ringside recently and you'd never have thought he won World Am gold. Was sad in a way.

Did he ? He never mentions it ........

Naz has to be the runaway winner, but he's not the only big name. Eubank would've been a serious challenge for anyone in his prime, and though he'd likely have lost certain fights, he'd never have been humbled as a fighter, only ever as a boxer.

Calzaghe's undefeated record became his currency, and like Eubank, that was a huge shame because he was also a genuine warrior. It was never the fear of the fight with either man — it was the fear of being cast aside by fair-weather fans. The sort of fans who motivated Haye to leave cruiserweight at the height of his powers, binning his potential to rank alongside Holyfield as the greatest cruiser to date.

The '90s were full of British underachievers, because in stark contrast to the modern approach, a lot of guys were thrown — albeit willingly — into the deep end before they were ready. I don't know if Gary Stretch was tired of the sport by the time that Eubank's offer came in, but he was very good at 154 and probably could've done something there with the right mindset and trainer. Moving up to 160 to fight Eubank of all people was madness.

Kevin Lueshing was towards the end of his career when he fought Trinidad, and I suppose it's one of those where he ‘had to know’, but that was as good as a career-ending defeat following a nice run of wins. Dean Francis was (and unfortunately, is) exceptionally unlucky, and to a lesser extent, so too Glenn Catley. It's hard to say how much those handwraps derailed Glenn, but he might've avoided the Lucas rematch and loss and not had to travel to Germany for Haussler.

Does anyone know why Matt Thirlwall retired? His career just petered out, and on paper, it looks like he was shut out by others.

As for Fury ( taking the UKAD cover up away) I would say he over achieved because no one expected him to beat Wlad.

Though I can understand people including him because had he not gone off the rails and obtained wins over Joshua and Wilder he would be considered an ATG.

Before my time but I have always heard how good Herol Graham was and how he would have schooled Benn and Eubank but he never won a world title.

Robin Reid is one not mentioned. I've never seen the fight but I heard he was dire against Malinga when he lost his world title. I had Reid v Calzaghe a draw and felt there should have been a rematch. Plus there is no doubt that Reid beat Sven Ottke in Germany.

I think Amir Khan could have done so much more with his career in the past four years if he never started talking about Floyd Mayweather.

And Kell brook is another ...don't get me started on him.

Although the story is not over for him (or maybe it is), I am throwing in Anthony Ogogo as an underachiever.

Olympic bronze, highly touted, signed with Golden Boy, going nowhere.


As an aside, why is Cunningham who beat him and with one defeat in 20 only toiling away in a couple 4 and 6 rounders on nothing cards?

Gavin jumps out for me. Just seemed to fall apart before he really got going. I remember the hype before the 2008 Olympics and he was so far beyond everyone else it was unreal. To think from that group DeGale, Saunders and Yafai all went on to win world titles and despite his ability Frankie never got to European seems strange.

Regarding Fury, you have to deal with him as two fighters for me. One, the knockabout, frequently overweight guy who legitimately beat the best in the world - in no way can that version of him be dismissed as an underachiever. But, depending on how the rest of his career goes, he'll could become one. That win legitimised him as a quality heavyweight - if he ends up being remembered as the world champion who barely fought, failed a load of drug tests and came back because he was desperate for the money and got ironed out by Joshua before never having another win of note then he'll have massively underachieved as a champion.

Ian Millarvie was touted at one time and apparently lost interest in the game.

Naandrew wrote:As for Fury ( taking the UKAD cover up away) I would say he over achieved because no one expected him to beat Wlad.

Though I can understand people including him because had he not gone off the rails and obtained wins over Joshua and Wilder he would be considered an ATG.

I agree, he went from punching himself to the heavyweight title. It was the worst fight I've ever seen, but that doesn't lessen the accomplishment. He's overrated by many, not an underachiever.

Noxy wrote:Ian Millarvie was touted at one time and apparently lost interest in the game.

Saw his as an amateur and pro and was never overly impressed tbh. Didn't he have a couple of low key fights recently? Either that or he was meant to.

dirk2686 wrote:Gavin jumps out for me. Just seemed to fall apart before he really got going. I remember the hype before the 2008 Olympics and he was so far beyond everyone else it was unreal. To think from that group DeGale, Saunders and Yafai all went on to win world titles and despite his ability Frankie never got to European seems strange.

This in no way is to be about Gavin as he is pretty much a massive underachiever and borderline total failure as a professional but I sometimes think it can be harder to win a European title than a world title. There is only one route to the euro belt, you have to beat the one guy who is champion and he may be a quality operator while you can navigate your way to a world title by choosing a weak link which exists at many weights

Stuarty30 wrote:

Noxy wrote:Ian Millarvie was touted at one time and apparently lost interest in the game.

Saw his as an amateur and pro and was never overly impressed tbh. Didn't he have a couple of low key fights recently? Either that or he was meant to.

Aye, you're right. I think he did. Maybe he's not done yet.

I am probably going to get slaughtered for saying this but Audley Harrison anyone? Because physically everything was there with him being 6ft5, southpaw with an 86 inch reach. If he got it together he would have been absolute handful at world level.

IRLangmaid25 wrote:I am probably going to get slaughtered for saying this but Audley Harrison anyone? Because physically everything was there with him being 6ft5, southpaw with an 86 inch reach. If he got it together he would have been absolute handful at world level.

Mentioned in the OP that I thought he'd had a decent career on the grand scale of things. I see where you're coming from though. Top class amateurs obviously don't always make world class pros. Audley didn't have the heart, balls or spite to make it at world level as a pro. All things you can't really teach or learn in the gym. He was far too tentative.

Likeable big fukker though, well I always thought so.

Stuarty30 wrote:

IRLangmaid25 wrote:I am probably going to get slaughtered for saying this but Audley Harrison anyone? Because physically everything was there with him being 6ft5, southpaw with an 86 inch reach. If he got it together he would have been absolute handful at world level.

Mentioned in the OP that I thought he'd had a decent career on the grand scale of things. I see where you're coming from though. Top class amateurs obviously don't always make world class pros. Audley didn't have the heart, balls or spite to make it at world level as a pro. All things you can't really teach or learn in the gym. He was far too tentative.

Likeable big fukker though, well I always thought so.

Two Prizefighter wins, Commonwealth and European titles. It's a good career but could have been more. The mental aspect as you mention Stuarty was lacking.

IRLangmaid25 wrote:I am probably going to get slaughtered for saying this but Audley Harrison anyone? Because physically everything was there with him being 6ft5, southpaw with an 86 inch reach. If he got it together he would have been absolute handful at world level.

Yep, he was marketable too. Even as an amateur he had the gift of the gab