BoxRec

crusader wrote:I'm sure they both used to the gills, but JMM was unfortunate in how his body visibly changed (muscle, gut, bacne) in the process. He was one of those guys you could look at and immediately think 'PEDs' without actually seeing the change in his performances.

One of the best (the best?) combo punchers I've seen. It all flowed together so well and was beautiful to see at its best....he was one of the fighters I tried to emulate when I was first learning to box. I quickly learned that it wasn't as easy as he made it look...

JMM should've juiced in the Floyd fight....this was pre "I want everyone to take the test" Floyd.

IKSRTFO wrote:

crusader wrote:I'm sure they both used to the gills, but JMM was unfortunate in how his body visibly changed (muscle, gut, bacne) in the process. He was one of those guys you could look at and immediately think 'PEDs' without actually seeing the change in his performances.

One of the best (the best?) combo punchers I've seen. It all flowed together so well and was beautiful to see at its best....he was one of the fighters I tried to emulate when I was first learning to box. I quickly learned that it wasn't as easy as he made it look...

JMM should've juiced in the Floyd fight....this was pre "I want everyone to take the test" Floyd.

I don't think it would've made a difference.

gilgamesh wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:

crusader wrote:I'm sure they both used to the gills, but JMM was unfortunate in how his body visibly changed (muscle, gut, bacne) in the process. He was one of those guys you could look at and immediately think 'PEDs' without actually seeing the change in his performances.

One of the best (the best?) combo punchers I've seen. It all flowed together so well and was beautiful to see at its best....he was one of the fighters I tried to emulate when I was first learning to box. I quickly learned that it wasn't as easy as he made it look...

JMM should've juiced in the Floyd fight....this was pre "I want everyone to take the test" Floyd.

I don't think it would've made a difference.

No, wrong style completely no matter how juiced he could've been. Though I was surprised at how much stonger Mayweather seemed.

Covfefe wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:
JMM should've juiced in the Floyd fight....this was pre "I want everyone to take the test" Floyd.

I don't think it would've made a difference.

No, wrong style completely no matter how juiced he could've been. Though I was surprised at how much stonger Mayweather seemed.

Foyd's the only fighter who consistently comes back stronger after a "retirement" even if doesn't retire.

After he struggled to hurt DLH and Baldomir, he retired for about 6 mos. Comes back and beats down Hatton. Retires again for a year and a half. Comes back and is hurting JMM in almost every exchange and then beats up Mosley where years later, Mosley is saying he hits as hard as Canelo. Even Steward commented how strong he looked. Retires again, then KOs Ortiz. The funny thing is after he stays, his newfound power magically disappears.

I've always thought Floyd juiced during his retirements. That being said, your example of DLh & Baldomir being harder to hurt than hatton or JMM doesn't hold any weight. Much bigger fighters with iron chins.

IKSRTFO wrote:

Covfefe wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
I don't think it would've made a difference.

No, wrong style completely no matter how juiced he could've been. Though I was surprised at how much stonger Mayweather seemed.

Foyd's the only fighter who consistently comes back stronger after a "retirement" even if doesn't retire.

After he struggled to hurt DLH and Baldomir, he retired for about 6 mos. Comes back and beats down Hatton. Retires again for a year and a half. Comes back and is hurting JMM in almost every exchange and then beats up Mosley where years later, Mosley is saying he hits as hard as Canelo. Even Steward commented how strong he looked. Retires again, then KOs Ortiz. The funny thing is after he stays, his newfound power magically disappears.

He never retired between DLH and Hatton. Baldomir was a notorious hard chinned guy, and very hard to hurt. DLH was only ever stopped twice in his career by Hopkins and by Pacquiao in his final fight. DLH was always a tough guy, and had a strong ability to take a punch.

Hatton doesn't have the chin those guys had.

THAT'S why he got knocked out by Floyd.

He KO'd Ortiz because Ortiz was trying to give him a hug instead of punch him, and he got decked. I figure it'd be easy for even a feather fisted guy to drop you if you ain't expecting to get hit at all...of course why Ortiz was standing in the middle of a Boxing ring expecting NOT to get hit I'm sure I don't know, but that's what he thought.

gilgamesh wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:

Covfefe wrote:
No, wrong style completely no matter how juiced he could've been. Though I was surprised at how much stonger Mayweather seemed.

Foyd's the only fighter who consistently comes back stronger after a "retirement" even if doesn't retire.

After he struggled to hurt DLH and Baldomir, he retired for about 6 mos. Comes back and beats down Hatton. Retires again for a year and a half. Comes back and is hurting JMM in almost every exchange and then beats up Mosley where years later, Mosley is saying he hits as hard as Canelo. Even Steward commented how strong he looked. Retires again, then KOs Ortiz. The funny thing is after he stays, his newfound power magically disappears.

He never retired between DLH and Hatton. Baldomir was a notorious hard chinned guy, and very hard to hurt. DLH was only ever stopped twice in his career by Hopkins and by Pacquiao in his final fight. DLH was always a tough guy, and had a strong ability to take a punch.

Hatton doesn't have the chin those guys had.

THAT'S why he got knocked out by Floyd.

He KO'd Ortiz because Ortiz was trying to give him a hug instead of punch him, and he got decked. I figure it'd be easy for even a feather fisted guy to drop you if you ain't expecting to get hit at all...of course why Ortiz was standing in the middle of a Boxing ring expecting NOT to get hit I'm sure I don't know, but that's what he thought.

He did retire. That was his plan. Just so happened, Hatton called him out two months later, Floyd responded a few months after that and he decided to come back. By then he had enough time to make some things happen. Mosley has only previously been hurt by much bigger guys. Floyd previously couldn't stop Judah and Corley, and even Castillo, who would taken a beaten by the Floyd who fought Mosley.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I've always thought Floyd juiced during his retirements. That being said, your example of DLh & Baldomir being harder to hurt than hatton or JMM doesn't hold any weight. Much bigger fighters with iron chins.

I remember reading that Floyd claimed DLH demanded 10oz heavyweight gloves for their fight. If true, maybe that had something to do with not hurting him.

Badhusker wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I've always thought Floyd juiced during his retirements. That being said, your example of DLh & Baldomir being harder to hurt than hatton or JMM doesn't hold any weight. Much bigger fighters with iron chins.

I remember reading that Floyd claimed DLH demanded 10oz heavyweight gloves for their fight. If true, maybe that had something to do with not hurting him.

I think he did hurt him. I think it was the ninth round, he backed off. Obviously those counter rights stung enough for Oscar to stop throwing his jab. Oh, that's right he just stopped on his own volition.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Badhusker wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I've always thought Floyd juiced during his retirements. That being said, your example of DLh & Baldomir being harder to hurt than hatton or JMM doesn't hold any weight. Much bigger fighters with iron chins.

I remember reading that Floyd claimed DLH demanded 10oz heavyweight gloves for their fight. If true, maybe that had something to do with not hurting him.

I think he did hurt him. I think it was the ninth round, he backed off. Obviously those counter rights stung enough for Oscar to stop throwing his jab. Oh, that's right he just stopped on his own volition.

Yup lol. I still can't believe it wasn't a unanimous decision. Floyd more than doubled Oscar's connect %. I didn't really care who won, but thought Floyd clearly won.

Very easy fight to score, 9-3 Floyd, 8-4 at best if Oscar's wild missing turned you on in the 12th.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I've always thought Floyd juiced during his retirements. That being said, your example of DLh & Baldomir being harder to hurt than hatton or JMM doesn't hold any weight. Much bigger fighters with iron chins.

What about Floyd hurting Mosley to a point that Nasim warned him in the corner that he would stop the fight? Up to that point, outside of Forrest, no one hurt Mosley to the point where he looked like he wanted to quit.

IKSRTFO wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I've always thought Floyd juiced during his retirements. That being said, your example of DLh & Baldomir being harder to hurt than hatton or JMM doesn't hold any weight. Much bigger fighters with iron chins.

What about Floyd hurting Mosley to a point that Nasim warned him in the corner that he would stop the fight? Up to that point, outside of Forrest, no one hurt Mosley to the point where he looked like he wanted to quit.

What about it?

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I've always thought Floyd juiced during his retirements. That being said, your example of DLh & Baldomir being harder to hurt than hatton or JMM doesn't hold any weight. Much bigger fighters with iron chins.

What about Floyd hurting Mosley to a point that Nasim warned him in the corner that he would stop the fight? Up to that point, outside of Forrest, no one hurt Mosley to the point where he looked like he wanted to quit.

What about it?

It is questionable and it holds weight.

IKSRTFO wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:
What about Floyd hurting Mosley to a point that Nasim warned him in the corner that he would stop the fight? Up to that point, outside of Forrest, no one hurt Mosley to the point where he looked like he wanted to quit.

What about it?

It is questionable and it holds weight.

Ok

IKSRTFO wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:
What about Floyd hurting Mosley to a point that Nasim warned him in the corner that he would stop the fight? Up to that point, outside of Forrest, no one hurt Mosley to the point where he looked like he wanted to quit.

What about it?

It is questionable and it holds weight.

Badhusker wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
Look how authentic that cake is! They even have the hypodermic needle in JMM's ass... Wow, fantastic realism.

I think you might be seeing things?

First of all Pacquiao should have been face down to be real. As far as the needle comment, eff off. Pac fans are still crying because they thought JMM was juicing. The funny thing is, he agreed to take any tests as long as Pacquiao had to do the same. Team Pac then dropped the request.

Ok, let's not tear this scab off again and discuss old news but it's a little ridiculous of you to assume JMM was clean considering the facts from that fight and who JMM paid to be in his camp for that fight. All of a sudden JMM turns into the hardest puncher Manny has every faced. Naive and ridiculous. Not worth arguing with ridiculous people. No time for it.

caldo2025 wrote:

Badhusker wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:

I think you might be seeing things?

First of all Pacquiao should have been face down to be real. As far as the needle comment, eff off. Pac fans are still crying because they thought JMM was juicing. The funny thing is, he agreed to take any tests as long as Pacquiao had to do the same. Team Pac then dropped the request.

Ok, let's not tear this scab off again and discuss old news but it's a little ridiculous of you to assume JMM was clean considering the facts from that fight and who JMM paid to be in his camp for that fight. All of a sudden JMM turns into the hardest puncher Manny has every faced. Naive and ridiculous. Not worth arguing with ridiculous people. No time for it.

Stop lying, you've always got time to argue about Pacquiao.

Anybody ever think about how boxing history would have changed if the 3 knockdown rule had been in effect for Marquez-Pacquiao I?

Marquez was sent to the canvas on three occasions in the first round of that bout (the third knockdown was particularly damaging).

But the Mexican showed terrific recuperative powers, weathered the storm, out boxed Pac the remainder of the bout and earned a draw.

But what if the fight had been automatically halted after the third knockdown?

It would have gone into the record books as a ridiculously easy 1st round stoppage win for Pacquiao, and you can be assured that there would have been no clamor for a rematch, except perhaps from the prickly JMM.

Boxing fans would have been deprived of witnessing the dramatics of bouts 2, 3 and especially #4.

Kind of makes a great argument for the elimination of the three knockdown rule.

SenorPipino wrote:Anybody ever think about how boxing history would have changed if the 3 knockdown rule had been in effect for Marquez-Pacquiao I?

Marquez was sent to the canvas on three occasions in the first round of that bout (the third knockdown was particularly damaging).

But the Mexican showed terrific recuperative powers, weathered the storm, out boxed Pac the remainder of the bout and earned a draw.

But what if the fight had been automatically halted after the third knockdown?

It would have gone into the record books as a ridiculously easy 1st round stoppage win for Pacquiao, and you can be assured that there would have been no clamor for a rematch, except perhaps from the prickly JMM.

Boxing fans would have been deprived of witnessing the dramatics of bouts 2, 3 and especially #4.

Kind of makes a great argument for the elimination of the three knockdown rule.

To me it shows how stupid an idea that rule is. Knockdowns should be treated on their own merit, if a guy gets dropped five times and they're all flash knockdowns and he's fit to carry on the fight should go on.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I've always thought Floyd juiced during his retirements. That being said, your example of DLh & Baldomir being harder to hurt than hatton or JMM doesn't hold any weight. Much bigger fighters with iron chins.

I really doubt if "juice" helps cure ring rust, coming off nearly a 2 year retirement. People forget that JMM was #2PFP at the time, and Floyd was only favored by 2:1 odds. I said at the time, and a lot of people agreed that we would find out a lot about how Floyd vs Pac would go after Floyd and JMM fight, since JMM and Pac were neck and neck in all their fights except one. Styles make fights, and in this case, was a shutout.

Badhusker wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I've always thought Floyd juiced during his retirements. That being said, your example of DLh & Baldomir being harder to hurt than hatton or JMM doesn't hold any weight. Much bigger fighters with iron chins.

I really doubt if "juice" helps cure ring rust, coming off nearly a 2 year retirement. People forget that JMM was #2PFP at the time, and Floyd was only favored by 2:1 odds. I said at the time, and a lot of people agreed that we would find out a lot about how Floyd vs Pac would go after Floyd and JMM fight, since JMM and Pac were neck and neck in all their fights except one. Styles make fights, and in this case, was a shutout.

What does ring rust have to do with anything?

Didn't Mayweather purposely come in well over the contracted weight (forfeiting a few million $s) so that he had a clear size and strength advantage over JMM?

Marquez wasn't nearly as questionably big and buffed for the Mayweather fight as he was for bouts at the tail end of his career.

But at any weight (or even using PED) JMM could never have beaten Mayweather.

What advantages did he have? None.

Usually the smaller man might very well have the speed advantage, if nothing else.

But the smaller Mexican wasn't nearly as quick as Floyd.

He had no chance. Those short 2-1 odds against him were. extremely generous to Marquez.

SenorPipino wrote:Didn't Mayweather purposely come in well over the contracted weight (forfeiting a few million $s) so that he had a clear size and strength advantage over JMM?

Marquez wasn't nearly as questionably big and buffed for the Mayweather fight as he was for bouts at the tail end of his career.

But at any weight (or even using PED) JMM could never have beaten Mayweather.

What advantages did he have? None.

Usually the smaller man might very well have the speed advantage, if nothing else.

But the smaller Mexican wasn't nearly as quick as Floyd.

He had no chance. Those short 2-1 odds against him were. extremely generous to Marquez.

No, he paid Marquez a few hundred thousand to change the weight ahead of time. Marquez could have said no, he took the coin. He knew for days. Shows how good Floyd was. Marquez outboxed and then knocked out Manny at Welter.

IKSRTFO wrote:

Covfefe wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
I don't think it would've made a difference.

No, wrong style completely no matter how juiced he could've been. Though I was surprised at how much stonger Mayweather seemed.

Foyd's the only fighter who consistently comes back stronger after a "retirement" even if doesn't retire.

After he struggled to hurt DLH and Baldomir, he retired for about 6 mos. Comes back and beats down Hatton. Retires again for a year and a half. Comes back and is hurting JMM in almost every exchange and then beats up Mosley where years later, Mosley is saying he hits as hard as Canelo. Even Steward commented how strong he looked. Retires again, then KOs Ortiz. The funny thing is after he stays, his newfound power magically disappears.

Because his hands are fucked. It's not even a mystery. His hands have been a mess for over a decade and he still manages to get the wins. He's always had power, look at the Corales fight.