BoxRec

You're welcome. It was fun making the list. There are so many good fighters that are all but forgotton.

Very good effort. I've never the patience to do a full 100. The most I've ever done at any weight is 20-30. Which is quite lazy from me.

It's all about opinions, and it's a difficult criteria at these lower weights when boxers fight at multiple weights... you have to consider actual achievement at the weight, longevity, how good they actually were at the weight

Example, for me Roy Jones was sensational at 160, ratter than Hopkins ever was or would be. But he spent a fraction of the time there while Hopkins unified. It's extremely difficult to quantify that.

I'd agree with whoever said Benn and eubank should feature. But I am English so...

Most the best names are there in broadly speaking logically order... so thumbs up from me

Ambling Alp II wrote:
31. Billy Papke
32. Les Darcey
33. Randy Turpin
34. Young Corbet III
35. Michael Nunn
36. Bobo Olsen
37. Carmen Basilio
38. Marcel Thil
39. Billy Conn
40. Teddy Yarosz
41. Lou Broulliard
42. Rocky Graziano
43. Gorilla Jones
44. Mike O’Dowd
45. Ken Overlin
46. Vince Dundee
47. Bennie Briscoe
48. Paul Pender
49. Sumbu Kalambay
50. Cerfino Garcia
51. Al Hostak
52. Solly Krueger
53. Fred Apostoli
54. Len Harvey
55. Thomas Hearns
56. Saul Alvarez
57. Johnny Wilson
58. Al McCoy
59. Jeff Smith
60. Eddie McGootry
61. George Chip
62. Frank Klaus

2 Cents: Frank Klaus and Billy Papke probably shouldn't be separated by 31 ranking steps, but not sure if Papke should come down or in Klaus should go up.

Ray Robinson is your number 1 Middleweight??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

SRR's record at Middleweight is very spotty... For instance SRR's Middleweight Title Defense record is 3-3 with 2 KO wins... Middleweights decked him 6 X

In sharp contrast Gennady Golovkin's Middleweight Title Defense record is 18-0 with 17 KO's... No Middleweight ever came close to decking him...

There is no doubt that Triple-G would clean up the slender and vulnerable Robinson if they met.

Also...Jermain Taylor doesn't rank over Kelly Pavlik who beat him twice, once by KO... Pavlik has never been stopped and Taylor was stopped repeatedly... Pavlik fell into drug and alcohol abuse as his fame grew and he didn't handle the adulation well -- but I don't think his truncated career should be counted against a prime Pavlik.. Prime Pavlik jabbed and boxed the piss out of Taylor once, and knocked him stiff on another occasion.. He was a 6'2" Middleweight with a long reach and terrific punching power.. He would certainly would give Robinson living Hell at 160. His Middleweight Title Defense record is 4-1 with 3 KO wins.

Kalan wrote:Ray Robinson is your number 1 Middleweight??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

SRR's record at Middleweight is very spotty... For instance SRR's Middleweight Title Defense record is 3-3 with 2 KO wins... Middleweights decked him 6 X

In sharp contrast Gennady Golovkin's Middleweight Title Defense record is 18-0 with 17 KO's... No Middleweight ever came close to decking him...

There is no doubt that Triple-G would clean up the slender and vulnerable Robinson if they met.

Also...Jermain Taylor doesn't rank over Kelly Pavlik who beat him twice, once by KO... Pavlik has never been stopped and Taylor was stopped repeatedly... Pavlik fell into drug and alcohol abuse as his fame grew and he didn't handle the adulation well -- but I don't think his truncated career should be counted against a prime Pavlik.. Prime Pavlik jabbed and boxed the piss out of Taylor once, and knocked him stiff on another occasion.. He was a 6'2" Middleweight with a long reach and terrific punching power.. He would certainly would give Robinson living Hell at 160. His Middleweight Title Defense record is 4-1 with 3 KO wins.

We are going to find out much about him in 10 days.

What about him ?!?!

Back in 2001 RING did the 20 best Middleweights of all time... Greb was #1, Robinson #2, Monzon #3, Hagler #4, LaMotta #5, Burley #6, Flowers #7, Ketchell #8, Walker #9, Conn #10, Cerdan #11, Zale #12, Griffith #13, Tiger #14, Fullmer #15, Hopkins #16, Valdes #17, Fitzsimmons #18, Ryan #19, Giardello #20.

Btw, what the hell is your justification for NOT having Archie Moore on the top 100 list? He fought the first fourteen years of his career as a Middleweight and was ducked for years, never given a shot at the title. Yet you have Rubin Carter and bloody awful Alan Minter? Come on now.

Kalan wrote:What about him ?!?!

You don't think this is Triple-Gs career defining fight?

HomicideHenry wrote:Back in 2001 RING did the 20 best Middleweights of all time... Greb was #1, Robinson #2, Monzon #3, Hagler #4, LaMotta #5, Burley #6, Flowers #7, Ketchell #8, Walker #9, Conn #10, Cerdan #11, Zale #12, Griffith #13, Tiger #14, Fullmer #15, Hopkins #16, Valdes #17, Fitzsimmons #18, Ryan #19, Giardello #20.

Btw, what the hell is your justification for NOT having Archie Moore on the top 100 list? He fought the first fourteen years of his career as a Middleweight and was ducked for years, never given a shot at the title. Yet you have Rubin Carter and bloody awful Alan Minter? Come on now.

Why do you think Minter was awful?

Tomasino wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:Back in 2001 RING did the 20 best Middleweights of all time... Greb was #1, Robinson #2, Monzon #3, Hagler #4, LaMotta #5, Burley #6, Flowers #7, Ketchell #8, Walker #9, Conn #10, Cerdan #11, Zale #12, Griffith #13, Tiger #14, Fullmer #15, Hopkins #16, Valdes #17, Fitzsimmons #18, Ryan #19, Giardello #20.

Btw, what the hell is your justification for NOT having Archie Moore on the top 100 list? He fought the first fourteen years of his career as a Middleweight and was ducked for years, never given a shot at the title. Yet you have Rubin Carter and bloody awful Alan Minter? Come on now.

Why do you think Minter was awful?

Minter was good... For an Englishman... He was just simply a transitional figure in boxing... His brutal bludgeoning at the hands of Hagler, I think speaks volumes to the fact that the man was several rungs below the real good and great middleweights of all time. Tough man, sure, but let's face it he was a good European middleweight who found good fortune, but he was never really beyond the European level.

HomicideHenry wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:Back in 2001 RING did the 20 best Middleweights of all time... Greb was #1, Robinson #2, Monzon #3, Hagler #4, LaMotta #5, Burley #6, Flowers #7, Ketchell #8, Walker #9, Conn #10, Cerdan #11, Zale #12, Griffith #13, Tiger #14, Fullmer #15, Hopkins #16, Valdes #17, Fitzsimmons #18, Ryan #19, Giardello #20.

Btw, what the hell is your justification for NOT having Archie Moore on the top 100 list? He fought the first fourteen years of his career as a Middleweight and was ducked for years, never given a shot at the title. Yet you have Rubin Carter and bloody awful Alan Minter? Come on now.

Why do you think Minter was awful?

Minter was good... For an Englishman... He was just simply a transitional figure in boxing... His brutal bludgeoning at the hands of Hagler, I think speaks volumes to the fact that the man was several rungs below the real good and great middleweights of all time. Tough man, sure, but let's face it he was a good European middleweight who found good fortune, but he was never really beyond the European level.

He was the undisputed champion. Do you think he got lucky to get the title? Marvin done him on cuts, which he was prone to.

We're also talking about an era with far fewer belts to win to become undisputed champion, and the man Minter defeated was ALSO another transitional figure in the sport (Antuoferno) who also won his belt from yet another transitional figure (Corro) who also won his titles from Valdes who was at the end of his career damn near.

You realize it was much harder to win a world title back then, right? Having fewer belts makes it harder, not easier.
I don't think anyone is arguing that Minter was a legend or anything. He did have a few nice wins. I had him at #64. Antufermo did get a draw with haler. (Yes, I know all about the "robbery".)

You wanted Archie Moore in there. Fine, that's arguable. Why is Archie Moore did at middleweight was really that much more impressive than Minter?

You want to call him a transitional figure, fine. You could say the same thing about your guy Max Baer as a heavyweight.

HomicideHenry wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:Back in 2001 RING did the 20 best Middleweights of all time... Greb was #1, Robinson #2, Monzon #3, Hagler #4, LaMotta #5, Burley #6, Flowers #7, Ketchell #8, Walker #9, Conn #10, Cerdan #11, Zale #12, Griffith #13, Tiger #14, Fullmer #15, Hopkins #16, Valdes #17, Fitzsimmons #18, Ryan #19, Giardello #20.

Btw, what the hell is your justification for NOT having Archie Moore on the top 100 list? He fought the first fourteen years of his career as a Middleweight and was ducked for years, never given a shot at the title. Yet you have Rubin Carter and bloody awful Alan Minter? Come on now.

Why do you think Minter was awful?

Minter was good... For an Englishman... He was just simply a transitional figure in boxing... His brutal bludgeoning at the hands of Hagler, I think speaks volumes to the fact that the man was several rungs below the real good and great middleweights of all time. Tough man, sure, but let's face it he was a good European middleweight who found good fortune, but he was never really beyond the European level.

There is no "European level"... There are great European boxers and terrible European boxers like Alan Minter... Great European boxers who are the best boxers in the world in their respective divisions include: Anthony Joshua... Oleksandr Uysk... Gennady Golovkin... and Vasyl Lomachenko... Minter never learned how to box or defend himself.. Antony Joshua isn't "Good for an Englishman" He's possibly the best Heavyweight in the history of the sport.

It may have been tougher to become a champ in those days, but you virtually never see someone become an undisputed champ (every major title) these days.

There are a lot of "undisputed champion" in Boxing these days... Those are the guys nobody wants to fight (like Gary Russell) so they just duck them. Russell is obviously the best featherweight -- but how does he prove it if the all the other top featherweights can avoid him???

Kalan wrote: There is no "European level"... There are great European boxers and terrible European boxers like Alan Minter... Great European boxers who are the best boxers in the world in their respective divisions include: Anthony Joshua... Oleksandr Uysk... Gennady Golovkin... and Vasyl Lomachenko... Minter never learned how to box or defend himself.. Antony Joshua isn't "Good for an Englishman" He's possibly the best Heavyweight in the history of the sport.

BEST HEAVYWEIGHT IN THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT?!?!?! Lennox Lewis would have used the man as his sparring partner, that's about it. Hell I think Frank Bruno probably would have iced the kid.

Anyways.... It was different in earlier eras... Good/Great European boxers were few and far between... That's why guys like Marcel Cerdan was a pleasant surprise... They seldom ever got over the hump to be international worth, let alone stars... Period.

Ambling Alp II wrote:You realize it was much harder to win a world title back then, right? Having fewer belts makes it harder, not easier.
I don't think anyone is arguing that Minter was a legend or anything. He did have a few nice wins. I had him at #64. Antufermo did get a draw with haler. (Yes, I know all about the "robbery".)

You wanted Archie Moore in there. Fine, that's arguable. Why is Archie Moore did at middleweight was really that much more impressive than Minter?

You want to call him a transitional figure, fine. You could say the same thing about your guy Max Baer as a heavyweight.

There were many "World Champion" boxers in all the golden ages of Yesteryear who would never get close to a Lineal World Title today... Max Baer... Jimmy Braddock... Tommy Burns... Marvin Hart...just to mention a few Heavyweights. None of those guys would last 30 seconds with Anthony Joshua.

Now...you DID have some old timers like Joe Louis who could actually box and punch... Louis wasn't big, but he was matched with Max Baer when he had only 14 months in the professional ranks -- and not very many amateur fights.. It didn't matter...by the time one of Max Baer's wild assed swings got there Louis hit him 3 times dead on the chin.. That's what I call a mismatch...a yearling beating the trash out of a veteran with many years in the sport.

The dedication, craft, and skills of Joe Louis are typical of the talent, dedication, and skills of boxers in the year 2017 -- but very unusual in Louis's day.

HomicideHenry wrote:

Kalan wrote: There is no "European level"... There are great European boxers and terrible European boxers like Alan Minter... Great European boxers who are the best boxers in the world in their respective divisions include: Anthony Joshua... Oleksandr Uysk... Gennady Golovkin... and Vasyl Lomachenko... Minter never learned how to box or defend himself.. Antony Joshua isn't "Good for an Englishman" He's possibly the best Heavyweight in the history of the sport.

BEST HEAVYWEIGHT IN THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT?!?!?! Lennox Lewis would have used the man as his sparring partner, that's about it. Hell I think Frank Bruno probably would have iced the kid.

Anyways.... It was different in earlier eras... Good/Great European boxers were few and far between... That's why guys like Marcel Cerdan was a pleasant surprise... They seldom ever got over the hump to be international worth, let alone stars... Period.

Marcel Cerdan died in a plane crash before he got the opportunity to knock Jake LaMotta cold in about 5 rounds in a return match-up... If it weren't for a freak shoulder injury LaMotta never would have been Middleweight Champion because he was a punching bag with MANY MANY losses and a KO ratio of 28%

Lennox Lewis never saw the day when he could have avoided the murderous right hand of Anthony Joshua -- the man with 100% KO ratio... Lewis ate right hands from much lesser boxers and punchers.. He got KNOCKED DEAD with ONE SHOT on a couple of occasions... Not to mention Lewis got riddled with right hands in many other fights. Take Ray Mercer for instance. Ray hit Lennox Lewis with 78 right handers and landed only 2 on Wladimir Klitschko.. That was WAY before Wladimir even had a competent trainer in Emmanuel Steward -- so Wlad was one Hell of a lot more vulnerable to power shots early on.

Considering the people that AJ has knocked out... They were all either nonentities or were men already on the way out, or were inactive and old. Perspective is everything.

You can say the same thing about Lennox Lewis... That he fought past their prime guys... That's all BS... If those guys were younger Joshua would have put them out faster because they weren't as cagey and experienced.

Kalan wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:

Kalan wrote: There is no "European level"... There are great European boxers and terrible European boxers like Alan Minter... Great European boxers who are the best boxers in the world in their respective divisions include: Anthony Joshua... Oleksandr Uysk... Gennady Golovkin... and Vasyl Lomachenko... Minter never learned how to box or defend himself.. Antony Joshua isn't "Good for an Englishman" He's possibly the best Heavyweight in the history of the sport.

BEST HEAVYWEIGHT IN THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT?!?!?! Lennox Lewis would have used the man as his sparring partner, that's about it. Hell I think Frank Bruno probably would have iced the kid.

Anyways.... It was different in earlier eras... Good/Great European boxers were few and far between... That's why guys like Marcel Cerdan was a pleasant surprise... They seldom ever got over the hump to be international worth, let alone stars... Period.

Marcel Cerdan died in a plane crash before he got the opportunity to knock Jake LaMotta cold in about 5 rounds in a return match-up... If it weren't for a freak shoulder injury LaMotta never would have been Middleweight Champion because he was a punching bag with MANY MANY losses and a KO ratio of 28%

Lennox Lewis never saw the day when he could have avoided the murderous right hand of Anthony Joshua -- the man with 100% KO ratio... Lewis ate right hands from much lesser boxers and punchers.. He got KNOCKED DEAD with ONE SHOT on a couple of occasions... Not to mention Lewis got riddled with right hands in many other fights. Take Ray Mercer for instance. Ray hit Lennox Lewis with 78 right handers and landed only 2 on Wladimir Klitschko.. That was WAY before Wladimir even had a competent trainer in Emmanuel Steward -- so Wlad was one Hell of a lot more vulnerable to power shots early on.

Lamotta was also the best guy Cerdan ever fought so if Lamotta was awful what does that say about Cerdan whose record is so ridiculously padded that you could easily argue he wasnt even the best French MW of his time, he certainly didnt prove it against Dauthuille or Villemain. But hey, youre good at talking out of your ass so carry on...

APerno wrote:

Kalan wrote:What about him ?!?!

You don't think this is Triple-Gs career defining fight?

I thought you were talking about Pavlik -- and he was coming out of rehab or something.

Did Robinson have career defining Middleweight losses???? ... Or would Golovkin be entitled to NO losses EVER in his entire career????

klompton wrote:

Kalan wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:
BEST HEAVYWEIGHT IN THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT?!?!?! Lennox Lewis would have used the man as his sparring partner, that's about it. Hell I think Frank Bruno probably would have iced the kid.

Anyways.... It was different in earlier eras... Good/Great European boxers were few and far between... That's why guys like Marcel Cerdan was a pleasant surprise... They seldom ever got over the hump to be international worth, let alone stars... Period.

Marcel Cerdan died in a plane crash before he got the opportunity to knock Jake LaMotta cold in about 5 rounds in a return match-up... If it weren't for a freak shoulder injury LaMotta never would have been Middleweight Champion because he was a punching bag with MANY MANY losses and a KO ratio of 28%

Lennox Lewis never saw the day when he could have avoided the murderous right hand of Anthony Joshua -- the man with 100% KO ratio... Lewis ate right hands from much lesser boxers and punchers.. He got KNOCKED DEAD with ONE SHOT on a couple of occasions... Not to mention Lewis got riddled with right hands in many other fights. Take Ray Mercer for instance. Ray hit Lennox Lewis with 78 right handers and landed only 2 on Wladimir Klitschko.. That was WAY before Wladimir even had a competent trainer in Emmanuel Steward -- so Wlad was one Hell of a lot more vulnerable to power shots early on.

Lamotta was also the best guy Cerdan ever fought so if Lamotta was awful what does that say about Cerdan whose record is so ridiculously padded that you could easily argue he wasnt even the best French MW of his time, he certainly didnt prove it against Dauthuille or Villemain. But hey, youre good at talking out of your ass so carry on...

You're all ass. Cerdan beat Cyrille Delannoit to get his title shot, flooring him 4 times.. Deannoit beat Dauthuille twice... Cerdan also beat Georgie Abrams, Laverne Roach, Harold Green, Tony Zale and many other top Middleweights.. His KO ratio of 56% is twice as high as LaMotta's and he won 111 of 115 fights

Villemain lost to Norman Hayes who had a ton of losses and a KO ratio of 19% -- although Villeman DID beat Danny Nardico in Madison Square Garden New York... Nardico beat the crap out of Jake LaMotta and stopped him -- after knocking him down of course... That all reinforces the fact that Cerdan only lost to LaMotta because of the freak shoulder injury.

LaMotta often fought 175 pounders like future heavyweight contender Bob Satterfield (which he kayoed). So if his kayo percentage is low, that's partially the reason PLUS the sheer quality of men he was fighting.