BoxRec

TheCobra wrote:Cleverly is shot and no better than British level. but yeh Jack already an underrated fighter for me, just a neat style, not spectacular and gets overlooked but he beat a decent George Groves.

Yes Nathan offered very little, he didn't seem to be able to avoid being hit at all.

Jack has a very compact style and is technically very correct.

I m suspicious tbh. Hes improved dramatically. Always been good but hes starting to look suspiciously good. Remember thinking as far back as groves he was on something...he was like the terminator took great shots and just came back like nothing had happened. Was like the energiser bunny for the full 12 rounds.

His subtle movements getting better but its not like hes fighting with mayweather type slickness...i can maybe see if he completely changed his style but its pretty much the same style. But hes taking everything people can throw easier...and what hes giving out people are struggling to deal with a lot more nowadays. I dont think it was that much of a poorer cleverly. Cleverly always just stands their trying to outwork opponents. He actually made a half decent start its just that jacks just ends up overwhelming you.

bbjc wrote:I m suspicious tbh. Hes improved dramatically. Always been good but hes starting to look suspiciously good. Remember thinking as far back as groves he was on something...he was like the terminator took great shots and just came back like nothing had happened. Was like the energiser bunny for the full 12 rounds.

His subtle movements getting better but its not like hes fighting with mayweather type slickness...i can maybe see if he completely changed his style but its pretty much the same style. But hes taking everything people can throw easier...and what hes giving out people are struggling to deal with a lot more nowadays. I dont think it was that much of a poorer cleverly. Cleverly always just stands their trying to outwork opponents. He actually made a half decent start its just that jacks just ends up overwhelming you.

I was thinking the same thing when I started this thread he just seems extremely different from when I remember seeing him few years ago. He has always been a 7/10 in all departments fighter but his punch resistance makes me suspicious

kbackup408 wrote:

bbjc wrote:I m suspicious tbh. Hes improved dramatically. Always been good but hes starting to look suspiciously good. Remember thinking as far back as groves he was on something...he was like the terminator took great shots and just came back like nothing had happened. Was like the energiser bunny for the full 12 rounds.

His subtle movements getting better but its not like hes fighting with mayweather type slickness...i can maybe see if he completely changed his style but its pretty much the same style. But hes taking everything people can throw easier...and what hes giving out people are struggling to deal with a lot more nowadays. I dont think it was that much of a poorer cleverly. Cleverly always just stands their trying to outwork opponents. He actually made a half decent start its just that jacks just ends up overwhelming you.

I was thinking the same thing when I started this thread he just seems extremely different from when I remember seeing him few years ago. He has always been a 7/10 in all departments fighter but his punch resistance makes me suspicious

"His punch resistance?" Jack only got hit with anything more than an arm punch a few times in the fight. Punch resistance has nothing to do with this victory.

Cleverly was the definition of a shot fighter. He put up less of a fight than McG did. He did a very good heavy bag impression.

After watching that fight a second time, I don't think that you can draw any conclusions on where Jack stands in the division. It is not possible to determine whether Jack has improved, or whether he can compete with the likes of Gvodzyk, Beterbiev, or Stevenson, let alone Krushedner and SOGgy.

Cleverly was just that rotten.

kbackup408 wrote:

bbjc wrote:I m suspicious tbh. Hes improved dramatically. Always been good but hes starting to look suspiciously good. Remember thinking as far back as groves he was on something...he was like the terminator took great shots and just came back like nothing had happened. Was like the energiser bunny for the full 12 rounds.

His subtle movements getting better but its not like hes fighting with mayweather type slickness...i can maybe see if he completely changed his style but its pretty much the same style. But hes taking everything people can throw easier...and what hes giving out people are struggling to deal with a lot more nowadays. I dont think it was that much of a poorer cleverly. Cleverly always just stands their trying to outwork opponents. He actually made a half decent start its just that jacks just ends up overwhelming you.

I was thinking the same thing when I started this thread he just seems extremely different from when I remember seeing him few years ago. He has always been a 7/10 in all departments fighter but his punch resistance makes me suspicious

7/10 spot on assesement. I ve seen a few of his earlier fights...escala i think the boy was called and seen him against periban also against the boy that knocked him out was it edwards. The difference in him between then and now is pretty much vast.

Technically he was still very good as you say about a 7. Hes now hitting like a mule tho in comparison. Also took a lot more breathers back then...relied on boxing more. Came across to me like he was gonna be outworked as he went up the levels. Which is wierd because nowadays he looks a very hard man to outwork...think he threw 99 punches in a round against cleverly. Thats pretty massive. Always threw maybe 40 a round but he would take breathers...hence the reason he looked like he could be outworked. That periban actually outworked him. The guy de gale battered. Periban turned up out of shape against de gale tbf but he was never a world beater anyway.

Looks suspicious to me. I d be surprised to see that sort of improvement in a young novice that started training professionally. Its all the things that are hard to improve on greatly thats improved. Speed/power/stamina as well. Its not like theirs been a massive technical overhaul. He was always technically pretty good anyway.

Tanzio wrote:

kbackup408 wrote:

bbjc wrote:I m suspicious tbh. Hes improved dramatically. Always been good but hes starting to look suspiciously good. Remember thinking as far back as groves he was on something...he was like the terminator took great shots and just came back like nothing had happened. Was like the energiser bunny for the full 12 rounds.

His subtle movements getting better but its not like hes fighting with mayweather type slickness...i can maybe see if he completely changed his style but its pretty much the same style. But hes taking everything people can throw easier...and what hes giving out people are struggling to deal with a lot more nowadays. I dont think it was that much of a poorer cleverly. Cleverly always just stands their trying to outwork opponents. He actually made a half decent start its just that jacks just ends up overwhelming you.

I was thinking the same thing when I started this thread he just seems extremely different from when I remember seeing him few years ago. He has always been a 7/10 in all departments fighter but his punch resistance makes me suspicious

"His punch resistance?" Jack only got hit with anything more than an arm punch a few times in the fight. Punch resistance has nothing to do with this victory.

Cleverly was the definition of a shot fighter. He put up less of a fight than McG did. He did a very good heavy bag impression.

After watching that fight a second time, I don't think that you can draw any conclusions on where Jack stands in the division. It is not possible to determine whether Jack has improved, or whether he can compete with the likes of Gvodzyk, Beterbiev, or Stevenson, let alone Krushedner and SOGgy.

Cleverly was just that rotten.

Comparisons not really on just the cleverly fight. But his improvement over the last year or two. His punch resistance was incredible against groves.

bbjc wrote:

Tanzio wrote:

kbackup408 wrote:
I was thinking the same thing when I started this thread he just seems extremely different from when I remember seeing him few years ago. He has always been a 7/10 in all departments fighter but his punch resistance makes me suspicious

"His punch resistance?" Jack only got hit with anything more than an arm punch a few times in the fight. Punch resistance has nothing to do with this victory.

Cleverly was the definition of a shot fighter. He put up less of a fight than McG did. He did a very good heavy bag impression.

After watching that fight a second time, I don't think that you can draw any conclusions on where Jack stands in the division. It is not possible to determine whether Jack has improved, or whether he can compete with the likes of Gvodzyk, Beterbiev, or Stevenson, let alone Krushedner and SOGgy.

Cleverly was just that rotten.

Comparisons not really on just the cleverly fight. But his improvement over the last year or two. His punch resistance was incredible against groves.

I suppose you are talking about his improvement since Edwards. I tend to disagree with you.

Going all the way back to Periban, he should have won that decision, imo. Jack was being touted as a future major player going into the Edwards fight. He got caught cold early and could not recover. Just that simple. It is not like he is the first or will be the last good boxer with decent punch resistance to have that happen.

Jack's career arch should not be measured by or from the Edwards fight. The circumstances involving that fight, which was treated as essentially a foregone conclusion going in, have created a skewed vision of Jack's overall body of work.

I submit that we would not be having this discussion if Jack had defeated Edwards. One punch has created the perception that Jack has improved in a spectacular unnatural manner for some. Without that one punch, Jack would simply be fulfilling his obvious potential.

I think that this victory over the corpse of Cleverly may be as much an optical illusion as his one punch and done loss to Edwards. There should have been little doubt about the outcome v Cleverly given each fighter's trajectory over the last couple of years.

Jack is an excellent boxer. He was an excellent prospect prior to the Edwards fight. I submit that his trajectory is natural, the Edwards fight was a one-off, and Jack's punch resistance should not be measured against it.

Jack is no Khan.

Tanzio wrote:

bbjc wrote:

Tanzio wrote: "His punch resistance?" Jack only got hit with anything more than an arm punch a few times in the fight. Punch resistance has nothing to do with this victory.

Cleverly was the definition of a shot fighter. He put up less of a fight than McG did. He did a very good heavy bag impression.

After watching that fight a second time, I don't think that you can draw any conclusions on where Jack stands in the division. It is not possible to determine whether Jack has improved, or whether he can compete with the likes of Gvodzyk, Beterbiev, or Stevenson, let alone Krushedner and SOGgy.

Cleverly was just that rotten.

Comparisons not really on just the cleverly fight. But his improvement over the last year or two. His punch resistance was incredible against groves.

I suppose you are talking about his improvement since Edwards. I tend to disagree with you.

Going all the way back to Periban, he should have won that decision, imo. Jack was being touted as a future major player going into the Edwards fight. He got caught cold early and could not recover. Just that simple. It is not like he is the first or will be the last good boxer with decent punch resistance to have that happen.

Jack's career arch should not be measured by or from the Edwards fight. The circumstances involving that fight, which was treated as essentially a foregone conclusion going in, have created a skewed vision of Jack's overall body of work.

I submit that we would not be having this discussion if Jack had defeated Edwards. One punch has created the perception that Jack has improved in a spectacular unnatural manner for some. Without that one punch, Jack would simply be fulfilling his obvious potential.

I think that this victory over the corpse of Cleverly may be as much an optical illusion as his one punch and done loss to Edwards. There should have been little doubt about the outcome v Cleverly given each fighter's trajectory over the last couple of years.

Jack is an excellent boxer. He was an excellent prospect prior to the Edwards fight. I submit that his trajectory is natural, the Edwards fight was a one-off, and Jack's punch resistance should not be measured against it.

Jack is no Khan.

Even excluding the edwards fight still looks suspicious to me. As you said anyone can get caught fair enough but even taking that fight out the equation theres still an absolute massive improvement over a current day jack and the one that fought periban escala etc before the edwards fight.

For an example jack through 92 punches in a single round against degale. And that was the 12th round. Thats a crazy stat. Especially when he was averaging 40 or 50 in the middle rounds against periban. Hes not tyring...hes getting stronger in these fights if anything. Taking a lot more damaging shots...against guys that are better and yet hes throwing more shots without tyring. He used to be slower. Also used to take more breathers plus his powers improved a lot. He didnt actually have that much on his shots a few years back. Now hes going up in weight and cleaning the heavier guy out in a couple of rounds. Sure he threw 99 punches in a single round against cleverly. Thats a huge amount of punches. You dont throw that early in a 12 round fight unless you know you can keep it up. And i bet he could as well. Going from throwing 40/50 punches around to sometimes going as much as the 90,s should be raising eyebrows.

Floyd has access to a better quality of PED.

In response to the PED accusations Jack is enrolled in th VADA CBP ( shown in his profile) which is legit 24/7 drug testing and when people are popped the results are public within a few days. Most recent being Current WBC & Lineal Bantamweight champion Luis Nery not so long after he became champion.

My point is there are fighters out there a LOT more suspect than him.

Naandrew wrote:In response to the PED accusations Jack is enrolled in th VADA CBP ( shown in his profile) which is legit 24/7 drug testing and when people are popped the results are public within a few days. Most recent being Current WBC & Lineal Bantamweight champion Luis Nery not so long after he became champion.

My point is there are fighters out there a LOT more suspect than him.

agreed pal, just wanted to know what people feel about Jack I for one like watching him box

Agree with the last post.

It's utterly disgraceful - and of course libellous for both the forum (where are the MODS on this?) and posters to state many of the things on here.

He is signed up to full testing.

bbjc wrote:

Tanzio wrote:

bbjc wrote:
Comparisons not really on just the cleverly fight. But his improvement over the last year or two. His punch resistance was incredible against groves.

I suppose you are talking about his improvement since Edwards. I tend to disagree with you.

Going all the way back to Periban, he should have won that decision, imo. Jack was being touted as a future major player going into the Edwards fight. He got caught cold early and could not recover. Just that simple. It is not like he is the first or will be the last good boxer with decent punch resistance to have that happen.

Jack's career arch should not be measured by or from the Edwards fight. The circumstances involving that fight, which was treated as essentially a foregone conclusion going in, have created a skewed vision of Jack's overall body of work.

I submit that we would not be having this discussion if Jack had defeated Edwards. One punch has created the perception that Jack has improved in a spectacular unnatural manner for some. Without that one punch, Jack would simply be fulfilling his obvious potential.

I think that this victory over the corpse of Cleverly may be as much an optical illusion as his one punch and done loss to Edwards. There should have been little doubt about the outcome v Cleverly given each fighter's trajectory over the last couple of years.

Jack is an excellent boxer. He was an excellent prospect prior to the Edwards fight. I submit that his trajectory is natural, the Edwards fight was a one-off, and Jack's punch resistance should not be measured against it.

Jack is no Khan.

Even excluding the edwards fight still looks suspicious to me. As you said anyone can get caught fair enough but even taking that fight out the equation theres still an absolute massive improvement over a current day jack and the one that fought periban escala etc before the edwards fight.

For an example jack through 92 punches in a single round against degale. And that was the 12th round. Thats a crazy stat. Especially when he was averaging 40 or 50 in the middle rounds against periban. Hes not tyring...hes getting stronger in these fights if anything. Taking a lot more damaging shots...against guys that are better and yet hes throwing more shots without tyring. He used to be slower. Also used to take more breathers plus his powers improved a lot. He didnt actually have that much on his shots a few years back. Now hes going up in weight and cleaning the heavier guy out in a couple of rounds. Sure he threw 99 punches in a single round against cleverly. Thats a huge amount of punches. You dont throw that early in a 12 round fight unless you know you can keep it up. And i bet he could as well. Going from throwing 40/50 punches around to sometimes going as much as the 90,s should be raising eyebrows.

I don't get this suspicion. People improve their training, their skills, their power, their stamina, their nutrition, their habits, etc., all the time.

As others have mentioned, Jack is thoroughly tested.

Why is it that when a boxer applies himself and improves on every visible level that it must come down to cheating? At my advanced age, I can improve my speed, quickness, power, stamina, etc., without PEDs. Why couldn't Jack?

Badou Jack has worked hard and won hard fought close contests with world class opponents, as well as earning a very tough draw with DeGale. We would be hard pressed to identify anyone with a tougher schedule over the last couple of years.

Jack deserves to be lauded for his hard work and excellent accomplishments, not be the subject of unwarrented accusations and suspicions. Criticize him when you have real evidence to base that criticism on.

Boxing needs more Badou Jacks.

Loynesy wrote:Agree with the last post.

It's utterly disgraceful - and of course libellous for both the forum (where are the MODS on this?) and posters to state many of the things on here.

He is signed up to full testing.

It always amuses me how the mere mention of the name FW sends the mods into defcon4 mode yet all manner of gratuitous libellous abuse against prominent, highly respected figures in the boxing world goes unchecked.

I actually think Badou Jack is comfortably a top 10 p4p fighter.

He beat Degale hands down and Groves. He should have been lineal super middleweight champion

Ffs guys its a boxing forum. The guys came on and asked everyones opinion. Amuses me that theres people sitting behind there computers ready to be offended on someones opinion of badou jack.

My opinions still the same look at the majority of guys at the top of the rankings not many of them suddenly became that much fitter/stronger/hitting a lot harder etc after the novice stage. They ve maybe got better technically. Or came on in other ways experienve etc but its pretty rare these things improved completely. Hes doubling his punch stats in some rounds. It happens but all of them look suspicious when very few are making these massive improvements in fitness...strength...speed...power.

First time i seen jack was against groves. I remember thinking watching it this guys got to be on something. Groves landed plenty...and groves shots wears you down. Froch whos got an iron chin was all over the place against groves. And yet jack barely flinched...just kept coming back out round after round as fresh as the last round. His punch power never really wavered. I know their athletes but 12 rounds is still a task for anyone in a fight where guys are throwing 60 punches a round.

Usually if guys improve that much...theres a reason for it.

Maybe it is testament to jack. But for me anyway i m suspicious. They can get round testing nowadays.

Naandrew wrote:I actually think Badou Jack is comfortably a top 10 p4p fighter.

He beat Degale hands down and Groves. He should have been lineal super middleweight champion

Agree top 10 p4p.. Still think groves might have beat him tho. It was tight. Could have went either way imo. A lot had it in for groves after froch hence why no one complained about it. If it was at home or no knockdown in the first i think he might have got the nod. But going into that fight everyone had groves winning an easy world title. No one realised beast jack was gonna turn up.

Where did he come from...cause we never seen that up to that point.

I've never really rated cleverly tbh, and since the kovalev fight he's been a boxer with a broken soul imo

But credit where it's due jack dismantled him. Groves and degale much better than cleverly though. Different level of boxer

I think jack is the most underrated fighter in the sport.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I think jack is the most underrated fighter in the sport.

You could be right

bbjc wrote:Ffs guys its a boxing forum. The guys came on and asked everyones opinion. Amuses me that theres people sitting behind there computers ready to be offended on someones opinion of badou jack.

My opinions still the same look at the majority of guys at the top of the rankings not many of them suddenly became that much fitter/stronger/hitting a lot harder etc after the novice stage. They ve maybe got better technically. Or came on in other ways experienve etc but its pretty rare these things improved completely. Hes doubling his punch stats in some rounds. It happens but all of them look suspicious when very few are making these massive improvements in fitness...strength...speed...power.

First time i seen jack was against groves. I remember thinking watching it this guys got to be on something. Groves landed plenty...and groves shots wears you down. Froch whos got an iron chin was all over the place against groves. And yet jack barely flinched...just kept coming back out round after round as fresh as the last round. His punch power never really wavered. I know their athletes but 12 rounds is still a task for anyone in a fight where guys are throwing 60 punches a round.

Usually if guys improve that much...theres a reason for it.

Maybe it is testament to jack. But for me anyway i m suspicious. They can get round testing nowadays.

agreed pal couldn't agree more I just wanted to know what peoples opinions were in no way was I trying to troll or take the piss or accuse someone

Naandrew wrote:I actually think Badou Jack is comfortably a top 10 p4p fighter.

He beat Degale hands down and Groves. He should have been lineal super middleweight champion

Wasnt that sudden though. Think just underrated. I remember thinking this is groves easiest chance for a title. Then after the fight. Saying jack looks good

Thought jack looked really good against cleverly. But ive never rated cleverly. But jack battered him similar to when the crusher bashed him