BoxRec

Ambling Alp II wrote:Mayweather's win over Canelo or Corrales is nowhere near as impressive as beating a prime James Toney. Toney was a far better fighter than those two. He could occasionally be lazy, but he wasn't against Jones. Jones was simply way too good for him.

golden oldie wrote:I don't think the facts that Toney had weighed in at 180 only 6 months prior to fighting Jones, never attempted to fight at S / Middle again afterwards, and was indeed fighting at Cruiser only 13 months later and only thrice managed to make Light Heavy after that can be ignored.

Wasn't there some story about Toney running round Las Vegas threatening bodily harm to his manageress for getting him to fight at 168 when he claimed it was killing him to make weight?

Ambling Alp II wrote:Delecately outboxed? Was Toney "delicately staggered" and "delicately knocked down"? What do you call all the Mayweather hide and seek fights?

I must say I'm a little surprised that you are using your "biased card" so early. This is pretty early to use one of your favorite go to's. lol

It should be self explanatory that people have to resort to Diego Corrales as a big deal. Doesn't remotely compare to beating Toney convincingly.

Yes Mayweather kicked glass jaw "Diego Corrales" ass. So did legends like Castillo, Casamayor, and Clottey. Should we be sing their praises as well?

Kalan wrote:You can't match one guy who fought from Super Featherweight to Super Welterweight with another guy who fought from Super Welterweight to Heavyweight at a totally different time scale.. You can't even do a hypothetical and say if Floyd were a Super Middleweight how would it have gone? The fact is smaller guys are faster and fight differently than guys at higher weights.. It's like asking what kind of center would Bob Cousy be? He was a guard not a center -- so it's like asking what kind of a pope he would be.

What you can do is ask who the better fighter was -- not who would beat who in a hypothetical match-up if they were the same size.. That's unknowable.. Heavyweights aren't the same size are they?? You don't ask what if they were the same size??? Being bigger, stronger, taller, and longer are all assets -- just like speed, power, and skill.. You don't ask, "If he were faster how would they match-up?"

Floyd got hit less and was more accurate than Roy.. He didn't have have the solid hands or punching power of Roy.. He had a lot more finesse.. He had better feints and leads. He was smarter and made better adjustments. He didn't take the risks Roy took against Tarver, so he wouldn't get caught like that.

They were both great fighters and Floyd was better -- and that doesn't take anything away from Roy Jones.

golden oldie wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:

golden oldie wrote:I don't think the facts that Toney had weighed in at 180 only 6 months prior to fighting Jones, never attempted to fight at S / Middle again afterwards, and was indeed fighting at Cruiser only 13 months later and only thrice managed to make Light Heavy after that can be ignored.

Wasn't there some story about Toney running round Las Vegas threatening bodily harm to his manageress for getting him to fight at 168 when he claimed it was killing him to make weight?

The same can be said for Corrales. He was dealing with severe personal issues and he should've been fighting at 135-140 at that point.

I don't know what personal issues have got to do with anything. Chico had won the 130 title, and had 4 more fights at the weight ( with the IBF not ranking Juuko that fight wasn't sanctioned as a defence ) then got a severe beating from Mayweather. After that the man only weighed more than the Lightweight limit once in 4 + years.

There is no comparison whatsoever between that and the weight Toney put on within 18 months of fighting Jones. He simply couldn't hit 168 after that fight. Whereas 2 yrs 9 months after getting annihilated by Mayweather Chico weighed in at 128, and 130, 5 months after that.

Nope, no comparison at all.

golden oldie wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:

golden oldie wrote:
I don't know what personal issues have got to do with anything. Chico had won the 130 title, and had 4 more fights at the weight ( with the IBF not ranking Juuko that fight wasn't sanctioned as a defence ) then got a severe beating from Mayweather. After that the man only weighed more than the Lightweight limit once in 4 + years.

There is no comparison whatsoever between that and the weight Toney put on within 18 months of fighting Jones. He simply couldn't hit 168 after that fight. Whereas 2 yrs 9 months after getting annihilated by Mayweather Chico weighed in at 128, and 130, 5 months after that.

Nope, no comparison at all.

Going to prison will definitely affect training for the biggest fight of your career don't you think?

Corrales served 14 months in the Deuel Vocational Institution, a correctional facility in San Joaquin County, California, after being convicted of domestic battery on his then pregnant partner.

So you are saying the thought of getting banged up didn't affect his training for a June 2000 fight, or a September 2000 fight, but it did affect his training for a January 2001 fight.

As far as excuses, or a refusal to give the victor any credit goes, I'd say that is one of the funniest.

I think you might be confusing the domestic battery charge with

Manfredy down in Round 1 and twice in Round 3. Corrales subsequently vacates the IBF title in an aborted attempt to move up to Lightweight.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:Delecately outboxed? Was Toney "delicately staggered" and "delicately knocked down"? What do you call all the Mayweather hide and seek fights?

I must say I'm a little surprised that you are using your "biased card" so early. This is pretty early to use one of your favorite go to's. lol

It should be self explanatory that people have to resort to Diego Corrales as a big deal. Doesn't remotely compare to beating Toney convincingly.

Yes Mayweather kicked glass jaw "Diego Corrales" ass. So did legends like Castillo, Casamayor, and Clottey. Should we be sing their praises as well?

I only use the card where it fits. I rarely read this forum, much less post in it so early or late isn't much different. Toney was never hurt in that fight, doesn't make a difference,, Roy dominated but I was more impressed by Floyd's performance. Glass jawed corrales? Ok alp, sure Jones beat James Toney, so did legends like drake thadzi, Sam Peter & montell Griffin. Should we be singing their praises as well? I'm kind of surprised you don't recognized how biased you are, when you are. It's quite glaring.

Ezzard wrote:Both men are vastly overrated. Both ripped the sport off.

I picked Floyd and Floyd. But I wouldn't waste too much energy on thinking about it.

golden oldie wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:

golden oldie wrote:



So you are saying the thought of getting banged up didn't affect his training for a June 2000 fight, or a September 2000 fight, but it did affect his training for a January 2001 fight.

As far as excuses, or a refusal to give the victor any credit goes, I'd say that is one of the funniest.

I think you might be confusing the domestic battery charge with

Manfredy isn't the best fight of your career...not even the #2 challenge at the weight for Corrales.

Irrelevant Nonsense.

You're claim was that Diego ONLY lost due to the fact he could NOT fully concentrate on training because he had a prison sentence hanging over his head for beating the crap out of his pregnant girlfriend. I am saying you are palpably WRONG. Not only do the court dates, NOT add up ( from you're moronic claim ) but Corrales was the one desperate for both the Mayweather fight, and the recognition that he might of gained if the Californian had miraculously won.

However!!! Mayweather beat the shite out of him with consumate ease.

Excuses are either needed, or required.

golden oldie wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:

golden oldie wrote:
Irrelevant Nonsense.

You're claim was that Diego ONLY lost due to the fact he could NOT fully concentrate on training because he had a prison sentence hanging over his head for beating the crap out of his pregnant girlfriend. I am saying you are palpably WRONG. Not only do the court dates, NOT add up ( from you're moronic claim ) but Corrales was the one desperate for both the Mayweather fight, and the recognition that he might of gained if the Californian had miraculously won.

However!!! Mayweather beat the shite out of him with consumate ease.

Excuses are either needed, or required.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying it is as much a factor as James Toney being drained. People can't take away Jones win over Toney then say Floyd beat a fresh Corrales. And Toney also wanted the Jones fight. If Toney losing the Jones fight was because of cutting weight, Corrales losing the Floyd fight is because of his distractions.

So what is your latest claim? Diego beat Manfredy, immediately went home battered the girlfriend, then thought " whoops this will interfere with my training for my fight in 3 months time. "

It just gets funnier.

Above is nothing more than your opinion, here are a few FACTS.

In the whole of 93, and most of 94 up until meeting Jones in November of that year Toney had 10 fights,. In 7 of them he was over the S / Middle limit.

I'm really not interested in reading the so called emotional problems of a fighter, compared to obvious weight making issues. This is mainly due to the fact that it ends up with the Tyson excuse mongering bull shite for the Douglas loss, when in fact if anyone had an excuse for losing it would have been Buster whose mother passed away 3 weeks before the fight.

But no it was poor little Mikey who had problems, screwing whores, drinking beer, and smoking weed. GTFOH with these pathetic excuses.

golden oldie wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:

golden oldie wrote:

So what is your latest claim? Diego beat Manfredy, immediately went home battered the girlfriend, then thought " whoops this will interfere with my training for my fight in 3 months time. "

It just gets funnier.

Above is nothing more than your opinion, here are a few FACTS.

In the whole of 93, and most of 94 up until meeting Jones in November of that year Toney had 10 fights,. In 7 of them he was over the S / Middle limit.

I'm really not interested in reading the so called emotional problems of a fighter, compared to obvious weight making issues. This is mainly due to the fact that it ends up with the Tyson excuse mongering bull shite for the Douglas loss, when in fact if anyone had an excuse for losing it would have been Buster whose mother passed away 3 weeks before the fight.

But no it was poor little Mikey who had problems, screwing whores, drinking beer, and smoking weed. GTFOH with these pathetic excuses.

FACT, James Toney will likely get in the IBHOF his first year of eligibility. Corrales has has been eligible for the last five years.

MORE FACTS.

Corrales had 45 fights, won world titles in only 2 weights, and was dead at 29 years of age.

Toney had 90 fights ( coincidentally over 29 years ) winning world titles at 5 weights, and was fighting until he was 48 years of age.

Hmmmm, I wonder why that would impress people at the IBHOF? Could it be that he was NEVER a human punchbag that people knocked out for fun, like Jones Jr ended up being?

All of which though true has no bearing whatsoever on yet another FACT that Mayweather knocked Corrales over like a bowling pin 5 times and forced his corner to throw the towel in for his own benefit. Who ever did that to Toney? It certainly wasn't glass chinned Jones.

Here is another little fact or 2.

Even though he only had half the fights Chico's KO % was 73, compared to James' 51. Yet still Mayweather treated him with total contempt, and battered him into submission. Something your superman hero couldn't manage against a weight drained Toney.

Going into the Jones fight Toney had had 46 fights being taken the distance 17 times. Corrales on the other hand had had 33 fights with only 5 going the distance, 2 of which were 4 rounders.

I hope you still insist that Jones' win over Toney was more meaningful than Mayweather's annihilation of Corrales. Easy laughs are sometimes difficult to come by these days.