BoxRec

IronFrost wrote:Who wins those fantasy fights?

Holyfield (LL version) vs Povetkin (Wladimir's version)

Haye (Wladimir's] vs Tua (Lewis's version)


Galota (LL] vs Wach (WK)

Briggs (LL) vs Pulev (WK)

Morrison (LL) vs Jennings (WK)

Grant (LL) vs Chagaev (WK)

Bruno (LL) VS Sultan Ibragimov (WK)

Zeljko Mavrovic (LL] vs Byrd (WK)

Shouldn't this be possible to the history section?

Interesting that some of Lewis' and Klitschko's opponents had fought each other:

Chris Byrd beat David Tua (who was in good shape)
Jameel McCline demolished Michael Grant and beat up Shannon Briggs
Ray Austin stopped Golota (shot version though) in one round
Sultan Ibragimov schooled Shannon Briggs
Povetkin demolished Rahman (shot version) in two rounds
Davarryl Williamson beat Oliver McCall
Lamon Brewster demolished Golota in 52 seconds
Chris Byrd W12 Evander Holyfield (washed up version)
Chris Byrd RTD9 Vitali Klitschko
Chris Byrd W10 Levi Billups
Chris Byrd TKO8 Lionel Butler
Chris Byrd W12 Phil Jackson
Chris Byrd D12 Golota

So, Klitschko's opponents won 13 out of 14 actual fights against Lewis' opponents with 1 draw.

Is Wladimir's resume really as bad as was advertised?

Boxing Writer wrote:Interesting that some of Lewis' and Klitschko's opponents had fought each other:

Chris Byrd beat David Tua (who was in good shape)
Jameel McCline demolished Michael Grant and beat up Shannon Briggs
Ray Austin stopped Golota (shot version though) in one round
Sultan Ibragimov schooled Shannon Briggs
Povetkin demolished Rahman (shot version) in two rounds
Davarryl Williamson beat Oliver McCall
Lamon Brewster demolished Golota in 52 seconds
Chris Byrd W12 Evander Holyfield (washed up version)
Chris Byrd RTD9 Vitali Klitschko
Chris Byrd W10 Levi Billups
Chris Byrd TKO8 Lionel Butler
Chris Byrd W12 Phil Jackson
Chris Byrd D12 Golota

So, Klitschko's opponents won 13 out of 14 actual fights against Lewis' opponents with 1 draw.

Is Wladimir's resume really as bad as was advertised?

You'd probably find similar numbers when comparing the opponents of champions whose primes were separated by a decade - in almost every matchup, Lewis's opponents were well past their prime. The only exceptions are Golota vs Byrd (draw fight), Tua, Grant, Vitali (via injury in a fight he was winning) and Jackson (who was never that good anyway).

Wlad's resume is weak, as long standing heavyweight champions go, but he was clearly the greatest of his era and finished his career on a high with an excellent - possibly career best - performance against Joshua.

jezzamundo wrote:

Boxing Writer wrote:Interesting that some of Lewis' and Klitschko's opponents had fought each other:

Chris Byrd beat David Tua (who was in good shape)
Jameel McCline demolished Michael Grant and beat up Shannon Briggs
Ray Austin stopped Golota (shot version though) in one round
Sultan Ibragimov schooled Shannon Briggs
Povetkin demolished Rahman (shot version) in two rounds
Davarryl Williamson beat Oliver McCall
Lamon Brewster demolished Golota in 52 seconds
Chris Byrd W12 Evander Holyfield (washed up version)
Chris Byrd RTD9 Vitali Klitschko
Chris Byrd W10 Levi Billups
Chris Byrd TKO8 Lionel Butler
Chris Byrd W12 Phil Jackson
Chris Byrd D12 Golota

So, Klitschko's opponents won 13 out of 14 actual fights against Lewis' opponents with 1 draw.

Is Wladimir's resume really as bad as was advertised?

You'd probably find similar numbers when comparing the opponents of champions whose primes were separated by a decade - in almost every matchup, Lewis's opponents were well past their prime. The only exceptions are Golota vs Byrd (draw fight), Tua, Grant, Vitali (via injury in a fight he was winning) and Jackson (who was never that good anyway)

Briggs was in his prime when he fought McCline and slightly past it when he fought Ibragimov. So it makes it closer to 50/50 than 'almost every matchup'.

Boxing Writer wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:

Boxing Writer wrote:Interesting that some of Lewis' and Klitschko's opponents had fought each other:

Chris Byrd beat David Tua (who was in good shape)
Jameel McCline demolished Michael Grant and beat up Shannon Briggs
Ray Austin stopped Golota (shot version though) in one round
Sultan Ibragimov schooled Shannon Briggs
Povetkin demolished Rahman (shot version) in two rounds
Davarryl Williamson beat Oliver McCall
Lamon Brewster demolished Golota in 52 seconds
Chris Byrd W12 Evander Holyfield (washed up version)
Chris Byrd RTD9 Vitali Klitschko
Chris Byrd W10 Levi Billups
Chris Byrd TKO8 Lionel Butler
Chris Byrd W12 Phil Jackson
Chris Byrd D12 Golota

So, Klitschko's opponents won 13 out of 14 actual fights against Lewis' opponents with 1 draw.

Is Wladimir's resume really as bad as was advertised?

You'd probably find similar numbers when comparing the opponents of champions whose primes were separated by a decade - in almost every matchup, Lewis's opponents were well past their prime. The only exceptions are Golota vs Byrd (draw fight), Tua, Grant, Vitali (via injury in a fight he was winning) and Jackson (who was never that good anyway)

Briggs was in his prime when he fought McCline and slightly past it when he fought Ibragimov. So it makes it closer to 50/50 than 'almost every matchup'.

Briggs should have been in his prime when he fought McCline, but he was 40lb above his prime fighting weight and lacked the speed and explosiveness he had when he fought Lewis. There isn't one matchup where Wlad's opponent was out of their prime, although I'll concede that calling 8 out of 13 'almost every' was an exaggeration. Let's change it to 'most'.

jezzamundo wrote:

Boxing Writer wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:
You'd probably find similar numbers when comparing the opponents of champions whose primes were separated by a decade - in almost every matchup, Lewis's opponents were well past their prime. The only exceptions are Golota vs Byrd (draw fight), Tua, Grant, Vitali (via injury in a fight he was winning) and Jackson (who was never that good anyway)

Briggs was in his prime when he fought McCline and slightly past it when he fought Ibragimov. So it makes it closer to 50/50 than 'almost every matchup'.

Briggs should have been in his prime when he fought McCline, but he was 40lb above his prime fighting weight and lacked the speed and explosiveness he had when he fought Lewis. There isn't one matchup where Wlad's opponent was out of their prime, although I'll concede that calling 8 out of 13 'almost every' was an exaggeration. Let's change it to 'most'.

Boxing Writer wrote:Interesting that some of Lewis' and Klitschko's opponents had fought each other:

Chris Byrd beat David Tua (who was in good shape)
Jameel McCline demolished Michael Grant and beat up Shannon Briggs
Ray Austin stopped Golota (shot version though) in one round
Sultan Ibragimov schooled Shannon Briggs
Povetkin demolished Rahman (shot version) in two rounds
Davarryl Williamson beat Oliver McCall
Lamon Brewster demolished Golota in 52 seconds
Chris Byrd W12 Evander Holyfield (washed up version)
Chris Byrd RTD9 Vitali Klitschko
Chris Byrd W10 Levi Billups
Chris Byrd TKO8 Lionel Butler
Chris Byrd W12 Phil Jackson
Chris Byrd D12 Golota

So, Klitschko's opponents won 13 out of 14 actual fights against Lewis' opponents with 1 draw.

Is Wladimir's resume really as bad as was advertised?

I said something similar earlier in the thread. Klitschkos will be remembered better in time.

Vitali is already remembered far better than he should be. His resume is pretty nonexistent though he does have a quality loss.

The Lewis fight should have been a quality win... He was beating Lewis on all scorecards when cuts caused by foul blows ended the fight after 6.

Ossyrules wrote:

Kalan wrote:Hmmm... I'm amazed anyone would pick Bruno to beat Ibragimov...who lost only one fight to an ATG. He was never close to being stopped. He pretty much shut out Shannon Briggs while giving up over 50 pounds on the scales. He peppered Briggs freely while avoiding his unimaginative swings.

Bruno was knocked out 5 times and pretty easy to hit.. He wasn't clever, fast, or deceptive with his offense, so good boxers eluded most of his punches.

I view Morrison vs Jennings the same way basically.. Jennings out-boxed Mike Perez who was a little on the lines of a Morrison, but physically much tougher and more durable.. With Morrison's soft chin and failure to hold a decent pace in his fights, I can't see him beating Jennings in a million years.

Igbragimov would have been stopped on a number of occasions if he fought Bruno's opponents or in that era

In fact with all due respect, you picking igbragimov is actually an endorsement for Bruno!

Igbragimov???? LOL, spoken like a true hater. You wouldn't pick him to beat anyone.

Ibragimov actually defended the title successfully. Bruno never did. Bruno was knocked out 5 times including by wide open and slow swinging James Smith in his 23rd fight... Smith was 13-1 at the time but was able to get big shots on turtle slow Bruno.. Ibragimov never came close to being knocked out and took overly muscled, slow swingers, like Shannon Briggs to school and tattooed them.. Watch the Tyson-Bruno fights. Muscle bound Bruno was so easy to hit that Tyson loaded his shots up and still cracked him right in the head. If James Smith can knock you out a quicker fisted Heavyweight can beat you.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Vitali is already remembered far better than he should be. His resume is pretty nonexistent though he does have a quality loss.

His resume isn't that bad. He beat everyone in front of him and retired Lewis.

Time will remember them better.

Kalan wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:

Kalan wrote:Hmmm... I'm amazed anyone would pick Bruno to beat Ibragimov...who lost only one fight to an ATG. He was never close to being stopped. He pretty much shut out Shannon Briggs while giving up over 50 pounds on the scales. He peppered Briggs freely while avoiding his unimaginative swings.

Bruno was knocked out 5 times and pretty easy to hit.. He wasn't clever, fast, or deceptive with his offense, so good boxers eluded most of his punches.

I view Morrison vs Jennings the same way basically.. Jennings out-boxed Mike Perez who was a little on the lines of a Morrison, but physically much tougher and more durable.. With Morrison's soft chin and failure to hold a decent pace in his fights, I can't see him beating Jennings in a million years.

Igbragimov would have been stopped on a number of occasions if he fought Bruno's opponents or in that era

In fact with all due respect, you picking igbragimov is actually an endorsement for Bruno!

Igbragimov???? LOL, spoken like a true hater. You wouldn't pick him to beat anyone.

Ibragimov actually defended the title successfully. Bruno never did. Bruno was knocked out 5 times including by wide open and slow swinging James Smith in his 23rd fight... Smith was 13-1 at the time but was able to get big shots on turtle slow Bruno.. Ibragimov never came close to being knocked out and took overly muscled, slow swingers, like Shannon Briggs to school and tattooed them.. Watch the Tyson-Bruno fights. Muscle bound Bruno was so easy to hit that Tyson loaded his shots up and still cracked him right in the head. If James Smith can knock you out a quicker fisted Heavyweight can beat you.

Difficult to compare, Bruno had the better opponents, but lost most of them. I favour Ibragimov.

Loki wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Vitali is already remembered far better than he should be. His resume is pretty nonexistent though he does have a quality loss.

His resume isn't that bad. He beat everyone in front of him and retired Lewis.

Time will remember them better.

he'll be the least deserving member of the hof. Rahman is more accomplished.

Kalan wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:

Kalan wrote:Hmmm... I'm amazed anyone would pick Bruno to beat Ibragimov...who lost only one fight to an ATG. He was never close to being stopped. He pretty much shut out Shannon Briggs while giving up over 50 pounds on the scales. He peppered Briggs freely while avoiding his unimaginative swings.

Bruno was knocked out 5 times and pretty easy to hit.. He wasn't clever, fast, or deceptive with his offense, so good boxers eluded most of his punches.

I view Morrison vs Jennings the same way basically.. Jennings out-boxed Mike Perez who was a little on the lines of a Morrison, but physically much tougher and more durable.. With Morrison's soft chin and failure to hold a decent pace in his fights, I can't see him beating Jennings in a million years.

Igbragimov would have been stopped on a number of occasions if he fought Bruno's opponents or in that era

In fact with all due respect, you picking igbragimov is actually an endorsement for Bruno!

Igbragimov???? LOL, spoken like a true hater. You wouldn't pick him to beat anyone.

Ibragimov actually defended the title successfully. Bruno never did. Bruno was knocked out 5 times including by wide open and slow swinging James Smith in his 23rd fight... Smith was 13-1 at the time but was able to get big shots on turtle slow Bruno.. Ibragimov never came close to being knocked out and took overly muscled, slow swingers, like Shannon Briggs to school and tattooed them.. Watch the Tyson-Bruno fights. Muscle bound Bruno was so easy to hit that Tyson loaded his shots up and still cracked him right in the head. If James Smith can knock you out a quicker fisted Heavyweight can beat you.

Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Witherspoon, yes I'd take them to stop igbragimov. He'd certainly fair worse against Lewis than Bruno did. Your horrendously skewed opinion is still an endorsement as it's from you

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Loki wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Vitali is already remembered far better than he should be. His resume is pretty nonexistent though he does have a quality loss.

His resume isn't that bad. He beat everyone in front of him and retired Lewis.

Time will remember them better.

he'll be the least deserving member of the hof. Rahman is more accomplished.

Disagree. Rahman only claim to fame is that he threw Thunder in Africa and got pasted in the return. I agree Vitalis resume is as good as it should've been, but that isn't his fault. He was robbed of his career defining fight when Lewis retired. A fight, at that point, he'd probably have won as Lewis was done.

Comparing Vitali against Rahman is like comparing Monzon against Jermain Taylor....

And, McGuigan and Terry Norris are less deserving.

That's silly. They're right in the same wheelhouse. Rahman actually beat Lewis and if vitali forced Lennox to retire than Rahman forced vitali to do the same. Comparing vitali to monzon is hilarious. Mcguigan is way more deserving. Vitali hasn't beaten anyone near laporte much less pedroza. He beat a fat golfer.

I think Tua would catch Haye late. Haye was all talk. Haye could win a UD but its not like Haye would be the aggressor, he's no Lewis or Ike. Haye wouldn't impress me.

Bruno is an odd one. He would "lose with dignity" everytime he stepped up... Sorry, but I find it hard to count McCall who I don't think was in a position to fight.... Bruno's victories though were against terrible opposition for a world champion.

Yes, Ibragimov wouldn't do as well vs Lewis, Witherspoon, Tyson etc. as Bruno - but at the same time Ibragimov BEAT better guys and wouldn't probably represent Bruno's best win if he did beat him.

Close to call becuase Bruno was an unknown quantity really at Ibragimov's level. I'd imagine Bruno being on top for first 5/6 rounds... but then he would fade, but would Ibragimov be good enough to capatalise.