BoxRec

ruiz has not only been in the ring with better, i think you can say hes beaten better

its ridiculous how different the tone is on the fighters (ruiz sucks, boring, screw him, etc. vs king vitali, hall of famer) considering how their accomplishments compare. yes i think vit prob wouldve won a h2h on points without remotely hurting ruiz.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:Ruiz has been in the ring with better fighters, but Vitali is clearly the better boxer of the two. His career is wafer thin but come on

C'mon what? You rate fighters on whom you think was more talented or would win h2h?

I think if they fought Ruiz gets beat

jamamb wrote:ruiz has not only been in the ring with better, i think you can say hes beaten better

its ridiculous how different the tone is on the fighters (ruiz sucks, boring, screw him, etc. vs king vitali, hall of famer) considering how their accomplishments compare. yes i think vit prob wouldve won a h2h on points without remotely hurting ruiz.

I don’t disagree with you on most of this.

However Ruiz doesn’t suck, and also Vitali is no king, but I think we can say who the better boxer was

Ossyrules wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:Ruiz has been in the ring with better fighters, but Vitali is clearly the better boxer of the two. His career is wafer thin but come on

C'mon what? You rate fighters on whom you think was more talented or would win h2h?

I think if they fought Ruiz gets beat

Me too. I also thought Erickson Lubin was going to starch Jermell Charlo.

It's sad really. If Vitali and Wlad were black brothers from Detroit their racist haters would be slobbering their shaft so much they'd need their stomach pumped to remove the jizz.

Vitali is the 2nd best HW of all time. Why? Because he'd beat any other HW in history. Athletes get better with every generation. Ali, Marciano, Louis, Frazier etc wouldn't stand a chance. There's a reason there are weight divisions in boxing and half of those guys would be cruiserweights or even light heavyweights today.

Out of fairness I put Lennox ahead because he did beat Vitali. Sure, Vitali was winning but a cuts stoppage is a legit win.

tigermoth87 wrote:It's sad really. If Vitali and Wlad were black brothers from Detroit their racist haters would be slobbering their shaft so much they'd need their stomach pumped to remove the jizz.

Vitali is the 2nd best HW of all time. Why? Because he'd beat any other HW in history. Athletes get better with every generation. Ali, Marciano, Louis, Frazier etc wouldn't stand a chance. There's a reason there are weight divisions in boxing and half of those guys would be cruiserweights or even light heavyweights today.

Out of fairness I put Lennox ahead because he did beat Vitali. Sure, Vitali was winning but a cuts stoppage is a legit win.

Ossyrules wrote:

I'm 100% right.

tigermoth87 wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:

I'm 100% right.

Completely disagree with it all

His resume is pretty weak. There's been weaker, but his reign was definitely nothing particularly special. Wlad has the superior resume by miles.

People definitely overrate Vitali.

Here is his resume of world title fights the numbers relate to the pre-fight ranking according to the PBO prior to the fight

1999 06-29 WBO VITALI KLITSCHKO 21 KO 2 HERBIE HIDE 13
1999 10-09 WBO VITALI KLITSCHKO 6 TKO 3 ED MAHONE 38
1999 12-11 WBO VITALI KLITSCHKO 6 TKO 9 OBED SULLIVAN 40
2000 04-01 WBO VITALI KLITSCHKO 4 LTKO 9 CHRIS BYRD 10
2003 06-21 WBC VITALI KLITSCHKO 9 LTKO 6 LENNOX LEWIS 1
2004 04-24 WBC VITALI KLITSCHKO 3 TKO 8 CORRIE SANDERS 6
2004 12-11 WBC VITALI KLITSCHKO 3 TKO 8 DANNY WILLIAMS 20
2008 10-11 WBC VITALI KLITSCHKO 3 W12 ud SAMUEL PETER 4
2009 03-21 WBC VITALI KLITSCHKO 2 W12 ud JUAN C GOMEZ 11
2009 09-26 WBC VITALI KLITSCHKO 2 TKO 10 CHRIS ARREOLA 20
2009 12-12 WBC VITALI KLITSCHKO 2 W12 ud KEVIN JOHNSON 42
2010 05-29 WBC VITALI KLITSCHKO 2 KO 10 ALBERT SOSNOWSKI 38
2010 10-16 WBC VITALI KLITSCHKO 2 W12 ud SHANNON BRIGGS 45
2011 03-19 WBC VITALI KLITSCHKO 2 KO 1 ODLANIER SOLIS 11
2011 09-10 WBC VITALI KLITSCHKO 2 TKO 10 TOMASZ ADAMEK 6
2012 02-18 WBC VITALI KLITSCHKO 2 W12 ud DERECK CHISORA 22
2012 09-08 WBC VITALI KLITSCHKO 2 TKO 4 MANUEL CHARR 37

The WBO Title hadn't really gained much significance yet when Wlad and Vitali first held that belt.

Naseem Hamed and Joe Calzaghe are who brought the WBO into prominence. I pretty much remember the exact moment that the WBO Belt began to be seen as equally as prestigious as the WBC, WBA and IBF.

It was in 2002 when Barrera vs Morales won the rematch over Erik Morales to gain recognition as the True Featherweight Champion at that time. After this achievement he held up his WBO Championship belt, and RIGHT after that the Boxing Magazines started holding the WBO Title in higher regard.

tigermoth87 wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:

I'm 100% retarded

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

tigermoth87 wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:

I'm 100% retarded

Here is Wlads
2000 10-14 WBO WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 18 W12 ud CHRIS BYRD 6
2001 03-24 WBO WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 5 TKO 2 DERRICK JEFFERSON 30
2001 08-24 WBO WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 8 TKO 6 CHARLES SHUFFORD 51
2002 03-16 WBO WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 6 TKO 8 FRANS BOTHA 38
2002 06-29 WBO WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 6 TKO 6 RAY MERCER 24
2002 12-07 WBO WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 5 TKO 10 JAMEEL McCLINE 11
2003 03-08 WBO WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 5 LTKO 2 CORRIE SANDERS 22
2004 04-10 WBO WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 7 LTKO 5 LAMON BREWSTER 38
2006 04-22 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 4 TKO 7 CHRIS BYRD 1
2006 11-11 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 1 TKO 7 CALVIN BROCK 10
2007 03-10 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 1 KO 2 RAY AUSTIN 21
2007 07-07 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 1 TKO 6 LAMON BREWSTER 11
2008 02-23 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 1 W12 ud SULTAN IBRAGIMOV 5
2008 07-12 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 1 KO 11 TONY THOMPSON 11
2008 12-14 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 1 TKO 7 HASHIM RAHMAN 12
2009 06-20 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 1 TKO 9 RUSLAN CHAGAEV 4
2010 03-20 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 1 KO 12 EDDIE CHAMBERS 8
2010 09-11 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 1 KO 10 SAM PETER 4
2011 07-02 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 1 W12 ud DAVID HAYE 3
2012 03-12 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 1 KO 4 JEAN MARC MORMECK 12
2012 07-07 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 1 TKO 6 TONY THOMPSON 4
2012 11-10 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 1 W12 ud MARIUS WACH 16
2013 05-04 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 1 TKO 6 FRANCESCO PIANETA 13
2013 10-26 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 1 W12 ud ALEXANDER POVETKIN 3
2014 04-26 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 1 KO 5 ALEX LEAPAI 31
2014 11-15 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 1 KO 5 KUBRAT PULEV 3
2015 04-25 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 1 W12 ud BRYANT JENNINGS 7
2015 11-28 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 1 L12 ud TYSON FURY 4
2017 00-06 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 1 LTKO 11 ANTHONY JOSHUA 6

Ossyrules wrote:

tigermoth87 wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:

I'm 100% right.

Completely disagree with it all

Which bit?

Athletes do get better with every generation. It's why records get broken. Heavyweights from the past are smaller, lighter, slower and lesser built than heavyweights today. Have worse conditioning and worse training methods.

Look at Marciano. He's 5'10 and weighed 185 at his peak. He's a cruiserweight. The same goes for most of the top heavyweights from the past, if they competed today they'd be cruiserweights. Or another way to look at it, put Vitali into Marcianos era. Would Marciano stand a chance against a 6'6 giant with excellent boxing skills and a granite chin? Would Ali stand a chance? He was oversized by Foreman who wouldn't be considered a huge heavyweight today.

No they wouldn't. Hence, Vitali is the best ever.

Please provide a list of which opponents the klitschko´s ducked? You cannot blame them for not having better opponents. They´ve never ducked anyone in my opinion. Vitali was a gifted boxer, who had a great eye and an even greater reaction. Wladimir`s step up over the years was impressive in my opinion. Wladimir was a great sports personality, Vitali surely was the greater talent.

VanDeLue wrote:Please provide a list of which opponents the klitschko´s ducked? You cannot blame them for not having better opponents. They´ve never ducked anyone in my opinion. Vitali was a gifted boxer, who had a great eye and an even greater reaction. Wladimir`s step up over the years was impressive in my opinion. Wladimir was a great sports personality, Vitali surely was the greater talent.

You cannot merge two men into one.

VanDeLue wrote:Please provide a list of which opponents the klitschko´s ducked? You cannot blame them for not having better opponents. They´ve never ducked anyone in my opinion. Vitali was a gifted boxer, who had a great eye and an even greater reaction. Wladimir`s step up over the years was impressive in my opinion. Wladimir was a great sports personality, Vitali surely was the greater talent.

If you took the 5 best wins that either Klitschko brother achieved in a Boxing ring at least 4 of them would be a Wladimir win. Therefore Wladimir was the greater talent.

Lennox wrote:Here is Wlads
2017 00-06 IBF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO 1 LTKO 11 ANTHONY JOSHUA 6

really?

gilgamesh wrote:If you took the 5 best wins that either Klitschko brother achieved in a Boxing ring at least 4 of them would be a Wladimir win. Therefore Wladimir was the greater talent.

does the term "therefore" have more
meanings than i am aware of?

man wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:If you took the 5 best wins that either Klitschko brother achieved in a Boxing ring at least 4 of them would be a Wladimir win. Therefore Wladimir was the greater talent.

has the term "therefore" have more
meanings than i am aware of?

"for that reason; consequently"

That's the meaning, and that's the way I meant it.

gilgamesh wrote:

man wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:If you took the 5 best wins that either Klitschko brother achieved in a Boxing ring at least 4 of them would be a Wladimir win. Therefore Wladimir was the greater talent.

has the term "therefore" have more
meanings than i am aware of?

"for that reason; consequently"

That's the meaning, and that's the way I meant it.

well, in this case: the fact that
wlad managed his career more
aggressively doesn't make him
the greater talent. but it does
make him the boxer who achieved
more.

man wrote: well, in this case: the fact that
wlad managed his career more
aggressively doesn't make him
the greater talent. but it does
make him the boxer who achieved
more.

I think he's the superior talent as well personally. If you don't that's fine, but I don't really see too much that Vitali ever did to have established himself as the better of the two.

gilgamesh wrote:The WBO Title hadn't really gained much significance yet when Wlad and Vitali first held that belt.

Naseem Hamed and Joe Calzaghe are who brought the WBO into prominence. I pretty much remember the exact moment that the WBO Belt began to be seen as equally as prestigious as the WBC, WBA and IBF.

It was in 2002 when Barrera vs Morales won the rematch over Erik Morales to gain recognition as the True Featherweight Champion at that time. After this achievement he held up his WBO Championship belt, and RIGHT after that the Boxing Magazines started holding the WBO Title in higher regard.

The WBO heavy title always seemed to lag behind the other divisions in terms of acceptance, the first time I was aware of their existence was watching Nigel Benn v Doug De Witt on ITV which was billed as a legitimate world title fight, of course then came along Chris Eubank and he really helped them to become mainstream, Mercer v Morrison was the first WBO heavyweight title fight I saw, the WBO was in full swing by this point but it was stressed by Harry Carpenter that the match didn't hold any water as a world title fight