BoxRec

You can always throw in a bunch of heavyweights who would have been way better if they were dedicated to training and a healthy diet-lifestyle. Tim Witherspoon, Kirk Johnson. Oliver McCall and Andrew Golota if they were saner. Pinklon Thomas if he was more assertive in the ring. he already had the skills.

Tyson. Very successful but his chaotic lifestyle definitely affected him

Conteh a great shout. He was very talented. Also agree on Louis. We are talking 40 odd defences without the war and the way he picked up after shows there really wasn't anyone to touch him in those years off.

I'm going to throw Stevenson.. don't know how long he has left.. but after Fonfara 1.. he has had plenty chance to fight the best in the division.. a fight with Kovalev was 50-50.. he should favour it more now.. not saying it's all his fault.. but we can only say 'What if..'

Joe Bugner might have done well with a good coach... He had his head in the air and even 9-fight pro Marvis Frazier couldn't miss him with a punch.

George Foreman would have done better had he learned technical boxing skills and how to pace himself and relax earlier -- instead of taking 10 prime years off.

Vitali Klitschko would have done better if he never took up a Kickboxing career and wrecked his legs... Besides getting those 4 years back he would have been able to move and maneuver better and his stance and balance would have been stronger to start off with.. He wasted time with Kickboxing because nobody watches it or is much interested in following it in most of the world -- and Boxing is a global sport that everyone follows.

Can you name a World Kickboxing Champion in combat History??? Everyone can name several World Champion Boxers.

Salvador Sanchez - Died too young
Tim Witherspoon - Suffered from lack of motivation and a corrupt political climate that didn't favor him
Corrie Sanders- Bad management, lack of devotion, distracted by his golfing career and had difficulty finding good opponents during prime
Jimmy Young - Bad management and fought unpopular style
Mike McCallum - stood in the shadow of others with more charisma. Didn't start getting recognition until the parade had basically past
Meldrick Taylor - Never seemed to fully recover mentally from the Chavez loss. If he had he might have gone further.
Ray Leonard - Okay the guy was awesome without changing much but it makes one cringe that he lost about four years of his prime.

drunkenpiper36 wrote:Salvador Sanchez - Died too young
Tim Witherspoon - Suffered from lack of motivation and a corrupt political climate that didn't favor him
Corrie Sanders- Bad management, lack of devotion, distracted by his golfing career and had difficulty finding good opponents during prime
Jimmy Young - Bad management and fought unpopular style
Mike McCallum - stood in the shadow of others with more charisma. Didn't start getting recognition until the parade had basically past
Meldrick Taylor - Never seemed to fully recover mentally from the Chavez loss. If he had he might have gone further.
Ray Leonard - Okay the guy was awesome without changing much but it makes one cringe that he lost about four years of his prime.

No Cooney?

true. He might gone further as well

I would have love to see the great Sugar Ray Leonard had much more fights. He only had 40. If he would had at least 70 fights, I probably would have rated him higher at welterweight and pound per pound.

drunkenpiper36 wrote:Meldrick Taylor - Never seemed to fully recover mentally from the Chavez loss. If he had he might have gone further.
Ray Leonard - Okay the guy was awesome without changing much but it makes one cringe that he lost about four years of his prime.

NOBODY could recover from the beating Taylor took from Chavez... You stop that fight sooner to save the man's brain.

Leonard did his whole career right from a business point of view. When he showed nothing against Kevin Howard he stayed retired, though his eye had healed.. When Hagler got tagged up and looked terrible against Mugabi 3 years later??? ..Leonard pounced... After Leonard beat Hagler there were some formidable Middleweight Challengers abounding---who were ready to rip Leonard to shreds.. He abandoned the 160-pound Title and claimed to retire.

Then he finagled a fight with unknown LHW Champion Donny Lalonde -- who he bribed to come 7 pounds down to fight for a vacant 168-pound title.. The WBC allowed Leonard to claim both the Super Middleweight and Light Heavyweight Titles in 1 fight.. You have to admit that was a stroke of genius as nobody else was ever allowed to do that.. He further was allowed to defend the 168-pound title at 160 pounds -- and against opponents of his choosing. When he was pressed to fight Michael Nunn and Mike McCallum he decided he was really a 154-pound fighter -- and targeted the supposedly chinny Terry Norris who had been iced by Julian Jackson.. That didn't work the way Leonard thought it would -- but you have marvel at Leonard's Mayweatheresque business savvy.

Oh of course. Going inactive for five years with the exception of meeting a gatekeeper in 1984 who he looked like shit against, All the while spending that time frame secretly plotting his moment to pounce. THEN in late 1986 early 1987 finally decides to move up to middle for the first time ever and in his first showing at that Weight faces the division's best participant after he had stopped a solid ranked contender..... poor old Hagler and shame on that sneaky Leonard.... As for Meldrick I agree that the Chavez fight put a dent in his armor. But it was more mental than physical. He had Julio comvincingly outpointed for most of that fight. Less than a year later I watched him move up and beat undefeated champ Aaron Davis in mostly one sided fashion. So yeah Taylor's career was short lived and possibly due to Chavez, but he still had some fuel in the tank afterwards

Drugs for a lot of more recent fighters.

Billy Bello, Jimmy Young, etc.

Sid Barbarian was the no. one contender for Benny Leonard's title at one point, then was injured in a bad industrial accident.

Joe Frazier went way downhill once he lost Yank Durham and had Eddie Futch running his corner.
Same with Willie Monroe once Yank Durham was gone.

Emanuel Augustus - his clowning cost him fights in the judges eyes.

Tyson lost it when both Cus D'Amato and Jimmy Jacobs died... They kept him on track with personal counseling on women, night life, drugs, a champion’s demeanor and so on. Cus looked at D'Amato and Jacobs for guidance almost daily, but then fell under the influence of Don King and others. Patterson gave D'Amato credit for his becoming champion at such an early age -- and for forging his character and unbeatable will power. Jose Torres was another guy who credited D'Amato for his becoming champion. Cus recognized his ability and kept counseling him to believe in himself.

Tyson got a slew of endorsements at the very beginning of his career. They fell off immediately when his behavior declined. Everybody loved him at first. He started listening to people who urged him to relax, have fun, spend down his money, and invest in their projects.

Many Heavyweights needed direction in the 80’s. The lost decade where there was so much talent in the Heavyweight class and much of it went south.

Sidney Carton wrote:
Sid Barbarian was the no. one contender for Benny Leonard's title at one point, then was injured in a bad industrial accident.

Speaking of injuries, Eddie Booker and Wesley Mouzon could have been legends.

Kalan wrote:Tyson lost it when both Cus D'Amato and Jimmy Jacobs died... They kept him on track with personal counseling on women, night life, drugs, a champion’s demeanor and so on. Cus looked at D'Amato and Jacobs for guidance almost daily, but then fell under the influence of Don King and others. Patterson gave D'Amato credit for his becoming champion at such an early age -- and for forging his character and unbeatable will power.

Tyson got a slew of endorsements at the very beginning of his career. They fell off immediately when his behavior declined. Everybody loved him at first. He started listening to people who urged him to relax, have fun, spend down his money, and invest in their projects.

Many Heavyweights needed direction in the 80’s. The lost decade where there was so much talent in the Heavyweight class and much of it went south.

Cus let Mike do whatever he wanted. Mike loved him so that may have contained him in a way, but all Cus cared about was him training and kicking ass.

Yuriorkis Gamboa could've had at least 2 significant wins that either he or his management costs him.

He would've beaten Juanma Lopez, and that fight should've happened at 126 when it was relevant.

When he was offered the fight with Brandon Rios he should've taken it, he would've beaten Brandon Rios.

Wouldn't have been a huge boost to his career, but it would've given him a better resume than he's wound up with.

I'm not so sure that Gamboa beats Rios. Yuriorkis was ALWAYS undisciplined. Juan Ma was 50/50, they were both very vulnerable. But he could obviously have won both.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Kalan wrote:Tyson lost it when both Cus D'Amato and Jimmy Jacobs died... They kept him on track with personal counseling on women, night life, drugs, a champion’s demeanor and so on. Cus looked at D'Amato and Jacobs for guidance almost daily, but then fell under the influence of Don King and others. Patterson gave D'Amato credit for his becoming champion at such an early age -- and for forging his character and unbeatable will power.

Tyson got a slew of endorsements at the very beginning of his career. They fell off immediately when his behavior declined. Everybody loved him at first. He started listening to people who urged him to relax, have fun, spend down his money, and invest in their projects.

Many Heavyweights needed direction in the 80’s. The lost decade where there was so much talent in the Heavyweight class and much of it went south.

Cus let Mike do whatever he wanted. Mike loved him so that may have contained him in a way, but all Cus cared about was him training and kicking ass.

Cus cared about people. He let anybody do what they wanted. He just gave them a lot of guidance on where different directions would take them.

Kalan wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Kalan wrote:Tyson lost it when both Cus D'Amato and Jimmy Jacobs died... They kept him on track with personal counseling on women, night life, drugs, a champion’s demeanor and so on. Cus looked at D'Amato and Jacobs for guidance almost daily, but then fell under the influence of Don King and others. Patterson gave D'Amato credit for his becoming champion at such an early age -- and for forging his character and unbeatable will power.

Tyson got a slew of endorsements at the very beginning of his career. They fell off immediately when his behavior declined. Everybody loved him at first. He started listening to people who urged him to relax, have fun, spend down his money, and invest in their projects.

Many Heavyweights needed direction in the 80’s. The lost decade where there was so much talent in the Heavyweight class and much of it went south.

Cus let Mike do whatever he wanted. Mike loved him so that may have contained him in a way, but all Cus cared about was him training and kicking ass.

Cus cared about people. He let anybody do what they wanted. He just gave them a lot of guidance on where different directions would take them.

Too bad he's not around to counsel you on wasting your golden years staying up all night to lie and fight with strangers on the internet.

Kalan wrote:Tyson lost it when both Cus D'Amato and Jimmy Jacobs died... They kept him on track with personal counseling on women, night life, drugs, a champion’s demeanor and so on. Cus looked at D'Amato and Jacobs for guidance almost daily, but then fell under the influence of Don King and others. Patterson gave D'Amato credit for his becoming champion at such an early age -- and for forging his character and unbeatable will power. Jose Torres was another guy who credited D'Amato for his becoming champion. Cus recognized his ability and kept counseling him to believe in himself.

Tyson got a slew of endorsements at the very beginning of his career. They fell off immediately when his behavior declined. Everybody loved him at first. He started listening to people who urged him to relax, have fun, spend down his money, and invest in their projects.

Many Heavyweights needed direction in the 80’s. The lost decade where there was so much talent in the Heavyweight class and much of it went south.

I'm likin' this assessment...but it seems to conflict with another analysis you've done where his size was his Achilles heel. Are you saying that with further engaged accompaniment by those who trained and inspired him, he might have gone on to be more successful? despite the physical shortcomings/ weaknesses you have ascribed as being at the heart of his devolution?

No doubt!!! Tyson was extremely lucky to run into D'Amato when he did... Talent meets mover of talent... Jimmy Jacobs was a lucky addition. They died

All his luck wasn't supreme -- and the guys who made him took and early exit... However, once you push the bird from the nest, he's on his own.