BoxRec

Badhusker wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 09:02

Ossyrules wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 08:38

Badhusker wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 08:28

I think he should fight Whyte and take the money. It should be a much higher than normal payday for him if he travels there to fight him. All I was pointing out is that it was Hearn that made the offer of him getting Joshua if he beat Whyte. Finkle just called him on it an told him to put his money where his mouth was and put it in writing. They know Hearn isn't a man of his word.

And the response is, how do you expect what’s written down in a whyte contract concerning Joshua to mean anything!? Do you think they will negotiate 2 deals in advance for these guys! I understand you’ve admitted bias before for wilder but please quit the clueless shite

I'll type slower this time so maybe you will get it.
1) Hearn made an offer for Wilder to come to the UK and fight Whyte, and said if he wins, the AJ fight will be next.
2) Finkle called him back and said we can make that easily....but we want more than your word this time, since Hearn had promised Wilder the Joshua fight after Wlad. Now Hearn is silent.

Both fighters should move on, because Hearn doesn't want it to happen right now. I'm done discussing it until it is in serious negotiations.

And I said, in my slowest typing possible for you, how do you think it can possibly be negotiated two fights st once.

I’m glad you’re done with it as your shite was going viral.

We haven't learned anything new about Wilder's power last week. He stopped a fat, unmotivated punching bag which didn't want to be there.

Evander wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 10:37 I bet Hearn doesn't want the Wilder fight anytime soon after seeing Wilder's power, he knows exactly what may happen and likely wants to protect his cash cow.

Hearn offered Wilder over twice as much as he ever received during any fight and Wilder still ducked him, asking 14 times as much as Wilder himself offers his opponents. Wilder is just a complete nutjob, can't make much else of it, appearantly a bum like Molina or Arreola has smashed his brains so hard that he got delusional.

asdfjkl wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 21:13

Evander wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 10:37 I bet Hearn doesn't want the Wilder fight anytime soon after seeing Wilder's power, he knows exactly what may happen and likely wants to protect his cash cow.

Hearn offered Wilder over twice as much as he ever received during any fight and Wilder still ducked him, asking 14 times as much as Wilder himself offers his opponents. Wilder is just a complete nutjob, can't make much else of it, appearantly a bum like Molina or Arreola has smashed his brains so hard that he got delusional.

Come on now that's not true, Wilder and most of us know how lucrative this fight can be down the round and even if Eddie did offer him twice as much as he's ever made before doesn't make sense.
Go ask Eddie behind the scenes and he'll tell you exactly what I'm telling you if he took his promoters cap off.
I like Eddie he's a phenomenal promoter I have the utmost respect for, but moneys money and I promise you without any doubt in my mind an offer of twice what Wilder has earned previously is not just a lowball offer it's an insult.

Unless one or both of them lose in some kind of dramatic fashion this fight will happen.
I just think people need to be patient and let's all help build it up into an extravaganza, I don't think we'll see it in 2018 but you never know.
The bigger issue for me is who do they fight in the mean time and make them credible bouts while building this thing up.
If we can do that and all things run well this fight will be absolutely enormous when it kicks off.

Evander wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 23:36

asdfjkl wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 21:13

Evander wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 10:37 I bet Hearn doesn't want the Wilder fight anytime soon after seeing Wilder's power, he knows exactly what may happen and likely wants to protect his cash cow.

Hearn offered Wilder over twice as much as he ever received during any fight and Wilder still ducked him, asking 14 times as much as Wilder himself offers his opponents. Wilder is just a complete nutjob, can't make much else of it, appearantly a bum like Molina or Arreola has smashed his brains so hard that he got delusional.

Come on now that's not true, Wilder and most of us know how lucrative this fight can be down the round and even if Eddie did offer him twice as much as he's ever made before doesn't make sense.
Go ask Eddie behind the scenes and he'll tell you exactly what I'm telling you if he took his promoters cap off.
I like Eddie he's a phenomenal promoter I have the utmost respect for, but moneys money and I promise you without any doubt in my mind an offer of twice what Wilder has earned previously is not just a lowball offer it's an insult.

Wilder was offered more than twice his highest ever pay day to just face Dillian Whyte. That’s not an insult that’s good money, better money than hell he anywhere bar Joshua

Ossyrules wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 03:38

Evander wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 23:36

asdfjkl wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 21:13

Hearn offered Wilder over twice as much as he ever received during any fight and Wilder still ducked him, asking 14 times as much as Wilder himself offers his opponents. Wilder is just a complete nutjob, can't make much else of it, appearantly a bum like Molina or Arreola has smashed his brains so hard that he got delusional.

Come on now that's not true, Wilder and most of us know how lucrative this fight can be down the round and even if Eddie did offer him twice as much as he's ever made before doesn't make sense.
Go ask Eddie behind the scenes and he'll tell you exactly what I'm telling you if he took his promoters cap off.
I like Eddie he's a phenomenal promoter I have the utmost respect for, but moneys money and I promise you without any doubt in my mind an offer of twice what Wilder has earned previously is not just a lowball offer it's an insult.

Wilder was offered more than twice his highest ever pay day to just face Dillian Whyte. That’s not an insult that’s good money, better money than hell he anywhere bar Joshua

No offense Oss but unless you can tell me what Wilder has been offered for alternative fights it's a mute point.
I see what you're driving at but without all the details it's a hard sell.

Evander wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 23:36

asdfjkl wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 21:13

Evander wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 10:37 I bet Hearn doesn't want the Wilder fight anytime soon after seeing Wilder's power, he knows exactly what may happen and likely wants to protect his cash cow.

Hearn offered Wilder over twice as much as he ever received during any fight and Wilder still ducked him, asking 14 times as much as Wilder himself offers his opponents. Wilder is just a complete nutjob, can't make much else of it, appearantly a bum like Molina or Arreola has smashed his brains so hard that he got delusional.

Come on now that's not true, Wilder and most of us know how lucrative this fight can be down the round and even if Eddie did offer him twice as much as he's ever made before doesn't make sense.
Go ask Eddie behind the scenes and he'll tell you exactly what I'm telling you if he took his promoters cap off.
I like Eddie he's a phenomenal promoter I have the utmost respect for, but moneys money and I promise you without any doubt in my mind an offer of twice what Wilder has earned previously is not just a lowball offer it's an insult.

I'm a little confused as to which fight is being discussed here. The fight Hearn has offered Wilder twice what he's ever earned before (discounting what he was awarded for not fighting Povetkin) was $3m + US TV rights and that was for making a voluntary defence against Whyte. That's not a low-ball offer that is damn good offer for fighting someone Deontay Wilder doesn't even consider worthy of respect.

As far as I know, nobody is suggesting Wilder would be offered that for fighting Joshua, that would indeed be a low-ball offer and Wilder would be right to call it an insult.

Let's not get our wires crossed here.

candyslim wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 03:52

Evander wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 23:36

asdfjkl wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 21:13

Hearn offered Wilder over twice as much as he ever received during any fight and Wilder still ducked him, asking 14 times as much as Wilder himself offers his opponents. Wilder is just a complete nutjob, can't make much else of it, appearantly a bum like Molina or Arreola has smashed his brains so hard that he got delusional.

Come on now that's not true, Wilder and most of us know how lucrative this fight can be down the round and even if Eddie did offer him twice as much as he's ever made before doesn't make sense.
Go ask Eddie behind the scenes and he'll tell you exactly what I'm telling you if he took his promoters cap off.
I like Eddie he's a phenomenal promoter I have the utmost respect for, but moneys money and I promise you without any doubt in my mind an offer of twice what Wilder has earned previously is not just a lowball offer it's an insult.

I'm a little confused as to which fight is being discussed here. The fight Hearn has offered Wilder twice what he's ever earned before (discounting what he was awarded for not fighting Povetkin) was $3m + US TV rights and that was for making a voluntary defence against Whyte. That's not a low-ball offer that is damn good offer for fighting someone Deontay Wilder doesn't even consider worthy of respect.

As far as I know, nobody is suggesting Wilder would be offered that for fighting Joshua, that would indeed be a low-ball offer and Wilder would be right to call it an insult.

Let's not get our wires crossed here.

Ok let's be clear.
You have every right to go and offer that to whomever you wish and good luck to you.
But if I see that as a low ball offer on so many levels as a fan I can almost assure you Wilders camp would laugh at it.
It's easy to destroy the line of argument and takes very little effort trust me on this one.
What else you got ?

Evander wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 04:20

candyslim wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 03:52

Evander wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 23:36

Come on now that's not true, Wilder and most of us know how lucrative this fight can be down the round and even if Eddie did offer him twice as much as he's ever made before doesn't make sense.
Go ask Eddie behind the scenes and he'll tell you exactly what I'm telling you if he took his promoters cap off.
I like Eddie he's a phenomenal promoter I have the utmost respect for, but moneys money and I promise you without any doubt in my mind an offer of twice what Wilder has earned previously is not just a lowball offer it's an insult.

I'm a little confused as to which fight is being discussed here. The fight Hearn has offered Wilder twice what he's ever earned before (discounting what he was awarded for not fighting Povetkin) was $3m + US TV rights and that was for making a voluntary defence against Whyte. That's not a low-ball offer that is damn good offer for fighting someone Deontay Wilder doesn't even consider worthy of respect.

As far as I know, nobody is suggesting Wilder would be offered that for fighting Joshua, that would indeed be a low-ball offer and Wilder would be right to call it an insult.

Let's not get our wires crossed here.

Ok let's be clear.
You have every right to go and offer that to whomever you wish and good luck to you.
But if I see that as a low ball offer on so many levels as a fan I can almost assure you Wilders camp would laugh at it.
It's easy to destroy the line of argument and takes very little effort trust me on this one.
What else you got ?

Evander, say you work at McDonald’s for 5 dollars an hour

I offer you a job at Burger King.

I offer you 15 bucks an hour.

Is that a bad offer or deal?

It’s well discussed on here the 4 million offer to fight Whyte is 2-3 times bigger than Wilders usual takings

How is it low ball

We should also note wilder obviously hasn’t written off Whyte as an opponent, as his reply was 7 million

I do find it amusing that Shelley Finkel is making such comments when three years ago he was brushing away suggestions that Deontay should unify with Klitschko: "No he's a young man, just a baby within the division and he's in no rush. He'll take his time and the big fights will come when he's ready". That isn't word for word but that was the gist of it.

These are my observations, not necessarily factual just my impressions:

1. Joshua is not frightened of Wilder or anybody else. He will fight who his management team decide he will fight, and when. His record bears testament to the fact he does not duck a challenge.

2. Wilder is easily the most dangerous opponent out there. If, let's say Joshua, his management team, Eddie Hearn, decided that Wilder in 2018 was too big a risk and Joshua could fight a succession of easier opponents and make shedloads of money while Deontay Wilder grows too old to compete at the highest level, would Finkel have any right to complain? Is that not exactly what Wilder has done? Yes there was Povetkin and Ortiz but whether by accident or design, those fights didn't happen. By rights nobody should point any fingers at Joshua until he's been fighting nine years or held the IBF title for three years or they could be accused of hypocracy.

3. Wilder does not 'want' to fight Joshua. Deontay wants the Joshua fight. There is a distinction. What he wants is the money. If Joshua were just as good, held the same titles, and lived in Lagos or Abouja with no UK fanbase and no Sky TV backing, do you seriously imagine Wilder would still want to fight him?

4. Why is Wilder pushing this so hard now? I think he believes he can win but time is not on his side. Joshua is improving. Wilder is not fighting opponents that will improve him. Wilder's power gives him a realistic chance of beating any human who ever lived, but I do think Joshua is at least 60/40 to beat him (as a Brit I may be biased). While Wilder believes he can win, the main objective is the payday. His hands aren't going to allow him to continue very much longer. If he loses to Joshua he will at least be financially set-up for life.

5. I do think that Wilder has - knowingly or not, approvingly or not - been protected by Haymon, Finkel, Dibella (maybe even Sulaiman but let's not go there). I think the prime directive is that nothing must be allowed to prevent the Joshua fight from taking place and that means not fighting anyone between now and then that could potentially jeopardize it. That includes Dillian Whyte who they see as a greater threat than many people realize, despite his less than inspiring showing against Helenius. The problem is having finally removed Stiverne, there is nothing to stop Wilder from making a voluntary defence against whomever he wants, only the public aren't going to be happy if the selected opponent is Fujimoto or Dimitrenko or someone else from the lower reaches of the WBC top 15. Miller, Breazeale, Ruiz. would be acceptable opponents, and Wilder would be favoured to beat them, but they are all a hell of a lot more risky than the likes of Bermane Stiverne (2017 version).

If he can't get Joshua next what are his options? Haymon-Finkel-Dibella may prefer him to sit it out until the summer blockbuster - maybe Deontay suffers some problem with his hands, although he might not be willing to go along with that, his pride may not allow it.

So for now they will taunt AJ and Hearn and try to get US fans to join them in the hope it will goad them into fighting Wilder next. The trouble is if they want the really big bucks they have to wait until summer when stadiums like Wembley (presently hosting premier league football on alternate weekends) becomes available, and the weather is more condusive to an out-door arena.

Evander wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 04:20

candyslim wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 03:52

Evander wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 23:36

Come on now that's not true, Wilder and most of us know how lucrative this fight can be down the round and even if Eddie did offer him twice as much as he's ever made before doesn't make sense.
Go ask Eddie behind the scenes and he'll tell you exactly what I'm telling you if he took his promoters cap off.
I like Eddie he's a phenomenal promoter I have the utmost respect for, but moneys money and I promise you without any doubt in my mind an offer of twice what Wilder has earned previously is not just a lowball offer it's an insult.

I'm a little confused as to which fight is being discussed here. The fight Hearn has offered Wilder twice what he's ever earned before (discounting what he was awarded for not fighting Povetkin) was $3m + US TV rights and that was for making a voluntary defence against Whyte. That's not a low-ball offer that is damn good offer for fighting someone Deontay Wilder doesn't even consider worthy of respect.

As far as I know, nobody is suggesting Wilder would be offered that for fighting Joshua, that would indeed be a low-ball offer and Wilder would be right to call it an insult.

Let's not get our wires crossed here.

Ok let's be clear.
You have every right to go and offer that to whomever you wish and good luck to you.
But if I see that as a low ball offer on so many levels as a fan I can almost assure you Wilders camp would laugh at it.
It's easy to destroy the line of argument and takes very little effort trust me on this one.
What else you got ?

I think the problem is that Hearn is the only show in town so your question ought to be "What else Deontay got?"

Ossyrules wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 04:45

Evander wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 04:20

candyslim wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 03:52

I'm a little confused as to which fight is being discussed here. The fight Hearn has offered Wilder twice what he's ever earned before (discounting what he was awarded for not fighting Povetkin) was $3m + US TV rights and that was for making a voluntary defence against Whyte. That's not a low-ball offer that is damn good offer for fighting someone Deontay Wilder doesn't even consider worthy of respect.

As far as I know, nobody is suggesting Wilder would be offered that for fighting Joshua, that would indeed be a low-ball offer and Wilder would be right to call it an insult.

Let's not get our wires crossed here.

Ok let's be clear.
You have every right to go and offer that to whomever you wish and good luck to you.
But if I see that as a low ball offer on so many levels as a fan I can almost assure you Wilders camp would laugh at it.
It's easy to destroy the line of argument and takes very little effort trust me on this one.
What else you got ?

Evander, say you work at McDonald’s for 5 dollars an hour

I offer you a job at Burger King.

I offer you 15 bucks an hour.

Is that a bad offer or deal?

It’s well discussed on here the 4 million offer to fight Whyte is 2-3 times bigger than Wilders usual takings

How is it low ball

We should also note wilder obviously hasn’t written off Whyte as an opponent, as his reply was 7 million

How many hours am I working? What is the proximity and transportation? What benefits am I currently getting? Not a cut and dry better job even with the pay increase. Wilder doesn't want to sign with Eddie, that's the only way he gets big money for Whyte. You're too one sided on this one.

They offered 3 million total purse for the Whyte fight. With a 50/50 split that's 1.5 million per man. Wilder made 1.4 milion to fight Stiverne and attempted to pay 800 thousand not to fight Stiverne.

Hearn and Finkle are meeting this week. There could be a break thru on either the Whyte fight or Joshua fight.

A few days ago Hearn, Finkle and Wilder were all guests on thaboxingvoice podcast. It's on youtube. They discussed a variety of scenarios. It's a very interesting listen.

I'm sure you're wrong there Marv. If $3m included Whyte's cut that would not be a particularly good offer. Hearn definitely said he offered Wilder $3m + US TV rights. How else could he claim it was a great offer?

@Saad: If Hearn is trying to get Wilder to sign with him and that's the reason Wilder won't play ball then why aren't team Wilder screaming foul at anyone who'll listen, rather than keeping schtum and looking like a pussy?

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 06:35

Ossyrules wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 04:45

Evander wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 04:20

Ok let's be clear.
You have every right to go and offer that to whomever you wish and good luck to you.
But if I see that as a low ball offer on so many levels as a fan I can almost assure you Wilders camp would laugh at it.
It's easy to destroy the line of argument and takes very little effort trust me on this one.
What else you got ?

Evander, say you work at McDonald’s for 5 dollars an hour

I offer you a job at Burger King.

I offer you 15 bucks an hour.

Is that a bad offer or deal?

It’s well discussed on here the 4 million offer to fight Whyte is 2-3 times bigger than Wilders usual takings

How is it low ball

We should also note wilder obviously hasn’t written off Whyte as an opponent, as his reply was 7 million

How many hours am I working? What is the proximity and transportation? What benefits am I currently getting? Not a cut and dry better job even with the pay increase. Wilder doesn't want to sign with Eddie, that's the only way he gets big money for Whyte. You're too one sided on this one.

I try not to be one sided, but I guess when there’s so much wilder shite coming from badhusker it might seem like that.

I may be guilty of looking at it too simply.

All I see is

- bigger money x 2 and more than he’s ever taken
- an opponent whose number 1 with his governing body
- top ten opponent overall
- exposure to a country that is generating big money in boxing

Wilder wants it in writing that he can get Joshua next, Hearn has tried for options on wilder. Neither of those points will happen but they shouldn’t be a sticking point.

Joshua and wilder will get each other, the division is too thin for them to have any credibility to not fight each other

Wilder should be licking his lips at the opportunities Hearn is giving him. 2 pay days to dwarf anything he’s ever had, a chance to unify with only Parker to stop him being undisputed.

If it was so cut and dry I'm sure deontay would be all over it. I would think hearn is a good place to be at the moment, but he's loyal. If hearn is so gung ho on this bout, some day he may get a chance for a purse bid, Wilder might make more than he's being offered with no options for Eddie.

I think the fight happens next year in England and I think wilder gets paid very well. I’m not too concerned about this one being dwelt on for a long time

Evander wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 10:37 I bet Hearn doesn't want the Wilder fight anytime soon after seeing Wilder's power, he knows exactly what may happen and likely wants to protect his cash cow.

The ducker has now become the duckee.

Evander wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 10:37 I bet Hearn doesn't want the Wilder fight anytime soon after seeing Wilder's power, he knows exactly what may happen and likely wants to protect his cash cow.

The ducker has now become the duckee.

Evander wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 23:36

asdfjkl wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 21:13

Evander wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 10:37 I bet Hearn doesn't want the Wilder fight anytime soon after seeing Wilder's power, he knows exactly what may happen and likely wants to protect his cash cow.

Hearn offered Wilder over twice as much as he ever received during any fight and Wilder still ducked him, asking 14 times as much as Wilder himself offers his opponents. Wilder is just a complete nutjob, can't make much else of it, appearantly a bum like Molina or Arreola has smashed his brains so hard that he got delusional.

Come on now that's not true, Wilder and most of us know how lucrative this fight can be down the round and even if Eddie did offer him twice as much as he's ever made before doesn't make sense.
Go ask Eddie behind the scenes and he'll tell you exactly what I'm telling you if he took his promoters cap off.
I like Eddie he's a phenomenal promoter I have the utmost respect for, but moneys money and I promise you without any doubt in my mind an offer of twice what Wilder has earned previously is not just a lowball offer it's an insult.

Then why did Wilder chose to fight Stiverne? If you can fight Whyte for 5 mil and Stiverne for 1,5 mil, normal people take the Whyte fight, not the Stiverne fight, unless you're scared to lose. And that's oke and understandeble, but then at least admit that.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 13:34

Evander wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 10:37 I bet Hearn doesn't want the Wilder fight anytime soon after seeing Wilder's power, he knows exactly what may happen and likely wants to protect his cash cow.

The ducker has now become the duckee.

Not in any shape or form. Dont be easily taken in by a Instagram post or Facebook call out

Ossyrules wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 14:57

Tony1244 wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 13:34

Evander wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017, 10:37 I bet Hearn doesn't want the Wilder fight anytime soon after seeing Wilder's power, he knows exactly what may happen and likely wants to protect his cash cow.

The ducker has now become the duckee.

Not in any shape or form. Dont be easily taken in by a Instagram post or Facebook call out

I'm not on FB or Instagram. Don't really even know what the later is.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 15:13

Ossyrules wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 14:57

Tony1244 wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 13:34



The ducker has now become the duckee.

Not in any shape or form. Dont be easily taken in by a Instagram post or Facebook call out

I'm not on FB or Instagram. Don't really even know what the later is.

Basic point is wilder makes all the right noises on social media, various interviews etc how he will travel to beat the king etc. Sounds great

Offers made by Joshua’s team 1
Offers made by Wilders team 0

Wilders team haven’t tried to make the fight. Joshua’s has.

Hearn is currently in New York talking to Haymon and Finkel, right about now. He has said the fight will take place in 2018 provided they can agree terms. Both parties want the fight so the hurdles shouldn't be insurmountable. The question is when in 2018. Hearn has said the fight can be made for the spring but there will be more money available for summer or autumn. This all makes sense and if there is anything there which Hearn may not be telling the truth about it will be the part where he says team Wilder can have the spring option if they are prepared to accept less money. Hearn isn't one to sell his best show short.

As to those of you talking about Joshua ducking Wilder you should ducking well be ashamed of yourselves. Twenty fights into his career Joshua has inflicted the first defeat on four fighters in succession*, beaten a future hall of famer, and successfully defended his title four times.

His best wins have been against Klitschko, Takam, Whyte and Breazeale. Tell me one fighter on Wilder's 39 fight unbeaten record who would start favourite to beat any one of them.

* Of course being undefeated doesn't necessarily mean that you're good but it does mean no one truly knows just how good you might be, so taking on an unbeaten opponent is risky.