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Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 17:36
by In the know 85
To not ban him for it says it all, it was probably for a legitimate heart condition, wilder was lucky because Ortiz would have smashed him, the wba however have banned him to protect there stiff robotic cash cow AJ, makes no sense how both are using vada, and only one hands out a ban.. pathetic really
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 17:43
by Ruthless-RKO
Boxing Prospect wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 17:19
Nery is a good Mexican boy, the WBC can trust him. He's not someone who ran away from his country for his country, people and President
Many people left Cuba and have been leaving since the 70's.
How well do you know Nery?
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 19:37
by Boxing Prospect
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 17:43
Boxing Prospect wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 17:19
Nery is a good Mexican boy, the WBC can trust him. He's not someone who ran away from his country for his country, people and President
Many people left Cuba and have been leaving since the 70's.
How well do you know Nery?
v_v I was being a bit facetious and sarcastic.
The WBC's view seems to be that Mexican's don't cheat...even if a lot of heir fighters do seem to get caught with things, Nery even stated before the Yamanaka fight that he was going to put on about 16lbs, hard to believe one can do that legitimately at 118. Nery, Vargas, Morales, Chavez, Beltran, all in the last few years have left some questions to be answered about MExican boxing IMO
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 19:44
by boxing_rocks
I want to see Ortiz vs Povetkin for the mandatory position.
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 20:03
by jamamb
Boxing Prospect wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 19:37
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 17:43
Boxing Prospect wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 17:19
Nery is a good Mexican boy, the WBC can trust him. He's not someone who ran away from his country for his country, people and President
Many people left Cuba and have been leaving since the 70's.
How well do you know Nery?
v_v I was being a bit facetious and sarcastic.
The WBC's view seems to be that Mexican's don't cheat...even if a lot of heir fighters do seem to get caught with things, Nery even stated before the Yamanaka fight that he was going to put on about 16lbs, hard to believe one can do that legitimately at 118. Nery, Vargas, Morales, Chavez, Beltran, all in the last few years have left some questions to be answered about MExican boxing IMO
they just bring out the tainted beef excuse every time. no mexicans could possibly knowingly take drugs. theyre actually the victims in all this
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 16 Nov 2017, 06:08
by Enlightened-One
asdfjkl wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 13:47
Lol,
http://vada-testing.org/luis-ortiz/
Ortiz wasn't even ranked by the WBC, because they knew Wilder didn't want to face him anyway, only bums make it to the WBC list.
So no wonder the WBC didn't list him.
That link doesn't actually mean anything. It doesn't confirm your claim about Luis Ortiz being regularly tested by VADA.
And FYI - The content of that web page hasn't changed since at least the 5th March, 2016. It relates to his enrollment into VADA for the Bryant Jennings fight (the interim WBA title), which took place on the 19th December, 2015.
Wasn't the launch date of the WBC-VADA's clean boxing program from the 9th September, 2016?
In relation to the other random gibberish you’ve stated about the WBC’s rankings of Luis Ortiz, I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Unless you're referring to a time when the WBC didn't rate Luis Ortiz, due to him holding a WBA title, which is common practice?
Either way, Luis Ortiz hasn’t been regularly tested by VADA. So your claim is wrong... and I've already proved it.
When the Cuban failed a VADA test during his training camp for the Wilder fight, Ortiz didn’t disclose: the drugs that he was prescribed; his health justification for consuming banned substances; and nor did he request from the WBC/VADA an exemption to allow himself to continue taking those technically banned substances.
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 16 Nov 2017, 13:12
by asdfjkl
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Nov 2017, 06:08
asdfjkl wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 13:47
Lol,
http://vada-testing.org/luis-ortiz/
Ortiz wasn't even ranked by the WBC, because they knew Wilder didn't want to face him anyway, only bums make it to the WBC list.
So no wonder the WBC didn't list him.
That link doesn't actually mean anything. It doesn't confirm your claim about Luis Ortiz being regularly tested by VADA.
And FYI - The content of that web page hasn't changed since at least the 5th March, 2016. It relates to his enrollment into VADA for the Bryant Jennings fight (the interim WBA title), which took place on the 19th December, 2015.
Wasn't the launch date of the WBC-VADA's clean boxing program from the 9th September, 2016?
In relation to the other random gibberish you’ve stated about the WBC’s rankings of Luis Ortiz, I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Unless you're referring to a time when the WBC didn't rate Luis Ortiz, due to him holding a WBA title, which is common practice?
Either way, Luis Ortiz hasn’t been regularly tested by VADA. So your claim is wrong... and I've already proved it.
When the Cuban failed a VADA test during his training camp for the Wilder fight, Ortiz didn’t disclose: the drugs that he was prescribed; his health justification for consuming banned substances; and nor did he request from the WBC/VADA an exemption to allow himself to continue taking those technically banned substances.
You want to claim Ortiz has never been tested between 2014 and two months ago? Ortiz signed himself up even before the WBC worked together with vada, on request of Deontay Wilder himself btw, who asked that because he needed that to do their trick to avoid fighting Povetkin, which ofcourse he would have lost. Povetkin is the real WBC champ for people that care about boxing, it's very understandeble that Wilder doesn't dare to fight him, he probably still doesn't, despite Povetkin nowadays is way way way over the hill.
The WBC never had Ortiz in their top 15, and ofcourse especially not when the overprotected Deontay Wilder carried their belt, and ofcourse neither when Ortiz won the interim WBA indeed. It's really odd that the WBC didn't make Wilder a champion in recess, like they did with Grigory Drozd for example, but that was probably only because he's not an American or Mexican.
Also note that they confused Ortiz in purpose by writing a letter in two differend languages that ain't spoken by him, so it's not a wonder not all details have been filled in perfectly correct. Wilder, or pretty much any other American, wouldn't have been able to give all the correct answers in a similar Russian letter either. Somehow the Russians simply never try such things, they want to win the fight in a boxing ring and aren't used to such massive cowards and bumfighters.
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 16 Nov 2017, 14:20
by Enlightened-One
asdfjkl wrote: ↑16 Nov 2017, 13:12
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Nov 2017, 06:08
asdfjkl wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 13:47
Lol,
http://vada-testing.org/luis-ortiz/
Ortiz wasn't even ranked by the WBC, because they knew Wilder didn't want to face him anyway, only bums make it to the WBC list.
So no wonder the WBC didn't list him.
That link doesn't actually mean anything. It doesn't confirm your claim about Luis Ortiz being regularly tested by VADA.
And FYI - The content of that web page hasn't changed since at least the 5th March, 2016. It relates to his enrollment into VADA for the Bryant Jennings fight (the interim WBA title), which took place on the 19th December, 2015.
Wasn't the launch date of the WBC-VADA's clean boxing program from the 9th September, 2016?
In relation to the other random gibberish you’ve stated about the WBC’s rankings of Luis Ortiz, I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Unless you're referring to a time when the WBC didn't rate Luis Ortiz, due to him holding a WBA title, which is common practice?
Either way, Luis Ortiz hasn’t been regularly tested by VADA. So your claim is wrong... and I've already proved it.
When the Cuban failed a VADA test during his training camp for the Wilder fight, Ortiz didn’t disclose: the drugs that he was prescribed; his health justification for consuming banned substances; and nor did he request from the WBC/VADA an exemption to allow himself to continue taking those technically banned substances.
You want to claim Ortiz has never been tested between 2014 and two months ago? Ortiz signed himself up even before the WBC worked together with vada, on request of Deontay Wilder himself btw, who asked that because he needed that to do their trick to avoid fighting Povetkin, which ofcourse he would have lost. Povetkin is the real WBC champ for people that care about boxing, it's very understandeble that Wilder doesn't dare to fight him, he probably still doesn't, despite Povetkin nowadays is way way way over the hill.
The WBC never had Ortiz in their top 15, and ofcourse especially not when the overprotected Deontay Wilder carried their belt, and ofcourse neither when Ortiz won the interim WBA indeed. It's really odd that the WBC didn't make Wilder a champion in recess, like they did with Grigory Drozd for example, but that was probably only because he's not an American or Mexican.
Also note that they confused Ortiz in purpose by writing a letter in two differend languages that ain't spoken by him, so it's not a wonder not all details have been filled in perfectly correct. Wilder, or pretty much any other American, wouldn't have been able to give all the correct answers in a similar Russian letter either. Somehow the Russians simply never try such things, they want to win the fight in a boxing ring and aren't used to such massive cowards and bumfighters.
I've addressed all of these points already. It seems that you're going down the route of using raw repetition alone as a weak attempt to eventually displace the truth.
You clearly believe that repeating a lie often enough, other people will start thinking that it's true!
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 16 Nov 2017, 15:02
by asdfjkl
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Nov 2017, 14:20
asdfjkl wrote: ↑16 Nov 2017, 13:12
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Nov 2017, 06:08
That link doesn't actually mean anything. It doesn't confirm your claim about Luis Ortiz being regularly tested by VADA.
And FYI - The content of that web page hasn't changed since at least the 5th March, 2016. It relates to his enrollment into VADA for the Bryant Jennings fight (the interim WBA title), which took place on the 19th December, 2015.
Wasn't the launch date of the WBC-VADA's clean boxing program from the 9th September, 2016?
In relation to the other random gibberish you’ve stated about the WBC’s rankings of Luis Ortiz, I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Unless you're referring to a time when the WBC didn't rate Luis Ortiz, due to him holding a WBA title, which is common practice?
Either way, Luis Ortiz hasn’t been regularly tested by VADA. So your claim is wrong... and I've already proved it.
When the Cuban failed a VADA test during his training camp for the Wilder fight, Ortiz didn’t disclose: the drugs that he was prescribed; his health justification for consuming banned substances; and nor did he request from the WBC/VADA an exemption to allow himself to continue taking those technically banned substances.
You want to claim Ortiz has never been tested between 2014 and two months ago? Ortiz signed himself up even before the WBC worked together with vada, on request of Deontay Wilder himself btw, who asked that because he needed that to do their trick to avoid fighting Povetkin, which ofcourse he would have lost. Povetkin is the real WBC champ for people that care about boxing, it's very understandeble that Wilder doesn't dare to fight him, he probably still doesn't, despite Povetkin nowadays is way way way over the hill.
The WBC never had Ortiz in their top 15, and ofcourse especially not when the overprotected Deontay Wilder carried their belt, and ofcourse neither when Ortiz won the interim WBA indeed. It's really odd that the WBC didn't make Wilder a champion in recess, like they did with Grigory Drozd for example, but that was probably only because he's not an American or Mexican.
Also note that they confused Ortiz in purpose by writing a letter in two differend languages that ain't spoken by him, so it's not a wonder not all details have been filled in perfectly correct. Wilder, or pretty much any other American, wouldn't have been able to give all the correct answers in a similar Russian letter either. Somehow the Russians simply never try such things, they want to win the fight in a boxing ring and aren't used to such massive cowards and bumfighters.
I've addressed all of these points already. It seems that you're going down the route of using raw repetition alone as a weak attempt to eventually displace the truth.
You clearly believe that repeating a lie often enough, other people will start thinking that it's true!
It's exactly the opposite, it's pretty much a small circle (Wilder and his team, the WBC and their connections with Wada/Vada), all the media that lies, or simply don't know any better and idiots that copy paste it, no matter how much and often they are proven wrong and no matter how much evidence is out there to proof them wrong and no matter how less facts they can show that prove them right. This despite it's predicted months and months beforehand by people that know what they are talking about. And those media still brainwashed many of the dumb people.
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 16 Nov 2017, 18:38
by Kalan
chinarich wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 05:25
Leaving aside questions of his guilt (or otherwise) it's a ridiculous situation that he is being treated differently by two sanctioning bodies. What if he were to fight and beat Wilder next and then enter into negotiations for a unification with Joshua? Depending on the timeline the WBA title would not be on the line.
In boxing we are never going to have a single authority but I think there has to be unanimity on how VADA / WADA failed tests are handled otherwise it is farcical. Boxers who fail a drug test need to be banned from all boxing activity not just by one organisation...
These are PRIVATE organizations that were set up to leech money off Boxing... They don't answer to ANYBODY...
The WBC doesn't have to do anything anybody else does or coordinate any actions with anybody... Why do you suppose the WBC allowed Bermane Stiverne slide 100% for positive PED tests??? ... Why did you think they've imposed mandatory "voluntary testing" in cahoots with VADA??? ... Why do you suppose VADA also solicited the WBA to make their tests obligatory??? ... Why do you thing the "Clean Boxing Program" was invented??? ... Why do you think the WBC kept Bermane Stiverne as their number one contender when he hadn't had a fight in years and performed poorly against Rossy??? ... Do you think they have ethics on their minds -- or money on their minds???
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 17 Nov 2017, 04:33
by chinarich
Kalan wrote: ↑16 Nov 2017, 18:38
chinarich wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 05:25
Leaving aside questions of his guilt (or otherwise) it's a ridiculous situation that he is being treated differently by two sanctioning bodies. What if he were to fight and beat Wilder next and then enter into negotiations for a unification with Joshua? Depending on the timeline the WBA title would not be on the line.
In boxing we are never going to have a single authority but I think there has to be unanimity on how VADA / WADA failed tests are handled otherwise it is farcical. Boxers who fail a drug test need to be banned from all boxing activity not just by one organisation...
These are PRIVATE organizations that were set up to leech money off Boxing... They don't answer to ANYBODY...
The WBC doesn't have to do anything anybody else does or coordinate any actions with anybody... Why do you suppose the WBC allowed Bermane Stiverne slide 100% for positive PED tests??? ... Why did you think they've imposed mandatory "voluntary testing" in cahoots with VADA??? ... Why do you suppose VADA also solicited the WBA to make their tests obligatory??? ... Why do you thing the "Clean Boxing Program" was invented??? ... Why do you think the WBC kept Bermane Stiverne as their number one contender when he hadn't had a fight in years and performed poorly against Rossy??? ... Do you think they have ethics on their minds -- or money on their minds???
Thanks for all the CAPITALS or I wouldn't have UNDERSTOOD...
All I said was it would be desirable, I am not under any illusion that it will ever happen. As you say, they are all PRIVATE organisations...
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 17 Nov 2017, 15:23
by kych
Deontay should fight Ortiz in March, since AJ is meeting Paker. There will be no excuse!!
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 18 Nov 2017, 10:38
by candyslim
Hell no. I was willing to fight him. I even warned him about not fukcing up the drug test. I promised step-aside money to Stiverne so I could fight Ortiz and even when he failed the damn test I still wanted to fight him, in fact I pleaded with the WBC to let me go ahead with the fight, but they wouldn't allow it so I had to fight Stiverne after all despite doing everything I could to fight a better opponent.
No Ortiz had his chance just like Povetkin and he cheated. He aint getting the chance to mess me around again. Every time I try to step up these guys are so scared of me they take PEDs to give themselves a chance, then they screw up. No, I've done my best, and I've taken care of my mandatory so I get to choose next up ... this guy Dimitrenko looks like might fit the bill or how about Christian Hammer, no he's already fixed up. Maybe Fujimoto?
Keepin it real. DW.