BoxRec

Elmer, what made you think this thread would turn out any differently from the exact same thread you made a few weeks back?

He's pure gold!
Lewis fights were neutral sites! After all, they weren't in the other guy's hometown. Yet, he counts Lockridge for Pedroza. He counts Spider Nemoto for Pedroza who was not from Toyko where the fight was. He counts MCguigan for Pedroza when the fight was not even MGuigan's country.

Loved the line about British fans coming over as another reason that Lewis was fighting on neutral territory. Unbelievable.

Here is another one. According to the Boxrec Database, Tommy Burns has 11.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: ↑04 Dec 2017, 17:32 Rocky lockridge was not from new jersey.

His career was based in McAfee, NJ. That's where he made his career with trainer Lou Duva. In the Eusebio Pedroza fight, the crowd was strictly Rocky Lockridge's.

ewenhay wrote: ↑04 Dec 2017, 17:59 Elmer, what made you think this thread would turn out any differently from the exact same thread you made a few weeks back?

This is a thread about most title defenses in enemy's or opponent's backyards. Still, the great Eusebio Pedroza got the all time world boxing record. Remarkable!

elmersalsa wrote: ↑05 Dec 2017, 14:33

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: ↑04 Dec 2017, 17:32 Rocky lockridge was not from new jersey.

His career was based in McAfee, NJ. That's where he made his career with trainer Lou Duva. In the Eusebio Pedroza fight, the crowd was strictly Rocky Lockridge's.

Lockridge is from Washington. Can't you read your own posts? Are you on a mission to be the biggest hypocrite in history? Or are you just so stubborn and stupid that you don't care how ridiculous you come off on here? Seriously, you're a legendary buffoon.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: ↑05 Dec 2017, 15:43

elmersalsa wrote: ↑05 Dec 2017, 14:33

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: ↑04 Dec 2017, 17:32 Rocky lockridge was not from new jersey.

His career was based in McAfee, NJ. That's where he made his career with trainer Lou Duva. In the Eusebio Pedroza fight, the crowd was strictly Rocky Lockridge's.

Lockridge is from Washington. Can't you read your own posts? Are you on a mission to be the biggest hypocrite in history? Or are you just so stubborn and stupid that you don't care how ridiculous you come off on here? Seriously, you're a legendary buffoon.

Are you trying to act stupid or you just want to ignore the facts? The crowd in McAfee, NJ was all rooting for Rocky Lockridge. They certainly weren't rooting for the great Eusebio Pedroza. So, McAfee was Rocky's backyard. End of story.

The problems is that use different "facts" to justify rating guys that you like ahead of those you don't care about or don't like. At one time it was what country the fight took place in. Then you said it had to be in one weight class so that Chavez could not be ahead of Pedroza. Then it became about who the crowd was rooting for. Lennox Lewis was fighting on neutral sites when he fought all those Americans in the United States? Could you be any more ridiculous? And you seem to be ignoring Tommy Burns.
And now you used "end of story line" as if you make some great point that can't be refuted.
Do you really wonder why people might consider you a buffoon?

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑08 Dec 2017, 12:04 The problems is that use different "facts" to justify rating guys that you like ahead of those you don't care about or don't like. At one time it was what country the fight took place in. Then you said it had to be in one weight class so that Chavez could not be ahead of Pedroza. Then it became about who the crowd was rooting for. Lennox Lewis was fighting on neutral sites when he fought all those Americans in the United States? Could you be any more ridiculous? And you seem to be ignoring Tommy Burns.
And now you used "end of story line" as if you make some great point that can't be refuted.
Do you really wonder why people might consider you a buffoon?

First, I am not a Buffon. You and I and the saadofthedeck know what I am talking about. It's clear as water. The problem is that you don't want to recognize the great Eusebio Pedroza's achievement and ring savvy skills, especially fighting and defending your title on the road.

Ask the great Archie Moore in his fight with Yvonne Durelle in Durelle's town of Montreal, Canada and how hard it was to defend in that hostile environment. He went to the floor about 4 or 5 times in that fight. The crowd was strictly for Durelle. Moore came out victorious winning by knockout. You understand that, right?

You understand when the great Sugar Ray Robinson defended the crown against Randy Turpin in London, England, right? Everybody was rooting for Turpin. And in the rematch, in Sugar Ray's backyard of New York, it was Turpin's turn to defend. Both lost their crowns, right?

Well, it's not hard to comprehend what did Pedroza did. A remarkable world record for any champion that wore the boxing gloves. He had 10 and he did it, in hostile environments, where the crowd rooted for the local guy. Not for Pedroza.

Is that hard to comprehend, or you just want to ignore the facts?

Tommy Burns had 8 title defenses. Not 11.

Name me a true world champion that defended his crown in opponents' backyards more than the great Eusebio Pedroza? I looked it up. Pedroza got 10.

The closest is 8 by Brian Mitchell, who was a true world champion also.

littlepug wrote: ↑04 Dec 2017, 11:41

elmersalsa wrote: ↑25 Nov 2017, 19:44 Here's the list of most World Title Defenses made in Opponent's Backyards. It takes lot of skill and savvy on the road to retain your crown. These men are the champions that did it the best:

Eusebio Pedroza (Panama) -10 times. WBA World Featherweight Title.

Brian Mitchell (South Africa) - 8 times. WBA World Jr Lightweight Title.

Hilario Zapata (Panama)- 8 times. WBC World Jr Flyweight Title in two reigns.

Muhammad Ali (USA) - 5 times. World Heavyweight Title in two reigns.

Carlos Monzon (Argentina) -4 times. World Middleweight Title.

I'm assuming Mitchells other defences abroad were against guys that were also from elsewhere ?

Nope. They weren't. They were from the same town or country he was fighting.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑08 Dec 2017, 16:15

littlepug wrote: ↑04 Dec 2017, 11:41

elmersalsa wrote: ↑25 Nov 2017, 19:44 Here's the list of most World Title Defenses made in Opponent's Backyards. It takes lot of skill and savvy on the road to retain your crown. These men are the champions that did it the best:

Eusebio Pedroza (Panama) -10 times. WBA World Featherweight Title.

Brian Mitchell (South Africa) - 8 times. WBA World Jr Lightweight Title.

Hilario Zapata (Panama)- 8 times. WBC World Jr Flyweight Title in two reigns.

Muhammad Ali (USA) - 5 times. World Heavyweight Title in two reigns.

Carlos Monzon (Argentina) -4 times. World Middleweight Title.

I'm assuming Mitchells other defences abroad were against guys that were also from elsewhere ?

Nope. They weren't. They were from the same town or country he was fighting.

Well I just counted 12 defences abroad for Mitchell

littlepug wrote: ↑08 Dec 2017, 16:49

elmersalsa wrote: ↑08 Dec 2017, 16:15

littlepug wrote: ↑04 Dec 2017, 11:41
I'm assuming Mitchells other defences abroad were against guys that were also from elsewhere ?

Nope. They weren't. They were from the same town or country he was fighting.

Well I just counted 12 defences abroad for Mitchell

List them. They come short of Pedroza's.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑08 Dec 2017, 16:06

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑08 Dec 2017, 12:04 The problems is that use different "facts" to justify rating guys that you like ahead of those you don't care about or don't like. At one time it was what country the fight took place in. Then you said it had to be in one weight class so that Chavez could not be ahead of Pedroza. Then it became about who the crowd was rooting for. Lennox Lewis was fighting on neutral sites when he fought all those Americans in the United States? Could you be any more ridiculous? And you seem to be ignoring Tommy Burns.
And now you used "end of story line" as if you make some great point that can't be refuted.
Do you really wonder why people might consider you a buffoon?

First, I am not a Buffon. You and I and the saadofthedeck know what I am talking about. It's clear as water. The problem is that you don't want to recognize the great Eusebio Pedroza's achievement and ring savvy skills, especially fighting and defending your title on the road.

Ask the great Archie Moore in his fight with Yvonne Durelle in Durelle's town of Montreal, Canada and how hard it was to defend in that hostile environment. He went to the floor about 4 or 5 times in that fight. The crowd was strictly for Durelle. Moore came out victorious winning by knockout. You understand that, right?

You understand when the great Sugar Ray Robinson defended the crown against Randy Turpin in London, England, right? Everybody was rooting for Turpin. And in the rematch, in Sugar Ray's backyard of New York, it was Turpin's turn to defend. Both lost their crowns, right?

Well, it's not hard to comprehend what did Pedroza did. A remarkable world record for any champion that wore the boxing gloves. He had 10 and he did it, in hostile environments, where the crowd rooted for the local guy. Not for Pedroza.

Is that hard to comprehend, or you just want to ignore the facts?

Tommy Burns had 8 title defenses. Not 11.

First, it's buffoon, not buffon.
I asked Archie at our aerobics class and he said it wasn't that big of a deal.
Pedroza did in 9 not 10. McGuigan doesn't count. Not the same country and he lost.
According to Boxrec, it's 11. Two oft hem weren't really accepted as title fights by anyone else, which leaves him with 9, same as Pedroza. Same as Lennox Lewis. Less than Chavez.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑08 Dec 2017, 16:56

littlepug wrote: ↑08 Dec 2017, 16:49

elmersalsa wrote: ↑08 Dec 2017, 16:15

Nope. They weren't. They were from the same town or country he was fighting.

Well I just counted 12 defences abroad for Mitchell

List them. They come short of Pedroza's.

I come up with 9 in his opponents native country.
Rivera, Fernandez, Londas, Curcetti, Donnell, Bottiglieri, Irving Mitchell, and Lopez twice.
That ties him with Pedroza, defended it 9 times in his opponent's native country.
Also ties whim Lennox Lewis and Tommy Burns. They all trail Chavez.
I'm sure elmer with come up with some BS why some of Mitchell's should not count.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑08 Dec 2017, 17:09

elmersalsa wrote: ↑08 Dec 2017, 16:56

littlepug wrote: ↑08 Dec 2017, 16:49
Well I just counted 12 defences abroad for Mitchell

List them. They come short of Pedroza's.

I come up with 9 in his opponents native country.
Rivera, Fernandez, Londas, Curcetti, Donnell, Bottiglieri, Irving Mitchell, and Lopez twice.
That ties him with Pedroza, defended it 9 times in his opponent's native country.
Also ties whim Lennox Lewis and Tommy Burns. They all trail Chavez.
I'm sure elmer with come up with some BS why some of Mitchell's should not count.

Well, everybody that thinks that Mitchell, Lewis and Chavez had more title defenses than Pedroza is wrong. I will put the facts on the table.

You may want to try looking up fact in a dictionary. You may be surprised that it does not mean anything favors the guy elmer likes.

I actually don't think it means that much if you're a North or South American and fight in the United States..

America has 55 million Latinos and they'remore likely to be Boxing fans than blacks or whites... Not that other nationals can't develop a major fan base in the USA... Pacquiao sure did...but it takes a lot of time and work... Since there's only 3.4 million Filipinos in the United States he had to get a lot of whites, blacks, and Latinos - but Julio Cesar Chavez had a ready fan base... Don King wanted him to win all his fights with Americans - like with Pernell Whitaker for instance.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑25 Nov 2017, 19:44 Here's the list of most World Title Defenses made in Opponent's Backyards. It takes lot of skill and savvy on the road to retain your crown. These men are the champions that did it the best:

Eusebio Pedroza (Panama) -10 times. WBA World Featherweight Title.

Brian Mitchell (South Africa) - 8 times. WBA World Jr Lightweight Title.

Hilario Zapata (Panama)- 8 times. WBC World Jr Flyweight Title in two reigns.

Muhammad Ali (USA) - 5 times. World Heavyweight Title in two reigns.

Carlos Monzon (Argentina) -4 times. World Middleweight Title.

Whats the criteria, the venue of the fight has to be in the same country as the opponent is from or in the same town/area? So for example two Brits could fight, one from Manchester and the other from London but they fight in Manchester, are you classing that as being in his opponents backyard? I also assume you mean successful title defences?

Controversial wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 07:56

elmersalsa wrote: ↑25 Nov 2017, 19:44 Here's the list of most World Title Defenses made in Opponent's Backyards. It takes lot of skill and savvy on the road to retain your crown. These men are the champions that did it the best:

Eusebio Pedroza (Panama) -10 times. WBA World Featherweight Title.

Brian Mitchell (South Africa) - 8 times. WBA World Jr Lightweight Title.

Hilario Zapata (Panama)- 8 times. WBC World Jr Flyweight Title in two reigns.

Muhammad Ali (USA) - 5 times. World Heavyweight Title in two reigns.

Carlos Monzon (Argentina) -4 times. World Middleweight Title.

Whats the criteria, the venue of the fight has to be in the same country as the opponent is from or in the same town/area? So for example two Brits could fight, one from Manchester and the other from London but they fight in Manchester, are you classing that as being in his opponents backyard? I also assume you mean successful title defences?

Exactly. The Manchester vs London boy is a good example.
Criterias are:
It gotta be a title defense of the world crown.
In Opponent's home turf or backyard. Examples are:
Robinson vs Turpin I,
Robinson vs Turpin II,
Moore vs Durelle I,
Pedroza vs Lockridge I,
Ortiz vs Laguna I
Ortiz vs Laguna II

No title defenses that are on the road where the fight is in a neutral site. Las Vegas is considered a neutral site. If the local boxer is from Las Vegas, whether he was born, raised or resides there as his professional boxing career hometown, then it's not a neutral site.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 19:37

Controversial wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 07:56

elmersalsa wrote: ↑25 Nov 2017, 19:44 Here's the list of most World Title Defenses made in Opponent's Backyards. It takes lot of skill and savvy on the road to retain your crown. These men are the champions that did it the best:

Eusebio Pedroza (Panama) -10 times. WBA World Featherweight Title.

Brian Mitchell (South Africa) - 8 times. WBA World Jr Lightweight Title.

Hilario Zapata (Panama)- 8 times. WBC World Jr Flyweight Title in two reigns.

Muhammad Ali (USA) - 5 times. World Heavyweight Title in two reigns.

Carlos Monzon (Argentina) -4 times. World Middleweight Title.

Whats the criteria, the venue of the fight has to be in the same country as the opponent is from or in the same town/area? So for example two Brits could fight, one from Manchester and the other from London but they fight in Manchester, are you classing that as being in his opponents backyard? I also assume you mean successful title defences?

Exactly. The Manchester vs London boy is a good example.
Criterias are:
It gotta be a title defense of the world crown.
In Opponent's home turf or backyard. Examples are:
Robinson vs Turpin I,
Robinson vs Turpin II,
Moore vs Durelle I,
Pedroza vs Lockridge I,
Ortiz vs Laguna I
Ortiz vs Laguna II

No title defenses that are on the road where the fight is in a neutral site. Las Vegas is considered a neutral site. If the local boxer is from Las Vegas, whether he was born, raised or resides there as his professional boxing career hometown, then it's not a neutral site.

Must be Pedroza then, who are the 10 you have though?

Controversial wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 07:07

elmersalsa wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 19:37

Controversial wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 07:56

Whats the criteria, the venue of the fight has to be in the same country as the opponent is from or in the same town/area? So for example two Brits could fight, one from Manchester and the other from London but they fight in Manchester, are you classing that as being in his opponents backyard? I also assume you mean successful title defences?

Exactly. The Manchester vs London boy is a good example.
Criterias are:
It gotta be a title defense of the world crown.
In Opponent's home turf or backyard. Examples are:
Robinson vs Turpin I,
Robinson vs Turpin II,
Moore vs Durelle I,
Pedroza vs Lockridge I,
Ortiz vs Laguna I
Ortiz vs Laguna II

No title defenses that are on the road where the fight is in a neutral site. Las Vegas is considered a neutral site. If the local boxer is from Las Vegas, whether he was born, raised or resides there as his professional boxing career hometown, then it's not a neutral site.

Must be Pedroza then, who are the 10 you have though?

I will show it in just a moment.

Santos Laciar had at least six.

I have him with 7.

While elmer takes a moment, lets review:

We are now not supposed to count fights in Las Vegas, unless one of the fighters is form Las Vegas. After all Las Vegas is a neutral site. huh? Why is Las Vegas a neutral site? One guy may be popular and have a huge following there. One guy might have to travel halfway around the world and the other guy might live in California.
What about Atlantic City? What about New York? Notice that there was no mention of Las Vegas being a neutral site before.
It's almost as if elmer is making this up as he goes along.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 16:05

I will show it in just a moment.

What were they?

Controversial wrote: ↑15 Dec 2017, 06:18

elmersalsa wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 16:05

I will show it in just a moment.

What were they?

These were the great Eusebio Pedroza's world title defenses in opponents' backyards or home turfs. Here they are in chronological order:
1. W15 Enrique Solis, November 27, 1978 in San Juan, Puerto Rico.
2. WTKO13 Royal Kobayashi, January 9, 1979 in Tokyo, Japan.
3. WTKO11 Johnny Aba, November 17, 1979 in Papua, New Guinea
4. W15 Spider Nemoto, January 22, 1980 in Tokyo, Japan
5. WKO8 Sa-Wang Kim, July 20, 1980 in Seoul, South Korea
6. W15 Rocky Lockridge, October 4, 1980 in McAfee, NJ
7. WKO7 Carlos Pinango, August 1, 1981 in Caracas, Venezuela
8. D15 Bernard Taylor, October 16, 1982 in Charlotte, NC
9. W15 Angel Levy Mayor, May 27, 1984 in Maracaibo, Venezuela
10. L15 Barry McGuigan, June 8, 1985 in London, England.

Nobody in the whole entire world has more. He did it with savvy and class in opponents' backyards. I never included his defenses with Mexican great Ruben Olivares in Houston, TX, where the majority of the crowd were Mexicans rooting for Olivares. Nor included the title defense against Puerto Rican Juan LaPorte in Atlantic City, NJ where LaPorte had a huge following and the majority were rooting for him also, even the boxing commentators for cripes sake! I didn't see no one rooting for Pedroza. Still, it would have been 12 instead of 10. And the other title defenses that were on the road against Jose Caba, Lockridge again in the rematch that were in Monte Carlo, Italy would have been 14. That means that this great champion was equipped mentally and physically prepared for any defense on the road. A TRUE WORLD CHAMPION he was. Give him his due!