BoxRec

Kalan wrote: ↑01 Dec 2017, 11:45 Hmmm.... I didn't notice that. I noticed that most Democrats were for Holmes and Republicans were solidly for Cooney,

To be frank, I think most blacks were for Holmes/Ali/Frazier and most whites were for Cooney/Quarry, regardless of how, or if they voted.

The mergence of Coetzee and then the Klitschkos I think softened this, with only the racist whites after that rooting for color.

How many Black fans do you think Jerry Quarry and Gerry Cooney may have had ?
Because they were exciting fighters to watch.

Caractacus wrote: ↑18 Dec 2017, 13:49 How many Black fans do you think Jerry Quarry and Gerry Cooney may have had ?
Because they were exciting fighters to watch.

Not many outside of the black people they actually knew.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑18 Dec 2017, 14:50

Caractacus wrote: ↑18 Dec 2017, 13:49 How many Black fans do you think Jerry Quarry and Gerry Cooney may have had ?
Because they were exciting fighters to watch.

Not many outside of the black people they actually knew.

Why do you think that was ?

As far as people from "The Great White Hope" era that survived up until recent times
(AD 1950)
trainer-manager Dumb Dan Morgan lived up to 1955 (82 yrs)
He was the trainer/manager of "Battling Levinsky"(aka Barney Williams aka Barney Lebowitz)
Dum Dan Morgan's autobiography was published in 1953 (DUMB DAN)
Battling Levinsky had died in 1949.

Caractacus wrote: ↑18 Dec 2017, 15:03

Tony1244 wrote: ↑18 Dec 2017, 14:50

Caractacus wrote: ↑18 Dec 2017, 13:49 How many Black fans do you think Jerry Quarry and Gerry Cooney may have had ?
Because they were exciting fighters to watch.

Not many outside of the black people they actually knew.

Why do you think that was ?

Considering fight fans know the history of Jack Johnson and that certainly well over 98% of politicians and business leaders weren't black, and still aren't, I can hardly blame them for not chanting J((G)ferry..... LOL.

I think they respected them as boxers from what I got speaking to a few, especially Jerry. But it didn't mean they rooted for them.

almost sounds like a form of predudice to me.
because what did Jerry Quarry or Gerry Cooney ever do to anyone to deserve that ?
(except maybe break some people's hearts by not becoming World HEAVYWEIGHT cHAMPION OF COURSE)

I remember in Ken Norton's autobiography,that he got real angry at his trainer Bill Slayton,
because Slayton went over in the ring and hugged Jerry Quarry before the two fought
IN MSG (Slayton once helped train Jerry Quarry earlier).

Dave Mills wasn't a White Hope(I don't think)
,but he was from that era.
He was one of Jack Johnson's sparring partners when Johnson was training to fight Jim J.Jeffries in Reno in 1910.
He died in 1963,(probably in his mid-70's)

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/17390

Caractacus wrote: ↑18 Dec 2017, 15:12 almost sounds like a form of predudice to me.
because what did Jerry Quarry or Gerry Cooney ever do to anyone to deserve that ?
(except maybe break some people's hearts by not becoming World HEAVYWEIGHT cHAMPION OF COURSE)

You seem to contradict yourself. Shocking, right?

So black folks have a "form of prejudice," because they rooted against Cooney and Quarry, but it broke your heart when neither became a champion?

Hopefully, you'll be able to figure this out in a few minites.

I never said that it 'broke My heart" just a lot of their supporters hearts.
Anyway I heard that Jerry Quarry was a pretty good guy so
why would'nt someone wanna root for him other then for the colour of his skin ?
Suppose Jerry Quarry had fought a Russian in 1966,who would you have wanted to win ?

Here is a bit of Boxing history-Frank Moran (who fought Jack Johnson in Paris France in 1914 )
died just 2 days after Howard Sackler's play
THE GREAT WHITE HOPE
had its world premier at the Arena Stage in Washington DC.(December-12-1967)
He was 80 years old.(December-14-19167)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Moran

Caractacus wrote: ↑20 Dec 2017, 14:01 I never said that it 'broke My heart" just a lot of their supporters hearts.
Anyway I heard that Jerry Quarry was a pretty good guy so
why would'nt someone wanna root for him other then for the colour of his skin ?
Suppose Jerry Quarry had fought a Russian in 1966,who would you have wanted to win ?

I rooted for Quarry over Norton, so I definitely would have rooted for Quarry over a Russian.

I never implied, or never meant to, that it was "bad" for a black guy to root for Norton or a white guy to root for Quarry.

Caractacus wrote: ↑12 Dec 2017, 19:29 check out this newspaper article published May.27.1911.
it contains the names of some of the fighters actually involved in the tournament.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid= ... 8297&hl=en

could there be a clue in this newspaper article in the old historian thread ?

Given that Gunboat Smith knocked Jack Johnson down in sparring and beat some quality heavyweights why didn’t he get a title shot?

Once Johnson defeated a rusty and old Jim Jeffries, Smith was probably the best “ White hope “ around from 1911 to 1913.

you know it would have been kinda interesting, if in 1967
(the year the play The Great White Hope was published, a renewed interest in Jack Johson and his times and the year Ali,was forced out of boxing)
if the had another such tournament, involving all the White/Caucasion hwy's
where each one had to fight each other in a round robin tournament,
and the one who had the most wins, fights whomever was the HW Champion at that time
(assuming they were not White/Caucasian)

Anyone mention Luther Mcarty ? He was regarded as some kind of “ white hope “ but died after fighting Artur pelkey for the “ white heavyweight championship “ in 1913. Just a mention. Obviously he’s been gone a long time.

Ted Broadribb, he became a well known manager in the UK, Tommy Farr was one of his proteges.

Broadribb is a reference to the man that ko'ed Carpentier.

mattdonnellon wrote: ↑23 Dec 2024, 11:54 Ted Broadribb, he became a well known manager in the UK, Tommy Farr was one of his proteges.

And Freddie Mills.

When Broadribb beat Carpentier he did so under the name Young Snowball.

Miles Templeton

Tom Cowler was doubtless one of the best British heavyweights of his era. I'd rate him above Bombardier Wells, Frank Goddard, etc. He was considered a white hope who wasn't afraid of black fighters.

I think Jack Johnson vrs Jack "The Giant Killer" Dillon (1891-1942)would
have been a terrific match /
Anyone know why it never happened ?
(possibly because he would have been just 23 in 1914)

Here are some additional names of the "White Hopes" of that era

Jack Lester of Tacoma Washington (promoted by Tommy Burns himself)
https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/Jack_Lester
Arthur Pelkey of Chatham Ontario
Charlie Near-Shot of Yuma Arizona (who wasn't White but actually Native American, but still somebody's hope)
Bill Dunning
"One Man" McCloskey (this is probably "Blink" McCloskey
Gill Hart of Pittsburg
Richard Farrell

Cap wrote: ↑25 Dec 2024, 14:41 Tom Cowler was doubtless one of the best British heavyweights of his era. I'd rate him above Bombardier Wells, Frank Goddard, etc. He was considered a white hope who wasn't afraid of black fighters.

Yes. Clowler was kind of an Anti white type of fighter as he wasn't slow & awkward like most of the white hope's he was a fighter who fought fast paced rounds. He appears to be much better than people might realize.

Caractacus wrote: ↑26 Dec 2024, 13:55 I think Jack Johnson vrs Jack "The Giant Killer" Dillon (1891-1942)would
have been a terrific match /
Anyone know why it never happened ?
(possibly because he would have been just 23 in 1914)

That would of been an outstanding match in 1914. I got tremendous respect for Dillion he wasn't far off Harry Greb. Just as Greb would have a solid chance against Dempsey, I think Jack Dillion would also have a solid chance against Johnson. Although Jack Dillion had some losses to slick boxers the guys with a granite chin & Real hitting power are the key ingredients to score a win over a much bigger man & Jack Dillion had that he was a tremendous fighting force.

Caractacus your not Mark Allen Baker are you? I'm reading his book currently. The world colored Heavyweight Championship. I love the book. I wish I could comment on his Youtube channel.