BoxRec

apollo creed wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 09:47

caldo2025 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 09:25 I'm not sure that i'd call this a cherry pick. Honestly, when I first heard about this fight being signed and billed as Cotto's last fight I was scratching my head and was thinking "Why the hell would he pick Ali of all people?". The reason being, Ali is lightening fast and skilled and was on his way to being highly regarded until getting caught by Vargas.

I don't know if Cotto trained like he was already retired or not but it seemed like every time Ali touched Cotto, he buzzed him. I just thought that Cotto was catching a desperate kid that couldn't afford to lose again. That's not who you want to fight on your way out imo but credit to him for not choosing a soft one. I think that you need to give Ali more credit.

That was a clear case of cherrypicking go wrong. Cotto and his team picked Ali - an 147 pounder who was stopped by Vargas thinking he's gonna be easy work. If Cotto wanted his last fight to be remembered as a solid match he would've picked a decent 154 pounder. Don't forget that he wanted Mikey Garcia.

Nah. Anyone that knows boxing will disagree with you on this one. Even Roy Jones Jr. mentioned it Saturday Night. Cotto could have gone the Wilder route and fight a taxi driver just to get his hands raised and jump up on the turnbuckle but he didn't. No, you're very wrong.

I thought Sadam Ali was a gutsy pick, he has real power. Cotto could have gone out against a feather fisted opponent he could have dominated. Ali was a risk, even though Cotto goes out with the loss he showed he's always had integrity as a fighter.

Badhusker wrote: ↑04 Dec 2017, 07:52 Cotto has had a great career, and always showed up to fight. It was clearly time for him to retire.

This was a cherry pick. Call it what it is folks. Ali was stopped by Jessie Vargas, who has a very low KO% at 147. Ali had never even fought at 154. Kind of like Pacquiao fighting Horn. Freddie Roach needs to retire now too. It would have been much worse for Cotto if they would have lined up Spence, and the most embarrassing would have been Mikey Garcia beating the crap out of Cotto.

Yup. This was straight up and down a cherrypick go wrong! You don't choose a fighter below your division who got stopped in his last fight as a fairly-decent opponent.

Speaking about the alleged injury, how were they able to diagnose it if MRI is still to be done ?

http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/miguel- ... ry-update/

Cotto didn't tell anything to his corner and kept using his left hand without any visible changes.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 Dec 2017, 05:36Martinez was the betting favourite against Cotto. FACT!

We both agree about Cotto NOT "cherry picking" Martinez. FACT!

Sometimes upsets happen in boxing. FACT!

I'm not getting embroiled with your other remarks, since you're seemingly arguing against claims that I have never made.

End of thread!

Paul Williams beat Erislandy Lara 116-114, 115-114, 114-114.
End of thread!

Andre Ward beat Sergei Kovalev 115-113 on all cards.
End of thread!

Floyd Mayweather beat Jose Luis Castillo 116-111, 115-111 (2)
End of thread!

Timothy Bradley beats Manny Pacquiao 115-113 (2), 113-115
End of thread!

I often wonder about the intelligent people I meet who rely on FACTS without CONTEXT.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote: ↑04 Dec 2017, 16:41

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 Dec 2017, 05:36Martinez was the betting favourite against Cotto. FACT!

We both agree about Cotto NOT "cherry picking" Martinez. FACT!

Sometimes upsets happen in boxing. FACT!

I'm not getting embroiled with your other remarks, since you're seemingly arguing against claims that I have never made.

End of thread!

Paul Williams beat Erislandy Lara 116-114, 115-114, 114-114.
End of thread!

Andre Ward beat Sergei Kovalev 115-113 on all cards.
End of thread!

Floyd Mayweather beat Jose Luis Castillo 116-111, 115-111 (2)
End of thread!

Timothy Bradley beats Manny Pacquiao 115-113 (2), 113-115
End of thread!

I often wonder about the intelligent people I meet who rely on FACTS without CONTEXT.

"I often wonder about the intelligent people I meet who" list things out of "CONTEXT."

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑04 Dec 2017, 13:24 Speaking about the alleged injury, how were they able to diagnose it if MRI is still to be done ?

http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/miguel- ... ry-update/

Cotto didn't tell anything to his corner and kept using his left hand without any visible changes.

He used it less and with more negligible effect. He showed it on camera. It looked like a tear to me. He did not make a big deal about it, just pointed it out and essentially shrugged his shoulders, in Cotto fashion.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 10:01

apollo creed wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 07:19 Yeah I thought this is gonna be an easy one for Cotto to look good in his last career fight but it went pretty damn wrong. Cotto cherrypicked an old-handicapped Martinez and he got a big succes but this time he screwed it.

Was Cotto a successful hypejob fighter? Yes and NO. Let's not forget that Cotto's best performances were against Floyd and Canelo although he lost both those fights. Cotto must regret he didn't retire after the fight Kamegai.

Martinez was the betting favourite against Cotto. FACT! This renders the entirely of your point as being irrelevant.

End of thread!

According to Boxrec, Martinez was a 1.8 - 1 underdog

Ron C wrote: ↑04 Dec 2017, 20:02

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 10:01

apollo creed wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 07:19 Yeah I thought this is gonna be an easy one for Cotto to look good in his last career fight but it went pretty damn wrong. Cotto cherrypicked an old-handicapped Martinez and he got a big succes but this time he screwed it.

Was Cotto a successful hypejob fighter? Yes and NO. Let's not forget that Cotto's best performances were against Floyd and Canelo although he lost both those fights. Cotto must regret he didn't retire after the fight Kamegai.

Martinez was the betting favourite against Cotto. FACT! This renders the entirely of your point as being irrelevant.

End of thread!

According to Boxrec, Martinez was a 1.8 - 1 underdog

The BoxRec page can be edited by any of its members, which means it probably contains utter bôllôcks!

Here are some links to prove the blatantly fûckîng obvious:
http://www.oddsshark.com/boxing/martine ... s-and-odds
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.badl ... m-favorite
http://www.sportsbetlistings.com/boxing ... tion/5580/
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mmam ... r-view-ppv

I could list more evidence if you like.

I actually can't fûckîng believe I've had to provide proof of something so incredibly obvious,

One simple fact, which is incredibly easy to verify, renders the entirely of this thread as being irrelevant!

End of thread!

BAD INTENTIONS wrote: ↑04 Dec 2017, 16:41

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 Dec 2017, 05:36Martinez was the betting favourite against Cotto. FACT!

We both agree about Cotto NOT "cherry picking" Martinez. FACT!

Sometimes upsets happen in boxing. FACT!

I'm not getting embroiled with your other remarks, since you're seemingly arguing against claims that I have never made.

End of thread!

Paul Williams beat Erislandy Lara 116-114, 115-114, 114-114.
End of thread!

Andre Ward beat Sergei Kovalev 115-113 on all cards.
End of thread!

Floyd Mayweather beat Jose Luis Castillo 116-111, 115-111 (2)
End of thread!

Timothy Bradley beats Manny Pacquiao 115-113 (2), 113-115
End of thread!

I often wonder about the intelligent people I meet who rely on FACTS without CONTEXT.

EO is pronouncing the word 'FACTS' even when he's $hitting to convince himself that he's really $hitting.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑05 Dec 2017, 03:56

Ron C wrote: ↑04 Dec 2017, 20:02

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 10:01
Martinez was the betting favourite against Cotto. FACT! This renders the entirely of your point as being irrelevant.

End of thread!

According to Boxrec, Martinez was a 1.8 - 1 underdog

The BoxRec page can be edited by any of its members, which means it probably contains utter bôllôcks!

Here are some links to prove the blatantly fûckîng obvious:
http://www.oddsshark.com/boxing/martine ... s-and-odds
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.badl ... m-favorite
http://www.sportsbetlistings.com/boxing ... tion/5580/
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mmam ... r-view-ppv

I could list more evidence if you like.

I actually can't fûckîng believe I've had to provide proof of something so incredibly obvious,

One simple fact, which is incredibly easy to verify, renders the entirely of this thread as being irrelevant!

End of thread!

Sadam Ali is a welter who was stopped in his last fight by Jessie Vargas at 147lbs! Cotto was a top jr middleweight! FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFACTAS!

apollo creed wrote: ↑05 Dec 2017, 14:27

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑05 Dec 2017, 03:56

Ron C wrote: ↑04 Dec 2017, 20:02

According to Boxrec, Martinez was a 1.8 - 1 underdog

The BoxRec page can be edited by any of its members, which means it probably contains utter bôllôcks!

Here are some links to prove the blatantly fûckîng obvious:
http://www.oddsshark.com/boxing/martine ... s-and-odds
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.badl ... m-favorite
http://www.sportsbetlistings.com/boxing ... tion/5580/
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mmam ... r-view-ppv

I could list more evidence if you like.

I actually can't fûckîng believe I've had to provide proof of something so incredibly obvious,

One simple fact, which is incredibly easy to verify, renders the entirely of this thread as being irrelevant!

End of thread!

Sadam Ali is a welter who was stopped in his last fight by Jessie Vargas at 147lbs! Cotto was a top jr middleweight! FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFACTAS!

What you've just said is irrelevant to the topic and title of this thread. FACT!

You claimed that "Cotto cherrypicked an old-handicapped Martinez", but the universal pre-fight betting odds clearly disprove that utterly moronic claim. FACT!

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑05 Dec 2017, 15:33

apollo creed wrote: ↑05 Dec 2017, 14:27

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑05 Dec 2017, 03:56
The BoxRec page can be edited by any of its members, which means it probably contains utter bôllôcks!

Here are some links to prove the blatantly fûckîng obvious:
http://www.oddsshark.com/boxing/martine ... s-and-odds
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.badl ... m-favorite
http://www.sportsbetlistings.com/boxing ... tion/5580/
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mmam ... r-view-ppv

I could list more evidence if you like.

I actually can't fûckîng believe I've had to provide proof of something so incredibly obvious,

One simple fact, which is incredibly easy to verify, renders the entirely of this thread as being irrelevant!

End of thread!

Sadam Ali is a welter who was stopped in his last fight by Jessie Vargas at 147lbs! Cotto was a top jr middleweight! FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFACTAS!

What you've just said is irrelevant to the topic and title of this thread. FACT!

You claimed that "Cotto cherrypicked an old-handicapped Martinez", but the universal pre-fight betting odds clearly disprove that utterly moronic claim. FACT!

YOU ARE WRONG AS USUAL! Cotto knew very well that Martinez was damaged goods. That's why he took the fight! The rest was all hype.

Cotto has never really achieved a status of a top JMW. His best achievements were at 147 and below. I don't count a win over crippled Martinez or B/C level fighters he defeated at 154.

apollo creed wrote: ↑05 Dec 2017, 17:23

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑05 Dec 2017, 15:33

apollo creed wrote: ↑05 Dec 2017, 14:27

Sadam Ali is a welter who was stopped in his last fight by Jessie Vargas at 147lbs! Cotto was a top jr middleweight! FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFACTAS!

What you've just said is irrelevant to the topic and title of this thread. FACT!

You claimed that "Cotto cherrypicked an old-handicapped Martinez", but the universal pre-fight betting odds clearly disprove that utterly moronic claim. FACT!

YOU ARE WRONG AS USUAL! Cotto knew very well that Martinez was damaged goods. That's why he took the fight! The rest was all hype.

I've already proved my claim multiple times, by citing evidence from several reliable third-party sources, but you cannot.

I can't believe there are people out there that the Enlightened-One can look smart against. Man, what blatant pin-heads. I'm reading this thread and seeing that the Enlightened-One is owning you genetic retards.

Martinez being a betting favorite against Cotto doesn't prove anything. It doesn't mean that specialists like Roach couldn't see that he was damaged goods.

Cotto himself was -1000 favorite against Ali which didn't mean that some people couldn't see signs of decline. Bookies are in business of making money, not accurately estimating opponents. If a bunch of morons were ready to put money on Martinez against Cotto, bookies were happy to keep odds in Sergio's favor. The same with Cotto vs Ali.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑06 Dec 2017, 22:31 Martinez being a betting favorite against Cotto doesn't prove anything. It doesn't mean that specialists like Roach couldn't see that he was damaged goods.

Cotto himself was -1000 favorite against Ali which didn't mean that some people couldn't see signs of decline. Bookies are in business of making money, not accurately estimating opponents. If a bunch of morons were ready to put money on Martinez against Cotto, bookies were happy to keep odds in Sergio's favor. The same with Cotto vs Ali.

Such blatant revision of history from you idiots. The narrative throughout all the boxing forums was that Cotto had no chance and Martinez was cherry-picking him. You need to stop making stuff up. You're looking like a complete idiot.

Overwhelming majority of boxing forum participants are no specialists, but even on this forum quite a few people were picking Cotto.

I was talking about specialists, not fans. I was saying that Roach could see that Martinez was shot.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑07 Dec 2017, 00:03 Overwhelming majority of boxing forum participants are no specialists, but even on this forum quite a few people were picking Cotto.

I was talking about specialists, not fans. I was saying that Roach could see that Martinez was shot.

You douche. Who the hell do you think the bookies go to get odds? Yeah, I'm sure Vegas is in the business to lose money that's why they get complete idiots to make up the odds. Man, you are sounding like a brainless drone right now. Just stop.

The overwhelming majority thought Martinez was going to steamroll Cotto. In addition, no one bought that Cotto was a better fighter from the Rodriguez fight. Mix that all up and you had Martinez as an overwhelming favorite who everyone thought was cherry-picking tiny Cotto up until Cotto blasted him out and showed there are levels to this. Martinez was always overrated and Cotto was always the better fighter.

I don't understand the Cotto bashing. He's had a great career and often chose opponents based on merit - he wasn't a cherry picker. He maybe ducked Golovkin but so does everyone else.

think a lot of it comes from ggg nut boys who are sore that cotto swerved him when he had the wbc.they were salivating at the thought of what they presumed was an easy win with ggg beating up a much smaller name guy for another belt.maybe also some hardcore floyd fans who cant stand that ppl claim cotto won rounds.you know the same type who still venomly hates manny like its personal, simply because he was floyds rival.

cotto gave a lot to boxing. fought excellent opposition,moved up several divisions to challenge himself, lots of good wins, consistently entertaining, good crowd atmospheres, could box or fight it out and break guys down. little bit of everything.

my biggest criticism/question is: why the f@ck did he look like a deer in headlights in every f@cking photo.

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑07 Dec 2017, 01:00

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑07 Dec 2017, 00:03 Overwhelming majority of boxing forum participants are no specialists, but even on this forum quite a few people were picking Cotto.

I was talking about specialists, not fans. I was saying that Roach could see that Martinez was shot.

You douche. Who the hell do you think the bookies go to get odds? Yeah, I'm sure Vegas is in the business to lose money that's why they get complete idiots to make up the odds.

You are a complete idiot. Odds are based on demand. If people are willing to bet on Martinez against Cotto or on Cotto against Ali, bookies will be happy to support that. They just need more money in the game. If majority of casual gamblers thinks that Martinez would win, bookies won't have odds based on an opposite opinion of a few specialists.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑07 Dec 2017, 10:09

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑07 Dec 2017, 01:00

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑07 Dec 2017, 00:03 Overwhelming majority of boxing forum participants are no specialists, but even on this forum quite a few people were picking Cotto.

I was talking about specialists, not fans. I was saying that Roach could see that Martinez was shot.

You douche. Who the hell do you think the bookies go to get odds? Yeah, I'm sure Vegas is in the business to lose money that's why they get complete idiots to make up the odds.

You are a complete idiot. Odds are based on demand. If people are willing to bet on Martinez against Cotto or on Cotto against Ali, bookies will be happy to support that. They just need more money in the game. If majority of casual gamblers thinks that Martinez would win, bookies won't have odds based on an opposite opinion of a few specialists.

You are beyond help.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑06 Dec 2017, 22:31 Martinez being a betting favorite against Cotto doesn't prove anything. It doesn't mean that specialists like Roach couldn't see that he was damaged goods.

Cotto himself was -1000 favorite against Ali which didn't mean that some people couldn't see signs of decline. Bookies are in business of making money, not accurately estimating opponents. If a bunch of morons were ready to put money on Martinez against Cotto, bookies were happy to keep odds in Sergio's favor. The same with Cotto vs Ali.

Some people are so blinded. Martinez was visible on a decline and with one good leg. Cotto and his coach saw that but with Sadam Ali who got stopped in his last fight at 147 lbs they got wrong.