BoxRec

Ned Merrill wrote: ↑25 Dec 2017, 00:46 I wanna see more from the fine Ukraine star, and against guys bigger than him, under the age of virtual ring senior citizenry.

We've seen enough from Lomachenko.... He HAS fought guys bigger than him... Nicholas Walters has height, weight, and reach on Loma... Walters was forced out of the Featherweight Division because he could no longer make the weight.... Walters was also a young guy... Gary Russell is a completely undefeated, super fast youngster, except for his Lomachenko loss... Why can't Russell or Walters get any more big fights???? ... For no other reason than they lost to the Ukrainian and if they got more big fights that would reflect favorably on Loma... Remember, they threatened Rigondeaux with the loss of his World Super Bantamweight Title if he dared fight Lomachenko -- and they followed through on that threat.

How does Loma move up in weight to fight Mikey Garcia -- when they have Garcia move up to 140 to escape him???

Kalan wrote: ↑25 Dec 2017, 19:40

Ned Merrill wrote: ↑25 Dec 2017, 00:46 I wanna see more from the fine Ukraine star, and against guys bigger than him, under the age of virtual ring senior citizenry.

We've seen enough from Lomachenko.... He HAS fought guys bigger than him... Nicholas Walters has height, weight, and reach on Loma... Walters was forced out of the Featherweight Division because he could no longer make the weight.... Walters was also a young guy... Gary Russell is a completely undefeated, super fast youngster, except for his Lomachenko loss... Why can't Russell or Walters get any more big fights???? ... For no other reason than they lost to the Ukrainian and if they got more big fights that would reflect favorably on Loma... Remember, they threatened Rigondeaux with the loss of his World Super Bantamweight Title if he dared fight Lomachenko -- and they followed through on that threat.

How does Loma move up in weight to fight Mikey Garcia -- when they have Garcia move up to 140 to escape him???

No, I haven't seen enough of Lomanchenko, thank you. I absolutely factor in LONGETIVITY when I look into greatness. Sure, he's fought bigger guys than him, but me thinks, based on 43 years of following this sport, we can easily fall into premature ejaculation when we start reaching to crown somebody. It has been done with many fighters. The arc of a career tells the tale. I wanna see Lomanchenko over time, MORE TIME. That is stated in kindness and appreciation. His discernment and ring generalship to me suggest he is exactly, or just about, on par with Mayweather. At 29 with only a mere 9 bouts behind him (and not just any ordinary 9 bouts, to be sure), me thinks he is on par with the Mayweather of say......1998 or so, but I am not convinced he would have defeated that Mayweather.

To your question about Russel or Walters, I believe Lomanchenko is of a higher pedigree, I know it was recognized by those good at such things and as such he is FAR BETTER connected and on an express track to opportunities most others dream about. The obvious talent Walters and Russel possess does not readily reflect, or did not, necessarily reflect their character or strength of resolve before Lomanchenko defeated them. I don't really care to worship any fighter or his ability to utter threats and make good on them. I don't care to go around telling fans with different views or opinions that my dog can whip theirs. Lomanchenko is at a very deserved high point right now. I like that he wants to aim higher. I like that he dismisses the Rigo win based on Rigo's having moved up. It was a high profile bout but one based more about moving forward and making money, and Lomanchenko himself isn't making any more of it. Lets see him continue to ascend. Lets see him face Garcia. I believe Lomanchenko would win that bout, but before I strut the point.....I got to see it.

I need to see, want to see, the story arc play out.

[

Ned Merrill wrote: ↑26 Dec 2017, 11:20 Sure, he's fought bigger guys than him, but me thinks, based on 43 years of following this sport, we can easily fall into premature ejaculation when we start reaching to crown somebody. It has been done with many fighters ..... with only a mere 9 bouts behind him (and not just any ordinary 9 bouts, to be sure), me thinks he is on par with the Mayweather of say......1998

Hmmm.... You don't count very well... Lomachenko has had eleven (11) pro fights not 9.

And I've followed the sport a lot longer than 43 years... When it came to premature ejaculation, people were going overboard with Ali adulation before he won a title.... He was very charismatic and popular, but sure enough -- when Ali fought Frazier and Norton when he was 29 and 31 and other less than masterful boxers later in his career -- he got out-boxed, out-punched, got decked hard, got his jaw broken etc....and also beaten by a tyro like Leon Spinks....

One thing I'm sure you'll tell me with all your experience as a spectator .... is that Lomachenko is a much better defensive boxer .... plots his offensive shots to the head and body much better .... and fires off combinations the world has never seen before from any other boxer.... And one thing you'll NEVER see from Lomachenko that we saw from Ali - Loma laying on the ropes taking all kind of head shots as if he were Joe Bugner or some chump punching bag.

Now, you say Lomachenko is on par with Floyd Mayweather 2 years into Floyd's pro career.... Presumably when Floyd beat Genaro Hernandez for the 130-pound title when he was 21 and in his 18th fight.... How about when Floyd was 25 in his 28th pro fight versus Jose Luis Castillo??? ..... A lot of people and the HBO crew thought Floyd lost to the crude swinging Mexican... Castillo would never go 10 rounds with the 2017 version of Lomachenko.... Floyd never carried the P4P fire-power OR the defensive or offensive legerdemain that Lomachenko carries in his hands, feet, and extremely mobile body.

Mayweather was probably the best candidate for P4P all-time greatest fighter (Boxrec.com and many others have Floyd rated the best ever) before Vasyl Lomachenko showed up - but Mikey Garcia, who displayed masterful skills versus the much bigger Adrian Broner, and Lomachenko, both have better pure boxing instincts than Mayweather had.

There's another candidate besides Ali, Loma, May, and Mikey whom some "experts" frequently put forth as the all-time greatest boxer -- Sugar Ray Robinson.... I dismiss SRR completely, because he was beaten by huge underdog Ralph Jones - a cherry-picked opponent who came off of 5 straight losses to knock the crap out Robinson over 10 rounds... Robinson refused a rematch.... Sugar Ray was also decked by inept swingers like Tommy Bell... Artie Levine... Rocky Graziano... Joke LaMotta... Rocky Castellani and others because his chin was hanging out there like an Lantern in a storm.

For all those reasons and others, such as winning 396 of 397 amateur fights and 2 Olympic Gold Medals - Lomachenko should be recognized as the best Queensberry Rules performer ever.

Floyd tames him, boxes from the outside making Lomachenkos angles useless. Floyd isn't no little Rigondeaux and IMO the greatest Super Featherweight ever. Get off the Lomachenko koolaide, Floyd boxes the Sox off that boy.

Kalan wrote: ↑27 Dec 2017, 04:09 [

Ned Merrill wrote: ↑26 Dec 2017, 11:20 Sure, he's fought bigger guys than him, but me thinks, based on 43 years of following this sport, we can easily fall into premature ejaculation when we start reaching to crown somebody. It has been done with many fighters ..... with only a mere 9 bouts behind him (and not just any ordinary 9 bouts, to be sure), me thinks he is on par with the Mayweather of say......1998

Hmmm.... You don't count very well... Lomachenko has had eleven (11) pro fights not 9.

And I've followed the sport a lot longer than 43 years... When it came to premature ejaculation, people were going overboard with Ali adulation before he won a title.... He was very charismatic and popular, but sure enough -- when Ali fought Frazier and Norton when he was 29 and 31 and other less than masterful boxers later in his career -- he got out-boxed, out-punched, got decked hard, got his jaw broken etc....and also beaten by a tyro like Leon Spinks....

One thing I'm sure you'll tell me with all your experience as a spectator .... is that Lomachenko is a much better defensive boxer .... plots his offensive shots to the head and body much better .... and fires off combinations the world has never seen before from any other boxer.... And one thing you'll NEVER see from Lomachenko that we saw from Ali - Loma laying on the ropes taking all kind of head shots as if he were Joe Bugner or some chump punching bag.

Now, you say Lomachenko is on par with Floyd Mayweather 2 years into Floyd's pro career.... Presumably when Floyd beat Genaro Hernandez for the 130-pound title when he was 21 and in his 18th fight.... How about when Floyd was 25 in his 28th pro fight versus Jose Luis Castillo??? ..... A lot of people and the HBO crew thought Floyd lost to the crude swinging Mexican... Castillo would never go 10 rounds with the 2017 version of Lomachenko.... Floyd never carried the P4P fire-power OR the defensive or offensive legerdemain that Lomachenko carries in his hands, feet, and extremely mobile body.

Mayweather was probably the best candidate for P4P all-time greatest fighter (Boxrec.com and many others have Floyd rated the best ever) before Vasyl Lomachenko showed up - but Mikey Garcia, who displayed masterful skills versus the much bigger Adrian Broner, and Lomachenko, both have better pure boxing instincts than Mayweather had.

There's another candidate besides Ali, Loma, May, and Mikey whom some "experts" frequently put forth as the all-time greatest boxer -- Sugar Ray Robinson.... I dismiss SRR completely, because he was beaten by huge underdog Ralph Jones - a cherry-picked opponent who came off of 5 straight losses to knock the crap out Robinson over 10 rounds... Robinson refused a rematch.... Sugar Ray was also decked by inept swingers like Tommy Bell... Artie Levine... Rocky Graziano... Joke LaMotta... Rocky Castellani and others because his chin was hanging out there like an Lantern in a storm.

For all those reasons and others, such as winning 396 of 397 amateur fights and 2 Olympic Gold Medals - Lomachenko should be recognized as the best Queensberry Rules performer ever.

Curious. You seem challenging and angry in each of your posts, and that's when you aren't condescending and presumptuous.

I'm going to take back everything I've said. You've labeled me a spectator. I'm gonna say it now, I don't "know" anything. I'll even go a step further. Perhaps my 43 years of following this sport were a waste of time. Perhaps your 60 or 75 years amount to far more. Maybe my 43 years would have been better spent doing other things. I could have saved all of that time and simply asked you about a given bout, era or fighter, and got the "real" take on reality.

So lets clear a few things up. At no point, Kalan, was I "counting". I may have made an error when I listed Lomanchenko as having 9 bouts but at no point in my previous post or in any of the handful I've made since joining this forum have I "counted" anything. Thinking back to Felix Trinidad, didn't he have 42 total bouts, or if that number is a mistake, and I have to refer to BOXREC, does it suggest I am completely ignorant? I trust YOU will always be there to correct me, correct my thinking and tell me how to view things.

From what I have read on these boards there are some truly fine and intelligent posters who love boxing, and see things from a balanced perspective. Perhaps each and every member of this forum ought to pack it in, and I don't just mean as regular or occasional posters. I mean as fans or folk that may have in some way taken part in the sport of boxing. Maybe we all ought to just stop. We can take it even further. We can all just stop posting, sharing views and thoughts and even stop following the sport completely. No more watching fights. The bouts, the four round walkouts all of the way up to super fights should just be held in a barn, way out in a desolate, lonely field somewhere, in front of only you. Just you Kalan.

I'm gonna throw out all of my VHS tapes, my discs and get rid of all the external hard drives full of bouts. There's no need for them and no need for me to watch anymore. I've got you, Kalan.

You can tell us how it all went down. There'd be no need for any of us to see for ourselves or formulate thoughts views and opinions. You'd have complete control and we'd all get it right. Even the so-called historians and experts.

golden oldie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2017, 05:35

Kalan wrote: ↑18 Dec 2017, 16:56 It's not his job to avoid all possible punishment in a prize fight ... but to win.

Even by your cretinous standards that is taking fukkin stupidity to a new level.

Are you some poor disabled sop whose wife slaps him around the head and spits in his food, by any chance? A kind of Ruby's victim from the Kenny Rogers song, perhaps?

I only ask as there must be a reason why you persistently write such revisionist drivel.

He’s a troll. He’s already contradicted himself completely on this subject in another thread....

golden oldie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2017, 06:24

Tomasino wrote: ↑28 Dec 2017, 06:02

golden oldie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2017, 05:35



Even by your cretinous standards that is taking fukkin stupidity to a new level.

Are you some poor disabled sop whose wife slaps him around the head and spits in his food, by any chance? A kind of Ruby's victim from the Kenny Rogers song, perhaps?

I only ask as there must be a reason why you persistently write such revisionist drivel.

He’s a troll. He’s already contradicted himself completely on this subject in another thread....

Oh, I'm fully aware of that Tomasino. I just had to point out the moronic stupidity of him referring to the blantantly fukkin obvious as though it is some kind of revelation. One can only wonder at the level of idiocy pervading in his family if he is supposed to be the clever one.

It's not his job to avoid all possible punishment in a prize fight ... but to win.

I wonder why NO ONE else in the history of the fight game never worked out if you avoid all possible punishment the chances are you will win before Kolon blessed us with his insight.

His ‘big tall heavyweight’ patter is hilarious! Imagine him trying convince his mum of this while she feeds him baby food in his play pen (cage)

golden oldie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2017, 05:35

Kalan wrote: ↑18 Dec 2017, 16:56 It's not his job to avoid all possible punishment in a prize fight ... but to win.

Even by your cretinous standards that is taking fukkin stupidity to a new level.

Did someone hit you too many times in the head with a frying pan idiot??? .... or use your head for a punch bag

It's NOT a boxer's job to avoid all possible punishment... Because if he DID he'd be running and grabbing and holding and making a stinking fight... It's your job to take calculated risks to land punches and provide a fistic battle for the fans...

golden oldie wrote: ↑03 Jan 2018, 07:37
" The art of hitting, and not being hit. "

Ask one of your fellow window lickers to explain the above to you.

Old-N-Moldie...you're so bereft of common sense that your job must be cleaning toilets with your tongue…

You spend all day making up new insults until it damaged your brain in new and as yet unexamined ways.

Even woefully painful to watch “safety first” fighters who almost NEVER hear their phones ringing from promoters need to take RISKS sometime, if they ever want to win a fight or provide a fight for the fans.... Boxing is inherently RISKY.

The art of hitting without getting hit sounds great in theory... Who has made it work in practice??? NOBODY!!!

EVERY boxer gets hit... If you’re a puzzy who who can’t stand getting punched in the face??? .... DON'T be a boxer.

Any boxer who thought their job was to avoid ANY punch at ANY cost would get very few fights - because NO spectator wants to watch a running, grabbing, wrestling, chickenshitting, stinkhole fighter.... It’s a FIGHT not a dance you idiotic, mongoloid fruit bowl.... Few love getting into a boxing ring to play pitty pat with some fellow wimp.... Ingemar Johansson was disqualified from competing further in the Olympic Games because he was doing more running than fighting.... He was taking no risks, dancing around, and throwing pitty pats when the fans and referee had enough.... Ingo learned a great lesson from that DQ and was dramatically more risk tolerant in future fights.

A better definition of Boxing is the art of hitting your opponent more times and harder than he hits you...

In practice you take a soft punch to land a harder punch... It's the same concept as trading a pawn for a knight in chess... If you're well matched in a fight that WILL be dramatic and entertaining for the fans - you'll LOVE the competition and action... even if you're getting hit at times... If you DON'T like your job there is something WRONG with you... QUIT and find something you like because life is too damned short to spend it doing something you hate.

I'm sure Anthony Joshua loved the experience of his fight with Wladimir Klitschko... Weathering hard shots and coming back to win is as exhilarating as going through a war and conquering the hated enemy....shooting, knifing, blowing up, and variously killing a busload of the enemy and coming out of with your limbs intact with maybe a short stint in the hospital for a fractured arm or whatever.... Considering what you've been through the punishment is worth it.... That was back in World War 2 of course.... Today, all out war between major powers is no longer a feasible option for the sane.

Many people hate war but still love violence.... They love to watch violence, love threatening violence, and love physically beating other human beings in a clear demonstration of mental, physical, and emotional superiority.... That's why combat sports were invented - to vent the combative nature and warrior mentality that many are born with... Depending on your mental and physical gifts and emotional traits imbedded in your genes - you may prefer to "slug it out" or prefer being an "untouchable" boxing master... Good luck with that last option.

World Champions have actually thanked me and called me a master because I know a thing or 2 about defense... The right balance, footwork, and timing to draw a lead from your opponent... the right counter and leverage for whatever lead.... and how to keep your opponent from grabbing, keep him from throwing, and the best ways to get angles on him.

You don't know a damned thing except pretending to be a keyboard tough guy who claims he would pay good money to kill me with a baseball bat.... Are you related to Internet Troll Charlie Zelenoff by any chance??? ... You have roughly the same brain power and Walter Mitty grasp on reality that Charlie has.

If you came at me with a bat I would rip it out of your hands, shove it up your ass, and break it off.... The splinters would make it difficult to extract.... Then I would physically sail you bodily into the nearest tree.... That would finish you off for good but I would claim self defense... I would get off scott free and you would suffer the death penalty for showing your face on my property.... I would use the above post as proof of your death threats and evil intentions...

Kalan wrote: ↑05 Jan 2018, 02:18 World Champions have actually thanked me and called me a master because I know a thing or 2 about defense...