BoxRec

bennie wrote:

DIRT SUGAR wrote:Not being nasty at all, but he's always come on the sites with his opinions so it would be interesting to see what he has to say regarding his training methods in the light of his defeat and the points of view of some of the fella's posting on here.

I don't believe this lack of training theory for one minute. Haye simply hadn't had enough 'rounds' under his belt. I could cite a thousand examples of fighters - after a run of quick knockouts - blowing up and getting stopped.
They all trained hard in the gym, too.

First of all well all credit to Haye for demanding the fight, in this day and age, its a refreshing change.

The thing is experience. Haye was 2/9 Why?

Thompson was 3/1, I had £40 on him. The gulf in experience is massive.

People say Haye nearly KO'd Carl in the first. I dont agree, he caught him yes, but Carl had his chin tucked in nice and his jerky style exagerrates his opponents shots.

Carl was actually catching David with full flush jabs from the first round. Haye may have been faster but Carls timing was better. Every time Haye loaded up (all the time) Carl would stop him with the jab.

IMO Carls jab was excellent and it won hin the fight. He beat Haye to the punch regularly.

If Maurice Core devised a fight plan where Carl would utilise his jab, full marks.

If Adam Booth told Haye to go out and trade with Carl from the off, Haye should get a new trainer.

Haye could do better in a rematch, provided he boxes. He needs to work on his defence.

As Mighty Warrior mentioned to me at the fight, Haye could end up like Errol Christie in terms of unfulfilled promise.

He needs to learn hit and not get hit. Can Adam Booth help him? I think not.

Haye was moving a world class cruiser across the ring with single shots. I think his power looked evident, but Thompson just absorbed a heck of a lot.

At the time it looked like Haye was close to stopping him, and he did have him hurt, however, watching the replay, a lot of those shots which Haye threw when Thompson was on the ropes were getting blocked by gloves, or were cuffing shots.

Haye hardly threw a single straight shot in the entire fight, preferring to land cudgeling hooks, I think he may have been banking on a stoppage by the referee, which had this been a less significant fight may well have been the case.

Haye's power is still impressive, but he would do better to give himself punching room in future, because he was smothering a lot of his own work by sitting right on top of carl. A long armed guy with his frame should be using his long shots, and should be setting himself up with the jab.

In hindsight, Thompson's piss poor footwork makes him look worse than he is, he is always one step behind his opponent, and so looks like he is about to fall over, which he is, but more over his own feet than anything else.

Carl was hurt, but I don't think he was really very close to going down, if he was he would have dropped when Haye leant all over him on the ropes in the 1st, trying to shove him to the canvas to get the count.

I think Haye's power is for real, but his delivery of it could be improved by using a more measured style. Swatting at your opponent with big clumsy hooks when they are on the ropes will not produce KO's against a durable guy with the sort of experience Carl has. Had Haye stuck the jab out to gradually dispirit Carl, and then unfurled long right hands he could have done the job over 5-6 rounds, but then, that's experience for you.

Writing Haye off at this stage is silly, but a lot will depend on his willingness to take this loss on board and really adapt and adopt differing strategies in the ring. He must learn to survive when hurt instead of relying on his power to get him out of trouble, that strategy is too high risk, unless you're Nigel Benn, it's not going to be very successful, and I don't think Haye has Nige's ability to remain dangerous when hurt.

Even when badly hurt and fatigued, Haye elected to stand and trade, when he should have been holding on, part of winning fights is all about doing whatever you have to survive. I think Haye figured it was shit or bust, and that he would go down swinging, when a more experienced fighter might have ridden the storm (as Carl did), and come back later in the fight. After all, Haye was clearly winning the fight until the knockdown, and although Carl was coming on, his workrate these days is hardly phenomenal. It was a case of too much too soon.

Having watched Carl in back to back fights, I have to agree with Knockout artist that Carl is deceptive, he often looks more hurt than he is when in fact he knows what he's doing in there. It's a nightmare for opponents, because he looks like he's going to go any moment, and then he comes roaring back as if nothing happened.

One thing is for sure, Haye needs to get some rounds under his belt. He needs to go out there and box a few rounds before going all out if he's going to learn anything, because most fighters won't be able to take his power, so if he wants to get rounds he needs to be patient and box his way to those knockouts instead of coming out all guns blazing and getting 1st and 2nd round KO's.

Haye is still young, he can come back from this, but some serious changes need to be made before he becomes a real world title threat, there are a lot of tough nuts at top level in the division, nobody really special, but they won't fold the first time they get tagged either.

I really wish I'd stuck some money on Carl, I fancied a flutter, and didn't follow it up.

Haye needs to work on defence also, he just doesnt have one. I really dont think that hands down style is for him.

007 wrote:Haye needs to work on defence also, he just doesnt have one. I really dont think that hands down style is for him.

it wouldn't be such a weakness if he used his jab, and boxed from range like he should do.

James makes a good point about not many clean shots landing by Haye. What would happen...Haye would land a good clean shot..Thompson would stagger prompting and barrage big bombs, but Thompson would cover up, and very few landed clean.

If Haye had been far more patient, picked his shots, i dont think Carl would of given him much trouble at all. Basically, Haye blew it.

That goes without saying. That hands down style doesn't really suit all but a very few fighters in history. Haye isn't flexible enough to use that style, he's too stiff, Froch too. If he doesn't abandon that style, I think he's going to get clocked again by decent opposition.

It will be very interesting to hear what Haye has to say about the fight, and also how he looks when he comes back for his next contest.

I think Haye needs to take some time out to work on a few things, rather than going in there and bowling someone out quick time.

Haye hasn't got a left hook. The term "right hand happy" was invented for the man. But, as others have pointed out, he can come again at 23. I'd be quite happy not to have won an IBO title...

it will benefit him in the long term. He's not gonna strole in like he did and just try to blast the guy out without much thought. He needs rounds...Delaney would be a good choice of opponent, then i wouldn't mind seeing him in with Thompson again...he cant wait too long, cos as much as Thompson keeps proving us all wrong, he will be beaten.

Once Haye has done some rounds, he'll have more appreciation of what he can and can not do in each round. If he played to his strengths, he should beat Thompson without much trouble...as we first expected.

I think Delaney would be a good choice right now. However, Haye could still get beaten down again by Thompson after that fight. The question is, where is Thompson going to go next?

I must try and get hold of Dennis Hobson and see what the next move is likely to be for Thompson....wonder who he fancies next....anyone here spoken to him at all?

I think he is long overdue a rematch with Nelson.

That is my suspicion. Could be a big fight too. What about Nelson v Macaranelli in another young blood versus old veteran bout, with the winner taking on Thompson?

I'd pick Nelson over Macaranelli, though I think it would be tougher, Macaranelli has already bounced back from defeat and has had some tough fights.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:That is my suspicion. Could be a big fight too. What about Nelson v Macaranelli in another young blood versus old veteran bout, with the winner taking on Thompson?

I'd pick Nelson over Macaranelli, though I think it would be tougher, Macaranelli has already bounced back from defeat and has had some tough fights.

Thompson already said last week he will never get in the ring with Macarinelli as he disrespected him saying he was reporting Haye to age concern. I think I'd honestly back Macarinelli to beat Carl if it ever did happen.

Never say never, I would have thought the fact that he dissed him was all the more reason to fight him. I think Nelson is the man Carl really wants.