BoxRec

for Poland it's Michalczewski or Adamek
though i consider Golota the most talented while Glowacki vs Huck as the best win in Polish boxing

dagilechia wrote: ↑21 Jan 2018, 08:46 for Poland it's Michalczewski or Adamek
though i consider Golota the most talented while Glowacki vs Huck as the best win in Polish boxing

If Golota had Adamek's mentality, how far would he go in you opinion?

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑21 Jan 2018, 09:11

dagilechia wrote: ↑21 Jan 2018, 08:46 for Poland it's Michalczewski or Adamek
though i consider Golota the most talented while Glowacki vs Huck as the best win in Polish boxing

If Golota had Adamek's mentality, how far would he go in you opinion?

i could see him beating Bowe (obviously), Wlad K, post-prime Tyson (he did well in his Tyson fight despite the knockdown, but prime Tyson obviously wins by KO), while i think he could never beat Lewis and he vs Vitali could be a 50/50 fight, i think he rather loses to Holyfield but i give him respectable chances

even with his poor mentality he was capable of beating Bowe, undefeated Grant (but we know how these fights ended up), post-prime Golota after car crash with his left hand not as good as before anymore in my opinion won world title fight twice (against Byrd and Ruiz)

he was a good all-round boxer, with very decent jab, and he was not as chinny as some think, quick kos over him were rather effect of hist psychique rather than chin (and in Lewis fight, also effect of his body reaction to lidocaine injection, after the fight he lost consciousness and collapsed)

so i believe if he had Adamek mentality he could be mentioned today together with the names of the likes of Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Klitschkos, i believe he had respectable underdog chances against most of them while very likely he would lost to most of the fighters mentioned above

his mentality was poor, i guess his mafia issues didnt helped it either, it could be even worse if not his wife which seems to be a very good woman

his amateur record was 99-13-2, 1988 olympics bronze medal, 4x champion of Poland, 1989 Europe bronze medal, 1985 junior world championship silver medal, in final he lost to Felix Savon

Trinidad was not the best from Puerto Rico. Gomez and Benitez were better.

dagilechia wrote: ↑21 Jan 2018, 09:36

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑21 Jan 2018, 09:11

dagilechia wrote: ↑21 Jan 2018, 08:46 for Poland it's Michalczewski or Adamek
though i consider Golota the most talented while Glowacki vs Huck as the best win in Polish boxing

If Golota had Adamek's mentality, how far would he go in you opinion?

i could see him beating Bowe (obviously), Wlad K, post-prime Tyson (he did well in his Tyson fight despite the knockdown, but prime Tyson obviously wins by KO), while i think he could never beat Lewis and he vs Vitali could be a 50/50 fight, i think he rather loses to Holyfield but i give him respectable chances

even with his poor mentality he was capable of beating Bowe, undefeated Grant (but we know how these fights ended up), post-prime Golota after car crash with his left hand not as good as before anymore in my opinion won world title fight twice (against Byrd and Ruiz)

he was a good all-round boxer, with very decent jab, and he was not as chinny as some think, quick kos over him were rather effect of hist psychique rather than chin (and in Lewis fight, also effect of his body reaction to lidocaine injection, after the fight he lost consciousness and collapsed)

so i believe if he had Adamek mentality he could be mentioned today together with the names of the likes of Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Klitschkos, i believe he had respectable underdog chances against most of them while very likely he would lost to most of the fighters mentioned above

his mentality was poor, i guess his mafia issues didnt helped it either, it could be even worse if not his wife which seems to be a very good woman

his amateur record was 99-13-2, 1988 olympics bronze medal, 4x champion of Poland, 1989 Europe bronze medal, 1985 junior world championship silver medal, in final he lost to Felix Savon

Good post!

I think Golota was very talented, had good all-around skills and good size. He had a good jab, could throw good combinations. I think he was much more talented than Mavrovic, who lasted the full distance against the same version of Lewis that destroyed Golota in 95 seconds, or Meehan, who lasted the full distance against the same version of Brewster that demolished Golota in 52 seconds.

I think mentality was the weakest part in Golota's game, but he also was a very slow starter. If his opponent started the fight aggressively, Golota was often caught cold and had no answer. Thus I think any version of Golota would be blown out against Corrie Sanders, who was a very fast starter. If prime iron-chinned Vitali was really hurt in the first round against 38-years-old out-of-shape Sanders, I can't see Golota lasting long against Corrie. Shannon Briggs would be also very dangerous for Golota in early rounds, altough he didn't have Sanders' handspeed and precision. If the fight goes past round 3, I can see Golota battering Briggs and winning the fight either by wide UD or late TKO. But I believe that Golota would have had very good chances of beating Rahman, Maskaev, Liakhovich and Valuev each of whom was a slow starter.

I think he beat Ruiz in a close fight and I scored his fight against Byrd 114-114. I also think that Golota shouldn't have had a 'warm-up' fight against Ray Austin when his fight against Valuev was scheduled for December 20, 2008. It turned out to be a really, really bad idea.

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑21 Jan 2018, 17:16

dagilechia wrote: ↑21 Jan 2018, 09:36

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑21 Jan 2018, 09:11

If Golota had Adamek's mentality, how far would he go in you opinion?

i could see him beating Bowe (obviously), Wlad K, post-prime Tyson (he did well in his Tyson fight despite the knockdown, but prime Tyson obviously wins by KO), while i think he could never beat Lewis and he vs Vitali could be a 50/50 fight, i think he rather loses to Holyfield but i give him respectable chances

even with his poor mentality he was capable of beating Bowe, undefeated Grant (but we know how these fights ended up), post-prime Golota after car crash with his left hand not as good as before anymore in my opinion won world title fight twice (against Byrd and Ruiz)

he was a good all-round boxer, with very decent jab, and he was not as chinny as some think, quick kos over him were rather effect of hist psychique rather than chin (and in Lewis fight, also effect of his body reaction to lidocaine injection, after the fight he lost consciousness and collapsed)

so i believe if he had Adamek mentality he could be mentioned today together with the names of the likes of Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Klitschkos, i believe he had respectable underdog chances against most of them while very likely he would lost to most of the fighters mentioned above

his mentality was poor, i guess his mafia issues didnt helped it either, it could be even worse if not his wife which seems to be a very good woman

his amateur record was 99-13-2, 1988 olympics bronze medal, 4x champion of Poland, 1989 Europe bronze medal, 1985 junior world championship silver medal, in final he lost to Felix Savon

Good post!

I think Golota was very talented, had good all-around skills and good size. He had a good jab, could throw good combinations. I think he was much more talented than Mavrovic, who lasted the full distance against the same version of Lewis that destroyed Golota in 95 seconds, or Meehan, who lasted the full distance against the same version of Brewster that demolished Golota in 52 seconds.

I think mentality was the weakest part in Golota's game, but he also was a very slow starter. If his opponent started the fight aggressively, Golota was often caught cold and had no answer. Thus I think any version of Golota would be blown out against Corrie Sanders, who was a very fast starter. If prime iron-chinned Vitali was really hurt in the first round against 38-years-old out-of-shape Sanders, I can't see Golota lasting long against Corrie. Shannon Briggs would be also very dangerous for Golota in early rounds, altough he didn't have Sanders' handspeed and precision. If the fight goes past round 3, I can see Golota battering Briggs and winning the fight either by wide UD or late TKO. But I believe that Golota would have had very good chances of beating Rahman, Maskaev, Liakhovich and Valuev each of whom was a slow starter.

I think he beat Ruiz in a close fight and I scored his fight against Byrd 114-114. I also think that Golota shouldn't have had a 'warm-up' fight against Ray Austin when his fight against Valuev was scheduled for December 20, 2008. It turned out to be a really, really bad idea.

yeah Corrie Sanders stylistically would be a bad match-up for Golota, if we compare him with current fighters i think Wilder if fights agresively like vs Stiverne 2 could finish him, but if Wilder fights like vs Szpilka then probably Andrew could win. if i had to bet i think Joshua beats him, but it could be a decent fight, as well as his fight vs Povetkin 2.0.

it is said that he always had mental problems, in school he was bullied despite the fact he was physically stronger guy, but he feared to punch. he was the man in Poland back then, there is a joke that most of Polish men woked up less times to care their childs when they were crying at night than for Golota fights, it was kind of man's social activity, despite the fact his fight were usually like at 4 or 5 am, i remember when me my father and my uncle poured first shots of vodka and then turned on tv to see Golota vs Brewster but the fight was already finished before we even taked first vodka shots so instead we started to talk about Golota mentality and Bowe fights all night while getting more and more drunk Golota was a topic of a lot of drunk talks at the time. there are even songs about him, he is seen as the most popular sportsman of 90s in Poland, he was no less popular in Poland than lets say Tyson in USA, he was the first Polish pro boxing contender, and Poland was at the time a nation with very good amateur boxing traditions, boxing was very popular at the time, now it's very decreasing, mma and freak fights are becoming more popular. when i attended Glowacki vs Usyk the arena of 12000 seats was not even full, while just some years ago Adamek vs Vitali was attended by about 40000-45000 people.

but despite the fact it was pre-internet era he already had some haters, there was a joke after his Lewis fight that there is no need to wake up for Golota fights, you can just see the whole fight later in sports news. at the time Polish man were saying there are 3 Poles that are well known in the world: John Paul II, Lech Walesa and Golota. literature nobel prize winner Wislawa Szymborska were a big fan of Golota, after her death Golota even wrote a short poem.

Golota after collapse of communism was the first Polish sportsman who had a potential to become the world greatest, and he fought in USA, a country seen as the time as a kind of unreachable heaven for most of Poles
Golota was far more popular than Michalczewski and Adamek, while these 2 are also known by generally everyone, even not interested in boxing. last year one of the Polish newspaper made an online voting for the ''Polish sportsman of the last 25 years'' and Golota won it. his farewell exhibition fight vs Nicholson was broadcasted in public and the most popular tv channel in Poland TVP1.

i miss the times when millions of Polish men at one time were waking up to see a boxing fight, unforgettable moments and you could feel the kind of spirit, because you knew that milions of guys just feel the same thing as you right now, whether its your next door neighbor, or a man that lives in a city in totally different region of the country, if it's an 80 years old man, or young student, most of men at the time were united and watching Golota fights

his farewell exibition match is estimated that had 1,6 million viewers, i guess Wilder in his WBC title fights never had such attendance, despite the fact USA has 10x bigger population

i feel like USA and Poland are the nations that are swithcing to mma more than any other nations. we lack another Golota, USA lacks new Tyson/Ali, UK has Joshua and there boxing rules, i want boxing to be as popular as in UK in countries like USA and Poland once again too

Jeff Fenech for Australia, rather than Tszyu.
Chris John - Indonesia
Thomas Americo - Timor-Leste

As for Bob Fitzsimmons and England - New Zealand and even Australia have claims on him every bit as strong as the Old Dart.

golden oldie wrote: ↑21 Jan 2018, 16:51

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Jan 2018, 22:07

golden oldie wrote: ↑13 Jan 2018, 18:06

Lennox Lewis is the best heavyweight boxer that ever come out of England. But, pound per pound, cannot match the great Bob Fitzsimmons' accomplishments. Fitzsimmons to me, is a top 15 pound per pound ATG. I don't see Lewis so far in the top 100 pound per pound list.

The best of England so far:
1. Bob Fitzsimmons
2. Jack "Kid" Berg
3. Ted "Kid" Lewis
4. Lennox Lewis

People criticise Lewis for living in Canada from the age of 12, until he turned pro IN ENGLAND after the 1988 olympics, aged 23. His pro career was based in England and he at least fought there 17 times, whilst living in the country.

Bob Fitz on the other left England at the age of ten NEVER to return, much less fight there.

Fitzsimmons was born in England. I have never seen claims of his part as Australian.

We need to organize this into an official map to replace the one posted, it s a weak map.

BTW - Italy: Nino Benvenuti ; St. Croix Livingstone Bramble

elmersalsa wrote: ↑22 Jan 2018, 14:54

golden oldie wrote: ↑21 Jan 2018, 16:51

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Jan 2018, 22:07

Lennox Lewis is the best heavyweight boxer that ever come out of England. But, pound per pound, cannot match the great Bob Fitzsimmons' accomplishments. Fitzsimmons to me, is a top 15 pound per pound ATG. I don't see Lewis so far in the top 100 pound per pound list.

The best of England so far:
1. Bob Fitzsimmons
2. Jack "Kid" Berg
3. Ted "Kid" Lewis
4. Lennox Lewis

People criticise Lewis for living in Canada from the age of 12, until he turned pro IN ENGLAND after the 1988 olympics, aged 23. His pro career was based in England and he at least fought there 17 times, whilst living in the country.

Bob Fitz on the other left England at the age of ten NEVER to return, much less fight there.

Fitzsimmons was born in England. I have never seen claims of his part as Australian.

elmer if you have heard of Fitz being from Australia, I recommend you read more about him.

I am putting together my own map based on this discussion. Does anyone have an opinion on Puerto Rico: Who do you think best represents Puerto Rico - Trinidad, Camacho, or Rosario, or . . .?

The Fenech - Tszyu, for Australia is a difficult one too.

APerno wrote: ↑22 Jan 2018, 23:29 I am putting together my own map based on this discussion. Does anyone have an opinion on Puerto Rico: Who do you think best represents Puerto Rico - Trinidad, Camacho, or Rosario, or . . .?

Wilfredo Gomez

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Jan 2018, 14:29 Lennox Lewis is not England's best. It is the great Bob Fitzsimmons.
Joe Calzaghe is not Wales' best. It is the great Jimmy Wilde.
Steve Collins is not Ireland's best. It is the great Jimmy McLarnin
You want Ken Buchanan go to your house and kill you? Willie Limond? WTF! The great Benny Lynch is Scotland's greatest boxer ever.

I agree with you about Wales. Wilde was Britains greatest ever boxer, not just Wales.

But I disagree about Ireland & England. I know they were both born in each country but they left as kids & , to the best of my knowledge, didn't fight in either Ireland or England. I feel it's a bit much having them represent a country they never properly knew.

Scotland I would go with Buchanan but not arguing with anyone who says Lynch.

APerno wrote: ↑22 Jan 2018, 23:31 The Fenech - Tszyu, for Australia is a difficult one too.

It's Young Griffo

Taansend wrote: ↑23 Jan 2018, 11:23

APerno wrote: ↑22 Jan 2018, 23:31 The Fenech - Tszyu, for Australia is a difficult one too.

It's Young Griffo

Interesting, certainly great - thanks for the education - the guy was the master of the 'draw' - Drew with George Dixon three times and twice with Joe Gans. He did succumb to Gans their last time out. TKO 8/25

I can't find in his record another name (my limited knowledge) recognizes. You feel he is more accomplished than Fenech? Certainly fighting 55 rounds (to three draws) with Dixon is very impressive.

APerno wrote: ↑23 Jan 2018, 13:41

Taansend wrote: ↑23 Jan 2018, 11:23

APerno wrote: ↑22 Jan 2018, 23:31 The Fenech - Tszyu, for Australia is a difficult one too.

It's Young Griffo

Interesting, certainly great - thanks for the education - the guy was the master of the 'draw' - Drew with George Dixon three times and twice with Joe Gans. He did succumb to Gans their last time out. TKO 8/25

I can't find in his record another name (my limited knowledge) recognizes. You feel he is more accomplished than Fenech? Certainly fighting 55 rounds (to three draws) with Dixon is very impressive.

I can't decide between Fenech Tszyu so picked Griffo as his story always intrigued me

Taansend wrote: ↑23 Jan 2018, 13:43

APerno wrote: ↑23 Jan 2018, 13:41

Taansend wrote: ↑23 Jan 2018, 11:23

It's Young Griffo

Interesting, certainly great - thanks for the education - the guy was the master of the 'draw' - Drew with George Dixon three times and twice with Joe Gans. He did succumb to Gans their last time out. TKO 8/25

I can't find in his record another name (my limited knowledge) recognizes. You feel he is more accomplished than Fenech? Certainly fighting 55 rounds (to three draws) with Dixon is very impressive.

I can't decide between Fenech Tszyu so picked Griffo as his story always intrigued me

Shouldn't Tszyu be considered a Russian? He did fight his amateur career as a Soviet (I think).

considering Kostya Tsyzu an Australian fighter is like considering Dariusz Michalczewski an German fighter

they were fighting and living in these countries because of situation in their own countries, in post-communist states pro boxing and big money just not existed at the time, to make a career they had to move, thats it
Tsyzu is a trainer of some Russian boxers so i bet he lives in Russia now

Verno Phillips, Belize.

dagilechia wrote: ↑24 Jan 2018, 04:24 considering Kostya Tsyzu an Australian fighter is like considering Dariusz Michalczewski an German fighter

they were fighting and living in these countries because of situation in their own countries, in post-communist states pro boxing and big money just not existed at the time, to make a career they had to move, thats it
Tsyzu is a trainer of some Russian boxers so i bet he lives in Russia now

Yes, Kostya is back in Russia now - although his son Tim remains in Australia and is 7-0 (against fairly limited opponents).

MikeInOz wrote: ↑22 Jan 2018, 09:04 Jeff Fenech for Australia, rather than Tszyu.
Chris John - Indonesia
Thomas Americo - Timor-Leste

As for Bob Fitzsimmons and England - New Zealand and even Australia have claims on him every bit as strong as the Old Dart.

Cant have been a NZer. Because anything good from NZ is usually claimed by Australia as their own

And I think Lionel Rose, Johnny Famechon and even Jimmy Carruthers have a good claim to being our best

bollocks wrote: ↑28 Jan 2018, 05:47 And I think Lionel Rose, Johnny Famechon and even Jimmy Carruthers have a good claim to being our best

Great company. I think the best fighter from Australia was Les Darcy.

bollocks wrote: ↑28 Jan 2018, 05:46
Cant have been a NZer. Because anything good from NZ is usually claimed by Australia as their own

That's an outrageous smear. When has Australia ever done that, apart from with Phar Lap, Russell Crowe, Split Enz, lamingtons, Rob Whittaker, Rebecca Gibney, James Tamou, Keith Urban, Jane Campion, James Te Huna, Dragon, Jenny Morris, John Clarke and pavlova?