BoxRec

That was unbelievable wasn't it? I will never forget it either. Tate was that close to winning and then the roof fell in.
It was great to see a guy like Weaver (who did not have it easy coming up) win the title like that.
Tate never really recovered from that.
In a way the loser was Larry Holmes. They were starting to hype up a Holmes-Tate showdown. The title would have been unified, at least until the WBA would come up with away to strip it from Holmes.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑17 Jan 2018, 16:31 That was unbelievable wasn't it? I will never forget it either. Tate was that close to winning and then the roof fell in.
It was great to see a guy like Weaver (who did not have it easy coming up) win the title like that.
Tate never really recovered from that.
In a way the loser was Larry Holmes. They were starting to hype up a Holmes-Tate showdown. The title would have been unified, at least until the WBA would come up with away to strip it from Holmes.

So you wouldn't give John a chance against Larry?

I knew Weaver was going to get him.... He thought Tate was a little soft and he could KO him in the late rounds...

Mike said he trained really well and was in the strongest and best shape of his life... He thought Tate looked fat in the Coetzee fight... He thought Tate was relaxing a little bit and looking for an easy opponent for his first Title Defense... His game plan all along was to play a bit of chess - make Tate throw... get him tired... and then knock him out late.

Weaver had a lot of losses and that can fool people... He gave Holmes Hell before he got knocked out... Holmes even said something along the lines of, "Tate can't go to sleep on this kid Weaver. He's real strong. He can hit like Hell and he's hard to hurt. You could be looking at an upset here."

I was going to go to the fight, but I couldn't get the time off I wanted... I decided to watch it at a sports bar with some buds.. People were betting with each other in the bar - mostly pitcher of beer and large pizzas vs plates of buffalo wings and fries type bets... Weaver was fairly local to the LA area... A lot of people knew him... Weaver bettors were shouting "Burn him Mike, burn him." People betting on Tate were yelling, "Hold on Big John." It looked like Mike would get him out, especially in the 12th and all the late rounds, but he was attacking sporadically. I wanted him to turn up the pressure a lot earlier, but I said "He'll get him in the 15th." I almost got the feeling he blew it .... but he finally executed a perfect ice job, "The Finisher"

Tate was wrecked mentally, emotionally, and physically... He was nothing after Weaver disposed of him.

Nile4000 wrote: ↑17 Jan 2018, 16:55

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑17 Jan 2018, 16:31 That was unbelievable wasn't it? I will never forget it either. Tate was that close to winning and then the roof fell in.
It was great to see a guy like Weaver (who did not have it easy coming up) win the title like that.
Tate never really recovered from that.
In a way the loser was Larry Holmes. They were starting to hype up a Holmes-Tate showdown. The title would have been unified, at least until the WBA would come up with away to strip it from Holmes.

So you wouldn't give John a chance against Larry?

Not much. Holmes was too good for him. However, he probably would have been more competitive than most of the guys that Holmes beat.

There was nothing in Tate's career that demonstrated he would be able to hang with Holmes.

Holmes was simply better in every way. And that was my opinion before the Weaver and Berbick bouts.

Tate's chin, his stamina and his confidence under adversity were all very questionable.

Holmes would have had Tate out of there by the 10th round of a one sided fight.

Holmes was a true master.... I loved his Title Fight with Oliver McCall at 45... Holmes was older and fatter with slowed reflexes -- but his skills and timing were still intact... The youngster couldn't get a damaging blow on him.

The 12th round.
Then in the 14th the low blow. I don’t fault Weaver for that. There was no way he was going to win on the cards - so so what if you drop another round on them.

Maybe that saps 45 seconds worth of energy

Then your manager matches you against a dirty mauler less than 90 days later in the city you lost the gold medal in when you were 20 and in against Stevenson.

A couple years later you’re homeless and little Knoxville kids are throwing trash at you.

I feel for John Tate, I really do.

Contendeh wrote: ↑18 Jan 2018, 23:05
Then your manager matches [Tate] against a dirty mauler less than 90 days later

I don't understand that... That was one of the worse ice jobs I've ever seen in my life... Pacquiao took a year off when he fell senseless on his face... Tate looked much worse than Pac did -- he wiggled like chocolate pudding being plopped out of the mold... He was knocked so senseless it was scary... There wasn't a nerve in his body that wasn't out... He made a lot of money in his Coetzee and Weaver fights... He could afford taking a good long break because he was good financially.

The rule back then was you don't let a kid even spar for 90 days after being knocked out... This was 1980 not 1934.... They know a lot more today about brain trauma -- but by the 1980's we were starting to understand why fighters became punch drunk, or stated to lose their motor skills and coordination... One of the markers was guys who had been knocked out, being knocked out again within a few months... That told us that the brain takes longer to heal than we thought.

I remember young boxers complaining of headaches -- but they think they're going to be fine in a few days and don't have to stop training or sparring... It's really tough because good athletes are super competitive... If you send them home are they even going to tell you next time they have a headache? ... You don't risk your health for ring glory. It doesn't work like that... It takes an education... If they know something about the day-to-day lives of people who suffer they listen.

Make me want to watch the Mike Weaver vs Big John Tate to admire how Weaver nearly pull a Rocky II ending.

Kalan wrote: ↑19 Jan 2018, 02:50

I don't understand that... That was one of the worse ice jobs I've ever seen in my life...

Good post. Both Mannys did it right. Steward, with Lennox, how he took him back and turned him into a better fighter and mature Paq after Marquez.

Caractacus wrote: ↑13 Jan 2018, 17:30 Also there was pressure from Jess Jackson and PUSH for Mike Weaver not to go
to South Africa and fight Gerry Cooney.

The original scheduled date for Mike Weaver vrs James Tillis was February.28.1981 in Las Vegas,
but Weaver hurt his hand in training (ligament tear),so fight was postponed until October 1981.

Mike Weaver was also scheduled to defend the WBO title against Tex Cobb on June.2.1982,
but Mike Weaver injured his shoulder in trainingg and fight postponed then cancelled
when a group of thugs (some 25-30)attacked Tex Cobb in a Philadelphia bar room and broke his arm with a tire-iron or a baseball bat
(or maybe with both).

I think you meant Gerrie Coetzee, not Gerry Cooney.

Contendeh wrote: ↑18 Jan 2018, 23:05 The 12th round.
Then in the 14th the low blow. I don’t fault Weaver for that. There was no way he was going to win on the cards - so so what if you drop another round on them.

Maybe that saps 45 seconds worth of energy

Then your manager matches you against a dirty mauler less than 90 days later in the city you lost the gold medal in when you were 20 and in against Stevenson.

A couple years later you’re homeless and little Knoxville kids are throwing trash at you.

I feel for John Tate, I really do.

Same here. He could have possibly held that belt for a year. Seemed like a good dude. Him and Cooney could have been a good fight.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑19 Jan 2018, 15:44

Caractacus wrote: ↑13 Jan 2018, 17:30 Also there was pressure from Jess Jackson and PUSH for Mike Weaver not to go
to South Africa and fight Gerry Cooney.

The original scheduled date for Mike Weaver vrs James Tillis was February.28.1981 in Las Vegas,
but Weaver hurt his hand in training (ligament tear),so fight was postponed until October 1981.

Mike Weaver was also scheduled to defend the WBO title against Tex Cobb on June.2.1982,
but Mike Weaver injured his shoulder in trainingg and fight postponed then cancelled
when a group of thugs (some 25-30)attacked Tex Cobb in a Philadelphia bar room and broke his arm with a tire-iron or a baseball bat
(or maybe with both).

I think you meant Gerrie Coetzee, not Gerry Cooney.

Sheeyat,yur right, but all them White Folk look alike.

Contendeh wrote: ↑18 Jan 2018, 23:05

Then your manager matches you against a dirty mauler less than 90 days later in the city you lost the gold medal in when you were 20 and in against Stevenson.

A couple years later you’re homeless and little Knoxville kids are throwing trash at you.

I feel for John Tate, I really do.

I read thats what they did also to Britain's "Hardest Man" Charles Bronson.
People sure can be cruel sometimes. or as my HS Home ec teacher used to say to the class,

"Homo homini lupus"

(probably learnt it from their parents)

How do people think a Shavers-Weaver fight would have played out in 1978 or 1979?

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2018, 22:53 How do people think a Shavers-Weaver fight would have played out in 1978 or 1979?

Shavers 3rd round kayo competitive fight.

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2018, 22:53 How do people think a Shavers-Weaver fight would have played out in 1978 or 1979?

One of the hardest punches in history vs one of the slowest starters.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑17 Jan 2018, 12:01 I don't recall my actual scorecard but I imagine I had Tate winning 11 or 12 of the first 14 rounds.

Weaver seemed unable to get off.

It was obvious, however, that Tate suddenly gassed in the 14th.

Probably a combination of Weaver's physical strength and body punching along with some suspect cardio on the part of Tate.

It was a KO that Tate never seemed to recover from.

He was stopped in similar fashion by Berbick in his very next bout.

After that, Tate spent the remainder of his career carefully avoiding name heavyweights. Instead making a living feasting on safe journeyman.

They never should have had him fighting Berbick. Probably better off fighting George Chaplin, or Jumbo Cummings.

I'm sure part of it was that Ace Miller underestimated Berbick. 14 months prior Berbick was iced in one by Bernardo Mercado, whom Tate had already taken out in two (and thread subject Mike Weaver had taken out in five a few months later). Two months later Berbick was held to a draw by 21-19-3 Leroy Caldwell.

At that point in time there was nothing in Trevor Berbick's history to indicate that he would be a top contender and belt holder. He probably seemed like a safe, easy comeback opponent in a 'climb back on the horse' sort of way.