BoxRec

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑23 Jan 2018, 18:15

caldo2025 wrote: ↑23 Jan 2018, 18:07 Now i'm not one of those A+B=C so that means C must equal A kinds of guys but did you see the beating that this kid put on Lamont?

Sure, it was impressive, but it's not like it's something Matthyse didn't do year ago is it?

caldo2025 wrote: ↑24 Jan 2018, 21:45 The eye test is all that I need to form an opinion like this. While the rest of you need a resume and punch stats blah blah. What you don’t factor in is that most fighters don’t start getting the big fights until they are at the tail end of their prime. A boxer’s prime is fleeting and a lot smaller a window than you think.

Look at GGG for instance. The guy couldn’t get a fighter to sign a contract until he clearly showed his age catching up to him. P4P is not about resumes. It’s about talent, recent talent. Measure careers with resumes and punch stats all you want but P4P is all about who’s at their the current peak of ability in the sport and a P4P list without Spence Jr at the top or near it is not one I value.

caldo2025 wrote: ↑23 Jan 2018, 16:09 I'm sorry but I really have to question all of your boxing IQ's if you don't see the greatness that this kid is showing. I'm a true believer in having the resume to back the tout but there are some boxers that give you a "holy Shiit" moment when watching them fight and this kid's nickname should be changed to Errol "Holy Shiit" Spence Jr. No one will beat this kid.

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑24 Jan 2018, 22:31

caldo2025 wrote: ↑23 Jan 2018, 16:09 I'm sorry but I really have to question all of your boxing IQ's if you don't see the greatness that this kid is showing. I'm a true believer in having the resume to back the tout but there are some boxers that give you a "holy Shiit" moment when watching them fight and this kid's nickname should be changed to Errol "Holy Shiit" Spence Jr. No one will beat this kid.

You really think Spence is more talented and skilled than Lomachenko?

It wasn't all that long ago Spence was beaten in the Olympics. Loma has 2 gold medals. And Loma's opposition and performances at the professional level are quite a bit more impressive than Spence's. That says a lot seeing as how Loma has less than half the professional fights as Spence.

Don't let your bias cloud your objectivity.

caldo2025 wrote: ↑25 Jan 2018, 08:36

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑24 Jan 2018, 22:31

caldo2025 wrote: ↑23 Jan 2018, 16:09 I'm sorry but I really have to question all of your boxing IQ's if you don't see the greatness that this kid is showing. I'm a true believer in having the resume to back the tout but there are some boxers that give you a "holy Shiit" moment when watching them fight and this kid's nickname should be changed to Errol "Holy Shiit" Spence Jr. No one will beat this kid.

You really think Spence is more talented and skilled than Lomachenko?

It wasn't all that long ago Spence was beaten in the Olympics. Loma has 2 gold medals. And Loma's opposition and performances at the professional level are quite a bit more impressive than Spence's. That says a lot seeing as how Loma has less than half the professional fights as Spence.

Don't let your bias cloud your objectivity.

And it wasn't all that long ago that Loma was defeated in a professional fight so don't you think that is more detrimental to your Loma stance than an amateur loss when Spence was 21 years old? Oh that's right, I forgot that Loma's loss to Salido never happened according to Loma fans. Heck, i'm a Loma fan. He won me over. He's definitely #2 in my P4P list right now and I can appreciate that he's atop most people's lists right now. But Spence belongs high in the top 5 of an intelligent P4P list. I have Spence Jr nudging out Loma for the #1 spot because of the difference in punching power between the two. I feel Loma's punching power is way overrated and Spence hasn't been given his due for how hard he throws leather.

When it's all said and done, Spence Jr. is going to end up posting a ridiculous KO percentage for a 147 pounder. No one has been able to make it out of a 12 round fight with him yet..can't say that Loma fans. But the great thing about both Loma and Spence Jr is that as their opposition gets tougher, each has overachieved. Loma perhaps more so and that's why i won't argue with anyone with Loma #1 but to not put Spence near the top is illogical to me.

caldo2025 wrote: ↑24 Jan 2018, 21:45 The eye test is all that I need to form an opinion like this.

caldo2025 wrote: ↑24 Jan 2018, 21:45 The eye test is all that I need to form an opinion like this. While the rest of you need a resume and punch stats blah blah. What you don’t factor in is that most fighters don’t start getting the big fights until they are at the tail end of their prime. A boxer’s prime is fleeting and a lot smaller a window than you think.

Look at GGG for instance. The guy couldn’t get a fighter to sign a contract until he clearly showed his age catching up to him. P4P is not about resumes. It’s about talent, recent talent. Measure careers with resumes and punch stats all you want but P4P is all about who’s at their the current peak of ability in the sport and a P4P list without Spence Jr at the top or near it is not one I value.

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑25 Jan 2018, 11:40

caldo2025 wrote: ↑24 Jan 2018, 21:45 The eye test is all that I need to form an opinion like this.

caldo's little double standards are so cute

*after a Lomachenko win*
some poster: Lomachenko is da best eva, P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4!!!!!

FURIOUS CALDO
'he hasn't earned it, who's he fought, this kid's done nothing in the pro game blah blah blah'

Spence hands a man who is, at best, in the very bottom reaches of the welterweight top 10, his like 5th loss

EXCITED CALDO
'P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P SPENCE IS DA BEST

I wish there was a 'pat on the head' smiley thing I could use, just to signify how cute I find caldo sometimes.

VG_Addict wrote: ↑25 Jan 2018, 13:23 Spence isn't even top 10 P4P yet.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑25 Jan 2018, 13:39 I would put it in #2-4 together with Crawford and GGG with Loma being #1.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑25 Jan 2018, 13:25

VG_Addict wrote: ↑25 Jan 2018, 13:23 Spence isn't even top 10 P4P yet.

I disagree. I have him on the low end of the Top 10.

#9 to be exact.

I do think some are overshooting it when they put him in the Top 3 already though definitely.

If you insist that he absolutely doesn't belong in the Top 10 then who do you have over him?

VG_Addict wrote: ↑25 Jan 2018, 14:21

gilgamesh wrote: ↑25 Jan 2018, 13:25

VG_Addict wrote: ↑25 Jan 2018, 13:23 Spence isn't even top 10 P4P yet.

I disagree. I have him on the low end of the Top 10.

#9 to be exact.

I do think some are overshooting it when they put him in the Top 3 already though definitely.

If you insist that he absolutely doesn't belong in the Top 10 then who do you have over him?

I don't have a list, but I'd put Crawford, Golovkin, Lomachenko, Canelo and Mikey Garcia above him for sure.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑25 Jan 2018, 14:56 Boys, boys. Why the need for arguing in circles?

Spence is a hellavu fighter. Everyone here seems to concur.

Is it really so important whether he's deserving of #1 P4P honors or if he hasn't even done enough to merit top 10 consideration?

His future performances will eventually shine light on his talents and settle all the disagreements. Maybe.

Where he Is today on anybody's list, is after all irrelevant . It's how you evolve and finish that defines your legacy, not how you start.

All questions will be answered. Have patience. Only time will reveal The Truth.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑25 Jan 2018, 10:12

caldo2025 wrote: ↑25 Jan 2018, 08:36

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑24 Jan 2018, 22:31
You really think Spence is more talented and skilled than Lomachenko?

It wasn't all that long ago Spence was beaten in the Olympics. Loma has 2 gold medals. And Loma's opposition and performances at the professional level are quite a bit more impressive than Spence's. That says a lot seeing as how Loma has less than half the professional fights as Spence.

Don't let your bias cloud your objectivity.

And it wasn't all that long ago that Loma was defeated in a professional fight so don't you think that is more detrimental to your Loma stance than an amateur loss when Spence was 21 years old? Oh that's right, I forgot that Loma's loss to Salido never happened according to Loma fans. Heck, i'm a Loma fan. He won me over. He's definitely #2 in my P4P list right now and I can appreciate that he's atop most people's lists right now. But Spence belongs high in the top 5 of an intelligent P4P list. I have Spence Jr nudging out Loma for the #1 spot because of the difference in punching power between the two. I feel Loma's punching power is way overrated and Spence hasn't been given his due for how hard he throws leather.

When it's all said and done, Spence Jr. is going to end up posting a ridiculous KO percentage for a 147 pounder. No one has been able to make it out of a 12 round fight with him yet..can't say that Loma fans. But the great thing about both Loma and Spence Jr is that as their opposition gets tougher, each has overachieved. Loma perhaps more so and that's why i won't argue with anyone with Loma #1 but to not put Spence near the top is illogical to me.

Imagine Spence in his second pro fight facing Porter who would be 10 pounds heavier in the ring and would be allowed all kinds of fouls including low blows. Are you sure Spence would win?

gilgamesh wrote: ↑25 Jan 2018, 14:59

SenorPipino wrote: ↑25 Jan 2018, 14:56 Boys, boys. Why the need for arguing in circles?

Spence is a hellavu fighter. Everyone here seems to concur.

Is it really so important whether he's deserving of #1 P4P honors or if he hasn't even done enough to merit top 10 consideration?

His future performances will eventually shine light on his talents and settle all the disagreements. Maybe.

Where he Is today on anybody's list, is after all irrelevant . It's how you evolve and finish that defines your legacy, not how you start.

All questions will be answered. Have patience. Only time will reveal The Truth.

That's pretty much what I've been saying

My comments have been quite cordial

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑25 Jan 2018, 11:40

caldo2025 wrote: ↑24 Jan 2018, 21:45 The eye test is all that I need to form an opinion like this.

caldo's little double standards are so cute

*after a Lomachenko win*
some poster: Lomachenko is da best eva, P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4!!!!!

FURIOUS CALDO
'he hasn't earned it, who's he fought, this kid's done nothing in the pro game blah blah blah'

Spence hands a man who is, at best, in the very bottom reaches of the welterweight top 10, his like 5th loss

EXCITED CALDO
'P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P SPENCE IS DA BEST

I wish there was a 'pat on the head' smiley thing I could use, just to signify how cute I find caldo sometimes.

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑25 Jan 2018, 11:40

caldo2025 wrote: ↑24 Jan 2018, 21:45 The eye test is all that I need to form an opinion like this.

caldo's little double standards are so cute

*after a Lomachenko win*
some poster: Lomachenko is da best eva, P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4!!!!!

FURIOUS CALDO
'he hasn't earned it, who's he fought, this kid's done nothing in the pro game blah blah blah'

Spence hands a man who is, at best, in the very bottom reaches of the welterweight top 10, his like 5th loss

EXCITED CALDO
'P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P SPENCE IS DA BEST

I wish there was a 'pat on the head' smiley thing I could use, just to signify how cute I find caldo sometimes.

caldo2025 wrote: ↑25 Jan 2018, 21:12

gilgamesh wrote: ↑25 Jan 2018, 14:59

SenorPipino wrote: ↑25 Jan 2018, 14:56 Boys, boys. Why the need for arguing in circles?

Spence is a hellavu fighter. Everyone here seems to concur.

Is it really so important whether he's deserving of #1 P4P honors or if he hasn't even done enough to merit top 10 consideration?

His future performances will eventually shine light on his talents and settle all the disagreements. Maybe.

Where he Is today on anybody's list, is after all irrelevant . It's how you evolve and finish that defines your legacy, not how you start.

All questions will be answered. Have patience. Only time will reveal The Truth.

That's pretty much what I've been saying

My comments have been quite cordial

I hate when someone sensibly stops a brewing fight. How dare you