GILBERTO RAMIREZ WANTS WBSS TOURNEY WINNER NEXT...

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Wrong. Jesse Hart was NOT asked & is a far cry better than sorry Cox or even Yildirim!!

Maybe Hart wasn't asked, but the others definitely were. Cox, Yildirim and Brant wouldn't have been there had Ramirez, either of the Dirrells and Benavidez signed up. It's a weak tournament at 168, because those US based fighters allowed it to be.

I get politics, but you can't really moan about Euro bias, when most of the US fighters refused the invite to the party...

Ramirez WAS invited but Benavidez (and aforementioned Hart) was not. The Dirrells are well-documented snowflakes so their refused invitations are no surprise.

I will actually take it a step further and say there is not only a pro-Euro bias, but a pro-British bias at 168. You'll never convince me that putting a little-known British prospect like Zack Parker as a potential substitute was done for any reason other than to GUARANTEE at least one British fighter in the WBSS Super Middle Championship bout:

https://fightnetwork.com/news/6642611:z ... ournament/

Undefeated British super-middleweight Zach Parker (14-0, 10 KOs) has been confirmed as the reserve for the blockbuster World Boxing Super Series semi-final between domestic rivals George Groves and Chris Eubank Jr. on February 17 at the Manchester Arena.

Parker, who was recently announced as the mandatory challenger for Rocky Fielding’s British Super Middleweight title, will be on standby to enter the tournament in the unlikely scenario of one of the original participants being unable to continue.

It's NO coincidence that WBSS just happened to choose a Brit to fill in should one of the other Brits come up injured in training.

How do you explain Rob Brant then? Totally unknown American, brings no money with him, plenty of European (even a couple of British) fighters ranked higher than him.

If it's all so biased, why did he get asked? What put him higher up the list than those who claim they "weren't asked".

I'm calling BS. They were asked, but they haven't got the balls to admit they didn't fancy it. Much easier routes to belts/unifications available for them. Ramirez just wants to sit around then fight the winner, Hart was mandatory to Ramirez so why go the WBSS route, Anthony Dirrell was just hoping the WBC would elevate his status without the need for a fight, then got injured when they said he did have to fight afterall - Benavidez, and Benavidez has a shot for a vacant belt once Smith got fed up with the Dirrells and went for the WBSS instead. Andre is just Andre. If justice is done, Uzcategui will KO him for real next time out.

I don't believe for one second that Rob Brant was asked, but any of those others were not - especially considering the money a US audience would bring to the tournament. No way Sauerland would deliberately refuse the chance to make more money...

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Ramirez will lose as soon as he steps it up. Bob Arum this is a scam

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Ramirez will lose as soon as he steps it up. Bob Arum this is a scam

Awful title defence aside, which fighter at 168 is clearly better than him?

The days of Ward, Froch and Kessler are long gone. 168 is one of the worst divisions in boxing, which Ramirez is lucky to be part of. He might not be great, but nobody else is either.

DeGale - Just lost to Truax. Might be finished at the top level.
Groves - Lost every time he's faced top opposition at world level. Had to go to war to beat Chudinov.
Smith - Unproven. Didn't look convincing against Skoglund.
Eubank Jr - Unproven. Also beat Abraham, but had to work harder than Ramirez did against the same opposition. Jury still out.
Benavidez - Unproven. Didn't look great against Gavril.

Dirrells, Uzcategui, Zeuge... Who is there?

If he moves up to 175, he gets smashed to bits. At 168 he might just be the best (or near enough to keep winning) of a bad bunch.

[Enlightened-One]

Can somebody please explain the reason why Gilberto Ramirez receives so much hype?

Is it because he’s a former HBO fighter that now competes on ESPN, which led to both The RING and ESPN regarding the Mexican as the top dog at 168lbs (i.e. they have an agenda, such as possessing a commercial bias, to elevate his status in the sport)?

I don’t find anything particularly impressive about his amateur pedigree, the calibre of his opposition, the nature of his victories, his accomplishments or his fighting style. I’m not saying he’s rubbish – it’s just that I don’t get it.

I am willing to be proven wrong about this if someone can please explain the reason why Ramirez deserves to receive so much praise from the media?

I like to learn and would appreciate someone addressing my knowledge gaps about this man.

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I think he was just put at the top by default, after countless other fighters at super middle retired, moved up, or came up short when they upped their own level of competition.

He isn't special. Problem is, nobody at 168 looks special. Not DeGale anymore, not Groves, not Smith, not Benavidez, not Eubank (yet), not the Dirrells...

He's beat Abraham easier than anyone else has, and he hasn't slipped up yet. That's it, but it's arguably still very slightly more than any of the others have proven.

We'll see if the WBSS shows us anything new...

[Enlightened-One]

I think he was just put at the top by default, after countless other fighters at super middle retired, moved up, or came up short when they upped their own level of competition.

He isn't special. Problem is, nobody at 168 looks special. Not DeGale anymore, not Groves, not Smith, not Benavidez, not Eubank (yet), not the Dirrells...

He's beat Abraham easier than anyone else has, and he hasn't slipped up yet. That's it, but it's arguably still very slightly more than any of the others have proven.

We'll see if the WBSS shows us anything new...

Gilberto Ramirez entered The RING’s top-ten 168lbs ratings as early as July 2014, above the likes of Andre Dirrell (even though the American had previously dominated Arthur Abraham), despite the Mexican not having any recognisable names listed on his resume.

For all I know, you could be right, but I just don’t understand why Ramirez’s reputation has been hyped-up so much and so quickly by the media, because I cannot see any real justification for him to deserve such praise.

[Deleted_Scenes]

I think he was just put at the top by default, after countless other fighters at super middle retired, moved up, or came up short when they upped their own level of competition.

He isn't special. Problem is, nobody at 168 looks special. Not DeGale anymore, not Groves, not Smith, not Benavidez, not Eubank (yet), not the Dirrells...

He's beat Abraham easier than anyone else has, and he hasn't slipped up yet. That's it, but it's arguably still very slightly more than any of the others have proven.

We'll see if the WBSS shows us anything new...

Gilberto Ramirez entered The RING’s top-ten 168lbs ratings as early as July 2014, above the likes of Andre Dirrell (even though the American had previously dominated Arthur Abraham), despite the Mexican not having any recognisable names listed on his resume.

For all I know, you could be right, but I just don’t understand why Ramirez’s reputation has been hyped-up so much and so quickly by the media, because I cannot see any real justification for him to deserve such praise.

I don't have an answer for his rating circa 2014. If I remember rightly, Andre Dirrell was pretty inactive around 2011-14, so that might explain that, but I don't believe there weren't at least 10 who were more deserving of a ranking than Ramirez.

Wasn't Sturm also top 10 rated at 168 at about the same time, despite only having 1 fight at the weight (draw with Stieglitz) and coming off a pretty wide loss to Soliman at 160? Weird stuff.

Then again, it wasn't too long before then that Broner had a p4p rating.

I don't know. He's a big Mexican aligned with a big name promoter. Not many big Mexicans at his level, even just as prospects. I imagine that counts for something.

[Best Coast]

Maybe Hart wasn't asked, but the others definitely were. Cox, Yildirim and Brant wouldn't have been there had Ramirez, either of the Dirrells and Benavidez signed up. It's a weak tournament at 168, because those US based fighters allowed it to be.

I get politics, but you can't really moan about Euro bias, when most of the US fighters refused the invite to the party...

Ramirez WAS invited but Benavidez (and aforementioned Hart) was not. The Dirrells are well-documented snowflakes so their refused invitations are no surprise.

I will actually take it a step further and say there is not only a pro-Euro bias, but a pro-British bias at 168. You'll never convince me that putting a little-known British prospect like Zack Parker as a potential substitute was done for any reason other than to GUARANTEE at least one British fighter in the WBSS Super Middle Championship bout:

https://fightnetwork.com/news/6642611:z ... ournament/

Undefeated British super-middleweight Zach Parker (14-0, 10 KOs) has been confirmed as the reserve for the blockbuster World Boxing Super Series semi-final between domestic rivals George Groves and Chris Eubank Jr. on February 17 at the Manchester Arena.

Parker, who was recently announced as the mandatory challenger for Rocky Fielding’s British Super Middleweight title, will be on standby to enter the tournament in the unlikely scenario of one of the original participants being unable to continue.

It's NO coincidence that WBSS just happened to choose a Brit to fill in should one of the other Brits come up injured in training.

How do you explain Rob Brant then? Totally unknown American, brings no money with him, plenty of European (even a couple of British) fighters ranked higher than him.

If it's all so biased, why did he get asked? What put him higher up the list than those who claim they "weren't asked".

I'm calling BS. They were asked, but they haven't got the balls to admit they didn't fancy it. Much easier routes to belts/unifications available for them. Ramirez just wants to sit around then fight the winner, Hart was mandatory to Ramirez so why go the WBSS route, Anthony Dirrell was just hoping the WBC would elevate his status without the need for a fight, then got injured when they said he did have to fight afterall - Benavidez, and Benavidez has a shot for a vacant belt once Smith got fed up with the Dirrells and went for the WBSS instead. Andre is just Andre. If justice is done, Uzcategui will KO him for real next time out.

I don't believe for one second that Rob Brant was asked, but any of those others were not - especially considering the money a US audience would bring to the tournament. No way Sauerland would deliberately refuse the chance to make more money...

Brant was a no-hoper from the get-go. Not only is his resume pitiful, but Brant has been a MIDDLEWEIGHT from the beginning of his career and had NO BUSINESS fighting at 168!!

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/609170

Sauerland is not the money man behind WBSS, it's Swiss banker Richard Schafer, who parted on very bad terms with Golden Boy Promotions and has pretty much washed his hands of promoting fights in the US. Once Schafer/Sauerland realized they werent going to get anyone who could draw viewers in North America they picked a no-hoper MW named Brant as the "token American".

I guarantee you that Schafer/Sauerland more than made up for any financial losses from lack of North American fighters when they SOLD the final to Saudi Arabia!!

Much like the corrupt Qatar regime bought the 2022 World Cup, Saudi Arabia bought the WBSS cruiser final:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/plot ... vxdg2v7l7w

The Qatari vice-president of Fifa, the governing body of world football, used secret slush funds to make dozens of payments totalling more than $5m to senior football officials to create a groundswell of support for Qatar’s plan to take world football by storm.

This weekend and over the coming weeks this newspaper will expose how Bin Hammam exploited his position at the heart of world football to help to secure from the key members of Fifa’s 24-man ruling committee the votes that Qatar needed to win.

The ONLY difference between the Saudis buying the WBSS & the Qataris buying the 2022 World Cup is that neither the Saudis, Schafer or Sauerland did anything wrong. It's their business & they can sell to whoever they please. The Saudis are just now barely allowing women to even DRIVE in their country, so they need all the good media coverage they can get. This gives them much-needed credibility as a valid player on the world economic stage at a time when much of their country is mired in the 7th century!!.

BTW now that we are guaranteed at least one Brit fighter in the 168-pound final, dont be surprised if it ends up in a British soccer arena with 40-50,000 fans, again helping Schafer/Sauerland recoup any lost American $$$.

[jamamb]

so they just didnt ask hart or benavidez?

[Best Coast]

Ramirez was invited but Hart wasnt and I'm pretty sure Benavidez wasnt either.
http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/2 ... tournament

Arum said the World Boxing Super Series organizers made a play to have Ramirez (36-0, 24 KOs), a 26-year-old southpaw from Mexico, join the tournament when it was being put together last summer.

Arum was reticent to allow him to join, not because he wasn't intrigued by the concept but because he was unsure if they could pull it off.

"The tournament organizers made a big, big pitch to have Zurdo enter the tournament, but I was reluctant to go in on the basis that we didn't have any confidence in the tournament," Arum said. "It seemed preposterous to me, but they are proving themselves. They've been quality fights and quality productions. I think Zurdo would have done well but I didn't want to take the chance knowing what we had going on in the U.S. (with the new Top Rank-ESPN partnership)."

But Arum said he would be open to matching Ramirez with the eventual WBSS winner.

[Enlightened-One]

Rather than speculate about the reason why certain fighters chose not to compete in the WBSS, did anyone bother to read the official WBSS boxer selection process?

• 15th May, 2017 - Tournament enrolment commenced where all WBA, WBC, WBO and IBF Champions as well as all top 15 world-ranked contenders were given the opportunity make their application to enter the tournament
• 26th May, 2017 – Enrolment closed
• 6th July, 2017 – It was announced that Callum Smith, George Groves, Juergen Braehmer, Erik Skoglund and Jamie Cox would compete in the WBSS. On the same date, ESPN reported that Anthony Dirrell had breached one of the terms of his contract to face Callum Smith and also rejected an opportunity to compete in the tournament
• 7th July, 2017 – It was announced that Avni Yildirim, as well as the winner of the Chris Eubank Jr. vs. Arthur Abraham fight, will also join the WBSS
• 16th September, 2017 – The tournament commences with Callum Smith defeating Erik Skoglund

Dougie Fischer of The RING explained the most likely reason why US TV rejected the opportunity to cover the WBSS, which relates to the fact that Richard Schaefer and the Sauerland brothers were locked out of the three main networks:

• Showtime’s dates were already filled by PBC fighters
• HBO didn’t want to alienate Golden Boy by working with Richard Schaefer, who had previously burned bridges with both that network and promoter
• ESPN’s slate was already full with Top Rank and GBP shows for the remainder of the year

Therefore, it’s no coincidence that fighters with promoters affiliated to Showtime, HBO & ESPN either didn’t apply for the tournament or rejected an opportunity to compete in it.

So let’s take a look at the big name 168lb-ers that weren't included in the WBSS:

James DeGale - (PBC) - Wanted to face the winner of the WBSS tournament after recovering from injury
Badou Jack - (PBC) - Already had a light heavyweight bout lined-up and had no intention to return to 168lbs
Gilberto Ramirez - (Top Rank) - Injured during sparring at the time the WBSS was announced and chose to face the eventual winner
Anthony Dirrell - (PBC) - Rejected an opportunity to compete in the WBSS
Andre Dirrell - (PBC) – Did not enter the WBSS
Jose Uzcategui - (PBC) - Lost his bout against Andre Dirrell a couple of months prior to the announcement of the WBSS
Tyron Zeuge - Rejected an opportunity to compete in the WBSS
David Benavidez - (PBC) - Chose to compete for the vacant WBC title against Ronald Gavril
Jesse Hart - (Top Rank) – Did not enter the WBSS, branded the tournament as a joke and chose to face Gilberto Ramirez instead

In regards to those that did enter the WBSS 168lbs tournament, only three fighters weren’t rated in either The RING’s or ESPN’s divisional rankings from 160lbs to 175lbs, such as:
• Jamie Cox
• Erik Skoglund
• Avni Yildirim (chose to compete in the WBSS instead of exploiting his WBC ranking and challenge for that belt at 168lbs)

All four fighters that have progressed to the WBSS semi-final stage of the tournament are rated in the top-ten of that division by ESPN and/or The RING, with the likes of George Groves, Callum Smith and Chris Eubank Jr. universally considered as three of the top five 168lb-ers.

[jamamb]

good post

i dont think its really a conspiracy

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Brant was a no-hoper from the get-go. Not only is his resume pitiful, but Brant has been a MIDDLEWEIGHT from the beginning of his career and had NO BUSINESS fighting at 168!!

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/609170

Sauerland is not the money man behind WBSS, it's Swiss banker Richard Schafer, who parted on very bad terms with Golden Boy Promotions and has pretty much washed his hands of promoting fights in the US. Once Schafer/Sauerland realized they werent going to get anyone who could draw viewers in North America they picked a no-hoper MW named Brant as the "token American".

Exactly. That's my point. Why would they ask the no-hoper with zero fanbase, when you can ask the name fighters?

As has been stated above, the selection process for the WBSS involved inviting every beltholder plus every top 15 ranked fighter in all 4 alphabet orgs to apply to join the tournament. That includes Hart and Benavidez, as well as Ramirez, both Dirrells etc... If they didn't want to join, whatever the reason, that's on them. If they claim they weren't asked, either they're lying to us, or their promoter/advisor lied to them (by rejecting on their behalf then telling the fighter they weren't invited).

If you give every ranked fighter the same opportunity, that's not bias, however you try to spin it. I get that the US doesn't like Schaefer (money man, yes, but likely zero involvement in organisation), but if the fighters want to really prove who's best, egos need to be put aside - that's what it really boils down to. Promoters work for fighters, not vice versa.

I guarantee you that Schafer/Sauerland more than made up for any financial losses from lack of North American fighters when they SOLD the final to Saudi Arabia!!

Well duh... How is any venue chosen?

It's always wherever gives the best financial return, whether that's through gate receipts, or the venue flat out buying the fight.

That's how Vegas works. The casinos buy the fight, then give the most expensive tickets out for free as concessions to high-rollers - who then pay the casinos back tenfold (or more) through the tables and slots. Very few prime seats in Vegas are actually paid for by those occupying them.

Why should Saudi Arabia be criticised for doing exactly what Vegas has done for decades? And why should the Sauerlands/Schaefer be criticised, for doing exactly what GBP/Top Rank etc do in Vegas, year in year out?

Corruption in FIFA is a totally separate issue. As far is boxing is concerned, Jeddah is only doing what Vegas does on a regular basis. Its a long accepted practice. Criticise both, or neither.

BTW now that we are guaranteed at least one Brit fighter in the 168-pound final, dont be surprised if it ends up in a British soccer arena with 40-50,000 fans, again helping Schafer/Sauerland recoup any lost American $$$.

Again, so what? If that's what makes sense, then what's wrong with that?

If the US based fighters actually did bother to return their applications, and Ramirez and Benavidez made the final, that would likely go to Vegas or some other major US city.

It's not Smith, Groves or Eubank's fault the American based lot weren't interested. As said previously, they had the same opportunity!