BoxRec

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 16:04

Mimmy wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 16:02 I just dont think the human body can move with all that tight muscle, and it must be tight because there is far more muscle than the body needs.

I'm going to ask a physiotherapist when im back at work next week.

I remember what happened to Tommy Morrison after doing the Rocky III movie. He got the "musclepox" disease from Stallone and was never the same. He lost the speed that made him a unique power puncher.

Rocky 5

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 15:41

gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 15:33

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 15:31
He is neither Lennox Lewis nor Frank Bruno. He has completely different style comparing to Lewis and is more skilled and less stiff than Bruno. I think Lewis had better stamina, but AJ carries his power late better than Lewis who never stopped anyone if the fight went past 8 rounds. Lennox had better jab, not neccesarily harder, but more precious one. Also Lennox had better footwork and footspeed. But I think current Joshua is better than pre-Steward Lewis was. I'm pretty sure that current version of Joshua would demolish Phil Jackson in 1-2 rounds and wouldn't let Frank Bruno to outbox him for the first 6 rounds.

I don't think Lewis' power diminished late he was just patient enough to stay focused on simply outboxing a guy and winning that way rather than going for a KO.

Takam should've went the distance with AJ, he wasn't hurt at the time of the stoppage.

But against Wlad he has shown his power was still there in the 11th round of a very tough fight. His stamina looked really bad against both Wlad and Takam though.

Knocking down Wlad is not unique to AJ...

gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 16:07

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 16:04

Mimmy wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 16:02 I just dont think the human body can move with all that tight muscle, and it must be tight because there is far more muscle than the body needs.

I'm going to ask a physiotherapist when im back at work next week.

I remember what happened to Tommy Morrison after doing the Rocky III movie. He got the "musclepox" disease from Stallone and was never the same. He lost the speed that made him a unique power puncher.

Rocky 5

I was never good with Roman Numerals, but you are correct...Rocky IV.

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 16:12

gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 16:07

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 16:04

I remember what happened to Tommy Morrison after doing the Rocky III movie. He got the "musclepox" disease from Stallone and was never the same. He lost the speed that made him a unique power puncher.

Rocky 5

I was never good with Roman Numerals, but you are correct...Rocky IV.

You're REALLY not good with Roman Numerals.

It's Rocky V. Rocky IV is 4.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 16:14

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 16:12

gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 16:07

Rocky 5

I was never good with Roman Numerals, but you are correct...Rocky IV.

You're REALLY not good with Roman Numerals.

It's Rocky V. Rocky IV is 4.

LMAO! enough said.

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 16:00

Syntax Error wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 15:56

Mimmy wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 15:50 AJ is certainly Bruno but I think its because of the muscle mass. Bruno was very robotic and to be honest I just think its the way they are built it terms of muscle. I just dont think their bodys were designed to be boxers the way they were built. I dont think they can maneuver the way other heavyweights can. I simply beleive its body muscle thats the issue.

Joshua is certainly becoming Brunoesque in stature.

The last time out, he was 254lbs which is about 10lbs more than he usually comes in at.

I don't know why Joshua feels he needs to weigh any more, as he was pretty huge to begin with.

You have to blame the trainer. He should be spending his time on slipping and sliding and not lifting.

Hear hear.

It beggars belief that so-called expert boxing trainers would let their fighters come in so heavy & muscled up.

There's just no need for it.

to me AJ is a technically o more sound version
of george foreman. he is not versatile as ali
or swarming as frazier. i have no clear picture
of lennox as a fighter aside of someone smart
enough to found a way to win. bruno was very
different, more a black version of francis botha,
with short heavy punches as main weapon.

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 16:04

Mimmy wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 16:02 I just dont think the human body can move with all that tight muscle, and it must be tight because there is far more muscle than the body needs.

I remember what happened to Tommy Morrison after doing the Rocky III movie. He got the "musclepox" disease from Stallone and was never the same. He lost the speed that made him a unique power puncher.

The body doesn't "need" a lot of muscle... But if you want to excel at athletics you add strength, power, balance, spring, speed, flexibility, agility etc... In that process of that you're going to add muscle to your frame... Not for show - for function.

Morrison wasn't "speedy" .... He was uniquely easy to hit and lacked skills... Watch his fight with Ray Mercer... Then watch his fight with Michael Bentt... Bentt was terrible, but put Morrison away in the 1st round.

Morrison needed a flexibility coach and a boxing coach... Everything from his stance to his footwork and jab were atrocities... Obviously you don't do bench presses with barbells for Boxing... You use dumbbells... You use kettlebells for hinge exercises and You don't do barbell squats for your quadriceps, glutes, and hamstrings... You use leg-press machines for greater control to avoid knee injuries...

Morrison was stiff... Joshua has great flexibility, speed, and range, even for his height, because he has better coaching for everything... His diet is a little more hi-tech because of top nutritionists.

Syntax Error wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 15:20

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 13:35

IRLangmaid25 wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 13:32

Height and reach I would say Lennox Lewis, the way he is physically defined Bruno.

I suspect chin wise he's Bruno.

Nothing wrong with Bruno's chin; in fact, I'd go as far as to say he had a tremendous chin.

Bruno's failings were lack of speed, mobility & stamina.

He also lacked the ability to improvise under pressure & that's what led to his defeats.

Yep. Tyson couldn’t knock him out either time... ref have to save Bruno

Mimmy wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 16:02 I just dont think the human body can move with all that tight muscle, and it must be tight because there is far more muscle than the body needs.

I'm going to ask a physiotherapist when im back at work next week.

I have literally never seen any scientific research in to ‘tight muscle theory’, I’ve only ever heard it spouted on boxing forums

Gymnasts are tanked to fvck. Extremely musclely and built in some cases... especially on those rings. They move around perfectly fine

Technique and timing = power, lifting weights = bigger muscles

danconnollyeire wrote: ↑06 Mar 2018, 04:31

Mimmy wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 16:02 I just dont think the human body can move with all that tight muscle, and it must be tight because there is far more muscle than the body needs.

I'm going to ask a physiotherapist when im back at work next week.

I have literally never seen any scientific research in to ‘tight muscle theory’, I’ve only ever heard it spouted on boxing forums

Gymnasts are tanked to fvck. Extremely musclely and built in some cases... especially on those rings. They move around perfectly fine

Possibly not the same mass of muscle. Gymnasts do have muscle yes but its where they require that muscle, where as boxers have it all over thie body. 'Tight muscle theory' is nothing scientific its my theory, but I will question it next week when im back at work.

danconnollyeire wrote: ↑06 Mar 2018, 04:31

Mimmy wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 16:02 I just dont think the human body can move with all that tight muscle, and it must be tight because there is far more muscle than the body needs.

I'm going to ask a physiotherapist when im back at work next week.

I have literally never seen any scientific research in to ‘tight muscle theory’, I’ve only ever heard it spouted on boxing forums

Gymnasts are tanked to fvck. Extremely musclely and built in some cases... especially on those rings. They move around perfectly fine

i think the major difference is that much of the exercise gymnasts do is conducive to building muscle in and of iself, IE gymnastic training builds muscle. so what gymnasts do day in, day out, their daily training, the equivalent to boxers doing padwork and skill drills, builds muscle in a way that boxing training doesn't.

so from my unscientific perspective, a gymnast has a better chance to be both muscular and not 'tight' or blocky, because the rpactise of their skills in itself makes them muscular. on the other hand a boxer is only going to get muscular by training with weights, at the expense of practising the kind of boxing-related skills that maintain or increase their quickness/etc.

so with boxers who are muscular and don't seem very nimble, is it the weights that make them so? or merely the fact that their training with weights comes at the cost of less training on skills/mobility etc? know what I mean?

More Bruno. Lewis was way......way.....WAY better than this AJ

Lewis is known for being a dirty fighter...

Joshua doesn't need to cheat.... When Max Kellerman yells "SHADES OF LENNOX LEWIS" because somebody is flagrantly holding and hitting his opponent with impunity, he's referring to Lewis not Joshua...

Lewis had a lot of gloves in his face when he fought Ray Mercer... That was close... You'll never see a mess of gloves in Joshua's face... Lewis caught big shots to the chin that put him away.... That's something you won't see from Joshua... Lewis engaged in holding-n-hitting.. headbutting.. palming.. and other foul tactics that you'll never see from Joshua.

When Lewis loads ups and misses a right hand he almost falls on his face.. His stance balance and footwork were a lot more haphazard and sloppy than Joshua's precise work.. His jab, right hand counter and his combinations were nowhere near as smooth and sharp and he engaged in a lot of brawling, holding, and leaning on smaller opponent's necks... He received severe warnings and point deductions that Joshua never has gotten... AJ's a clean fighter.

I still rank Lewis as a Top-5 ATG Heavyweights -- even though he was ragged around the edges and AJ is much better.

Joshua compares better with Gene Tunney than those 2 .... cuz of the thought and discipline he puts into his game.

jewboypgh wrote: ↑06 Mar 2018, 15:28 More Bruno. Lewis was way......way.....WAY better than this AJ

Agreed

Lewis ate one HELL of a lot more punches and wasn't as balanced or sharp with his combinations.... Lewis was more like Wilder with his lunging swings and his pushing, mauling, and general slophouse rowdiness in there -- and more like Wladimir with his leaning on peoples necks and clinching and fouling on the inside.

Joshua fights cleaner and more in line with the rules... You saw almost no clinching in the Klitschko fight... Wladimir COULDN'T clinch because AJ was too strong for him.... AJ DIDN'T clinch because it's against Queensberry rules to hold.

Kalan wrote: ↑07 Mar 2018, 22:27 Lewis ate one HELL of a lot more punches and wasn't as balanced or sharp with his combinations.... Lewis was more like Wilder with his lunging swings -- and his pushing, mauling, and general slophouse rowdiness in there.

Oh my lord. Lewis is so much a better technician than AJ. My lord Jesus!

You're are freaking BLIND with your bias... Lewis was point deducted and severely warned for his bullcrap antics.

He also telegraphed... That's why he was knocked out with one shot...

Also AJ is not as good as either LL or Frank

ajs better then bruno imo

theres prob less then 10 guys in history better then lennox. maybe actually no more than a couple tbh.

Kalan wrote: ↑07 Mar 2018, 22:27 Lewis ate one HELL of a lot more punches and wasn't as balanced or sharp with his combinations.... Lewis was more like Wilder with his lunging swings and his pushing, mauling, and general slophouse rowdiness in there -- and more like Wladimir with his leaning on peoples necks and clinching and fouling on the inside.

Joshua fights cleaner and more in line with the rules... You saw almost no clinching in the Klitschko fight... Wladimir COULDN'T clinch because AJ was too strong for him.... AJ DIDN'T clinch because it's against Queensberry rules to hold.

Did you just say Lewis was like Wilder? Exit this forum... actually get on a rocket somewhere not Earth ideally. What the actually fvck

Kalan wrote: ↑07 Mar 2018, 22:27 Lewis ate one HELL of a lot more punches and wasn't as balanced or sharp with his combinations.... Lewis was more like Wilder with his lunging swings and his pushing, mauling, and general slophouse rowdiness in there -- and more like Wladimir with his leaning on peoples necks and clinching and fouling on the inside.

Joshua fights cleaner and more in line with the rules... You saw almost no clinching in the Klitschko fight... Wladimir COULDN'T clinch because AJ was too strong for him.... AJ DIDN'T clinch because it's against Queensberry rules to hold.

Untrue!

Wladimir Klitschko dropped Anthony Joshua with a single punch. Something Anthony Joshua failed to do to Wladimir Klitschko. So no, as far as I'm concerned, Joshua isn't 'stronger' than Wlad or "too strong for him".

The reason why Wlad didn't clinch much against Anthony Joshua was because:

1) He didn't need to.

2) He was the challenger fighting in his opponent's backyard.


Wladimir Klitschko MAINLY clinches if his opponents dive in with their head or initiate the clinches. Only in the Povetkin fight did he clinch excessively without there being any justification for it.

Also, a few clinches isn't against the rule but excessive clinching is. So the occasional clinch executed by Wlad doesn't mean he was breaking the rule.

And Wladimir Klitschko has won many past bouts against top opponents with minimal clinches using nothing but clean boxing for the most part. Go back and watch his fights against Sultan Ibragimov, Ruslan Chagaev or David Haye. He didn't need to clinch in those bouts because his opponents weren't initiating the clinches by diving in with their heads illegally.

And if you think Anthony Joshua doesn't foul, then you're also wrong. The upper cut that Anthony Joshua landed on Wladimir Klitschko in the 11th round was based on Joshua fouling Wlad by pulling Wlad's head down using his wrist / fore arm before landing the uppercut. Joshua also rabbit punched Wladimir Klitschko multiple times in that fight.

You're exposing yourself as a propagandist if you're selling Anthony Joshua as some innocent clean boxer who never fouls but Wladimir Klitschko and Lennox Lewis only foul.

Wladimir Klitschko is physically stronger than Anthony Joshua. He rag-dolled Joshua in the 6th round. He has a naturally bigger frame and isn't as chemically enhanced through PED as Anthony Joshua is.

Kalan wrote: ↑07 Mar 2018, 22:27 AJ DIDN'T clinch because it's against Queensberry rules to hold.

see this kids? kalan is so far up the rectum of Anthony Joshua, he's trying to turn him into someone who refuses to break rules. he's just so honest, and humble, and pure, kalan imagines Joshua as a kind of Black Jesus.

this is a man (Joshua, not dopey kalan) who quickly became notorious (amongst those of us who have watched his rise carefully, with both eyes, and our senses and faculties intact) for hitting opponents after the bell, having done that at least 3 times to my memory, to opponents who were mostly wildly overmatched.

dear old kalan would like to ignore or forget that, though, as he likes to polish Joshua's virtual penis and fluff him up as much as possible, because joshua is one of silly kalan's Internet Crusades, and he never likes to allow the truth to get in the way of his ecstatic, forced narratives regarding whichever fighter he is currently lauding as some kind of god.

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑08 Mar 2018, 13:11

Kalan wrote: ↑07 Mar 2018, 22:27 AJ DIDN'T clinch because it's against Queensberry rules to hold.

see this kids? kalan is so far up the rectum of Anthony Joshua, he's trying to turn him into someone who refuses to break rules. he's just so honest, and humble, and pure, kalan imagines Joshua as a kind of Black Jesus.

this is a man (Joshua, not dopey kalan) who quickly became notorious (amongst those of us who have watched his rise carefully, with both eyes, and our senses and faculties intact) for hitting opponents after the bell, having done that at least 3 times to my memory, to opponents who were mostly wildly overmatched.

dear old kalan would like to ignore or forget that, though, as he likes to polish Joshua's virtual penis and fluff him up as much as possible, because joshua is one of silly kalan's Internet Crusades, and he never likes to allow the truth to get in the way of his ecstatic, forced narratives regarding whichever fighter he is currently lauding as some kind of god.

I'm mainly just waiting to see Kalan's response on the day when Joshua does finally inevitably lose to somebody (it's near impossible for a Heavyweight to have a lengthy career and never get upset by SOMEBODY). I figure on that day AJ will suddenly be a bum in the eyes of Kalan, and whatever Tall Heavyweight that currently hasn't lost is the new God among Men.