boxing_rocks wrote: ↑09 Mar 2018, 17:00
The rules can be interpreted differently. Why was Ronnie Shields told that it was illegal if it was "legal for decades"?
What exactly was Shields objecting to, and how was it different/similar to what Sanchez was objecting to in Canelo vs Golovkin.
If the rulings are inconsistent, that's a genuine concern.
Re: Wrap stacking
Posted: 09 Mar 2018, 20:22
by Joe Boxer
Could someone please confirm?
Wrap stacking involves layers of tape and gauze over the back of the hand and wrist, but NOT over the knuckles.
Is that correct?
Because there should be no arguments about tape over the knuckles; it’s simply not allowed.
Re: Wrap stacking
Posted: 09 Mar 2018, 21:07
by jamamb
its illegal in some jurisdcitions im pretty sure, but not in all
Re: Wrap stacking
Posted: 10 Mar 2018, 00:41
by boxing_rocks
Joe Boxer wrote: ↑09 Mar 2018, 20:22
Could someone please confirm?
Wrap stacking involves layers of tape and gauze over the back of the hand and wrist, but NOT over the knuckles.
Is that correct?
Because there should be no arguments about tape over the knuckles; it’s simply not allowed.
It looks like Canelo had tape on his knuckles:
Re: Wrap stacking
Posted: 10 Mar 2018, 04:18
by Kalan
It's no news at all.... The NSAC has been in Floyd Mayweather's pocket for over a decade.
The judges are stacked... The referee is stacked... The sanctions for PED usage are stacked against one fighter -- and favorable to another fighter... The handwrapping rules are stacked... Which corner you get to sit in is stacked.
When they force you to wear a certain make of glove - and color of glove so it coordinates with your trunks and contrasts with the color of glove the star boxer wants to wear... I'm a little suspicious of the gloves... The foam padding can be made of different densities and structured and layered very differently from one set of gloves to another... They look and feel roughly the same - but one set of gloves delivers a more damaging blow for the same force applied.
For a fight where the paychecks of the boxers are going to be in the 10's of millions, I would ask for the gloves to be taken off in the ring following the fight -- and all 4 gloves cut in half length wise... Each team receives 2 halves of their boxer's gloves and 2 halves of the opponent's gloves... That way you can take them to a lab and have them analyzed for foam density, structure, and layering to see if both pairs are exactly the same...
With many millions of dollars involved, people will do anything to get an edge... If they fix judges, referees and hand wrapping rules - why not mess with the gloves to have an edge??? .... "OK...your trunks are white.. You get to pick from eight pairs of white gloves.. Our trunks are black, and we'll pick from the 8 pairs of black gloves... All the gloves are the same."
Re: Wrap stacking
Posted: 10 Mar 2018, 05:00
by Luckybattles
Joe Boxer wrote: ↑09 Mar 2018, 20:22
Could someone please confirm?
Wrap stacking involves layers of tape and gauze over the back of the hand and wrist, but NOT over the knuckles.
Is that correct?
Because there should be no arguments about tape over the knuckles; it’s simply not allowed.
Tape-gauze-tape-gauze is illegal but it’s not heavily enforced. Maybe cause it was legal for a long time and some old timers still don’t get it. You may get a mild warning but it’s not like you are using plaster. The ref usually mentions this in the dressing room. On the undercard it happens with little or no oversight. Some officials are more liniment than others and may overlook stacking that is not directly over the knuckles while others may make an issue out of any kind of stacking on the hand. However, I think that more recently, officials are becoming more quick to address any kind of stacking on any part of the hand.
Re: Wrap stacking
Posted: 10 Mar 2018, 05:16
by Thomastearns
Kalan wrote: ↑10 Mar 2018, 04:18
It's no news at all.... The NSAC has been in Floyd Mayweather's pocket for over a decade.
The judges are stacked... The referee is stacked... The sanctions for PED usage are stacked against one fighter -- and favorable to another fighter... The handwrapping rules are stacked... Which corner you get to sit in is stacked.
Canelogate has highlighted just about everything that's wrong with the sport .
Some fighters are way ahead of others in trying to gain every possible advantage, inc colour of gloves etc but rules are there for a reason. All of these things need sorting out asap. It may take legal action to implement change is boxing, it usually does everywhere else.
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 Mar 2018, 09:57
The more I think about this situation, the more I’m inclined to believe that Abel Sanchez is simply creating controversy, where none exists, in order to grab media headlines, since it was far too easy to read the NSAC’s own rules and verify that they’ve always behaved consistently in regards to how they previously dealt with similar “hand wrap stacking” situations for other fights.
If GGG’s trainer is being 100% sincere about his criticism of the NSAC, then perhaps we should be critical of his lack of knowledge about their rules, since it’s his role to look after his own fighters’ best interests by wrapping Golovkin's hands in the same fashion that Canelo did.
You continue to get on Abel Sanches for "creating controversy" but don't you see how badly he needs to? Do you realize how tipped the scales are in Canelo's direction already? Good for Abel. He should be squeaking about every single thing from now until the bell. Abel needs to draw attention to the inequities of this matchup in hopes that by creating acknowledgement preemptively, maybe GGG will actually end up not having the odds stacked so heavily against him.
Give GGG and Sanches a break. If you want to get on anyone then get on Oscar and his little red headed cow eating, Dave Moretti paying, steroid taking, boxer who can only lose with a knockout. Abel and GGG have no way to win this fight otherwise. Why they agreed to rematch and losing their historical position in Boxing is beyond me. I guess they chose money. But enough with your repeated criticism of Sanchez. I would love my trainer to be doing what Abel has been doing especially since he's not that kind of loudmouth trainer. He's got class but even he knows that this and the last fight smell of contempt.
In the context of "hand wrap stacking" alone, GGG isn't at a disadvantage. If his own trainer doesn't know the rules, then perhaps he should fire him and employ someone else.
If you genuinely feel that Golovkin is being treated unfairly, in regards to the NSAC's rule relating to "hand wrap stacking", then explain your reasoning, because I'd appreciate an opportunity to decimate your argument with consummate ease!
Joe Boxer wrote: ↑09 Mar 2018, 20:22
Could someone please confirm?
Wrap stacking involves layers of tape and gauze over the back of the hand and wrist, but NOT over the knuckles.
Is that correct?
Because there should be no arguments about tape over the knuckles; it’s simply not allowed.
Tape-gauze-tape-gauze is illegal
Not in Nevada, it isn't. Quote the so-called rules if you believe otherwise, but I doubt you'll even attempt to do this, since they don't exist.
Seriously, try to substantiate your claim.
Re: Wrap stacking
Posted: 10 Mar 2018, 08:06
by Enlightened-One
jamamb wrote: ↑09 Mar 2018, 21:07
its illegal in some jurisdcitions im pretty sure, but not in all
It's not illegal in Nevada and Abel Sanchez is being negligent in his responsibilities for not knowing this.
boxing_rocks wrote: ↑09 Mar 2018, 17:00
The rules can be interpreted differently. Why was Ronnie Shields told that it was illegal if it was "legal for decades"?
What exactly was Shields objecting to, and how was it different/similar to what Sanchez was objecting to in Canelo vs Golovkin.
If the rulings are inconsistent, that's a genuine concern.
The NSAC rules cannot possibly be misinterpreted. They allow hand wrap stacking.
To claim otherwise is moronic.
People are believing that something controversial has occurred, when it clearly hasn't.
Hand wrap stacking has been perfectly legal in Nevada for decades.
Re: Wrap stacking
Posted: 10 Mar 2018, 08:10
by Enlightened-One
Kalan wrote: ↑10 Mar 2018, 04:18
It's no news at all.... The NSAC has been in Floyd Mayweather's pocket for over a decade.
The judges are stacked... The referee is stacked... The sanctions for PED usage are stacked against one fighter -- and favorable to another fighter... The handwrapping rules are stacked... Which corner you get to sit in is stacked.
When they force you to wear a certain make of glove - and color of glove so it coordinates with your trunks and contrasts with the color of glove the star boxer wants to wear... I'm a little suspicious of the gloves... The foam padding can be made of different densities and structured and layered very differently from one set of gloves to another... They look and feel roughly the same - but one set of gloves delivers a more damaging blow for the same force applied.
For a fight where the paychecks of the boxers are going to be in the 10's of millions, I would ask for the gloves to be taken off in the ring following the fight -- and all 4 gloves cut in half length wise... Each team receives 2 halves of their boxer's gloves and 2 halves of the opponent's gloves... That way you can take them to a lab and have them analyzed for foam density, structure, and layering to see if both pairs are exactly the same...
With many millions of dollars involved, people will do anything to get an edge... If they fix judges, referees and hand wrapping rules - why not mess with the gloves to have an edge??? .... "OK...your trunks are white.. You get to pick from eight pairs of white gloves.. Our trunks are black, and we'll pick from the 8 pairs of black gloves... All the gloves are the same."
That's a hell of a lot of waffle, but none of it addresses the fact that hand wrap stacking has been perfectly legal in Nevada for decades.
Re: Wrap stacking
Posted: 10 Mar 2018, 08:13
by Enlightened-One
boxing_rocks wrote: ↑09 Mar 2018, 17:00
The rules can be interpreted differently. Why was Ronnie Shields told that it was illegal if it was "legal for decades"?
The rules cannot possibly be misinterpreted.
Hand wrap stacking has been perfectly legal in Nevada for decades and Abel Sanchez has clearly been negligent in his duties for not understanding their rules.
You are heavily relying on somebody's factually incorrect tweet posted by someone that has no direct ties with Ronnie Shields and probably never witnessed Canelo's hands being wrapped for his bout against Lara.
I've already supplied a video proving that the NSAC explicitly allowed “gauze-tape-gauze-tape” for the Canelo-Lara bout.
Joe Boxer wrote: ↑09 Mar 2018, 20:22
Could someone please confirm?
Wrap stacking involves layers of tape and gauze over the back of the hand and wrist, but NOT over the knuckles.
Is that correct?
Because there should be no arguments about tape over the knuckles; it’s simply not allowed.
Tape-gauze-tape-gauze is illegal
Not in Nevada, it isn't. Quote the so-called rules if you believe otherwise, but I doubt you'll even attempt to do this, since they don't exist.
Seriously, try to substantiate your claim.
Maybe true. I’ve worked many fights primarily in Nevada and CA. It’s been 3-4 years now and I may have forgotten the differences in state regulations . There also probably lies some of the confusion between these camps
Re: Wrap stacking
Posted: 10 Mar 2018, 14:33
by Deleted_Scenes
Would it not make a lot of sense if rules were made consistent across all commissions?
Or do NSAC have some kind of superiority complex, and feel they need to be different?
What stacking effectively achieves, is certainly against the spirit of the sport, even if it's not illegal in this one state. Maybe they should make it illegal, rather than basically allowing loaded gloves (even if it is the same for both fighters).
Not in Nevada, it isn't. Quote the so-called rules if you believe otherwise, but I doubt you'll even attempt to do this, since they don't exist.
Seriously, try to substantiate your claim.
Maybe true. I’ve worked many fights primarily in Nevada and CA. It’s been 3-4 years now and I may have forgotten the differences in state regulations . There also probably lies some of the confusion between these camps
It was a multi-million dollar fight and Abel Sanchez shouldn't have left no stone unturned, by actually making an effort to learn the rules, but instead he dropped a bôllôck.
He should have conceded to the mistake he made, but instead he's wrongly chosen to divert attention away from people picking up on his error by claiming "controversy", where none clearly exists.
Re: Wrap stacking
Posted: 10 Mar 2018, 18:07
by boxing_rocks
If Canelo wanted his gloves loaded, NSAC would say that there is nothing in their rules disallowing that.
Stacking is a mild form of loading.
Re: Wrap stacking
Posted: 10 Mar 2018, 18:10
by Enlightened-One
boxing_rocks wrote: ↑10 Mar 2018, 18:07
If Canelo wanted his gloves loaded, NSAC would say that there is nothing in their rules disallowing that.
Stacking is a mild form of loading.
Hand wrap stacking is perfectly legal under NSAC jurisdiction and has been for several decades. Abel Sanchez needs to learn the rules instead of wrongly claiming foul when no rules have actually been broken.
Re: Wrap stacking
Posted: 10 Mar 2018, 23:23
by Enlightened-One
Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑10 Mar 2018, 14:33
Would it not make a lot of sense if rules were made consistent across all commissions?
Or do NSAC have some kind of superiority complex, and feel they need to be different?
What stacking effectively achieves, is certainly against the spirit of the sport, even if it's not illegal in this one state. Maybe they should make it illegal, rather than basically allowing loaded gloves (even if it is the same for both fighters).
Why are you only now choosing to complain about the NSAC's rule that have existed for decades?
There's no scandal here.
Abel Sanchez didn't make an effort to learn the rules and if I was GGG, I would consider firing him for his lack of due diligence, because any trainer of a fighter engaging in a multi-million dollar fight should understand the rules of the sports governing bodies.
Re: Wrap stacking
Posted: 10 Mar 2018, 23:26
by Enlightened-One
boxing_rocks wrote: ↑10 Mar 2018, 18:07
If Canelo wanted his gloves loaded, NSAC would say that there is nothing in their rules disallowing that.
Stacking is a mild form of loading.
You're stupidly complaining about rules that have existed for decades and are wrongly accusing the NSAC of being corrupt, whilst ignorantly forgetting about Abel Sanchez's failure to fulfil the obligations of his role to GGG, due to his abundantly clear inability to understand the rules of the sports' governing bodies.
You keep trying to divert attention away from the facts of reality that are categorically impossible to refute, which only portrays yourself as being incredibly fûckîng stupid!
You're simply a blindly loyal naive cheerleader! Passionately defending, with ignorance, anyone that is a member of Team GGG, even when they've fûckêd up and done something monumentally fûckîng stupid!
Here's a novel idea... If you're a genuine fan of GGG and are passionate about his best interests, why don't you attack those that have been paid millions of dollars that haven't fulfilled the roles that they're obliged to perform, such as Abel Sanchez's inability to learn the fûckîng incredibly simple rules of hand wrapping?
Something must be wrong when a lunatic like me is able to understand the NSAC's rules and also establish their consistent behaviour in regards to hand wrapping with a few minutes or so, but who knows, perhaps you're a particularly slow learner?
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 Mar 2018, 09:57
The more I think about this situation, the more I’m inclined to believe that Abel Sanchez is simply creating controversy, where none exists, in order to grab media headlines, since it was far too easy to read the NSAC’s own rules and verify that they’ve always behaved consistently in regards to how they previously dealt with similar “hand wrap stacking” situations for other fights.
If GGG’s trainer is being 100% sincere about his criticism of the NSAC, then perhaps we should be critical of his lack of knowledge about their rules, since it’s his role to look after his own fighters’ best interests by wrapping Golovkin's hands in the same fashion that Canelo did.
You continue to get on Abel Sanches for "creating controversy" but don't you see how badly he needs to? Do you realize how tipped the scales are in Canelo's direction already? Good for Abel. He should be squeaking about every single thing from now until the bell. Abel needs to draw attention to the inequities of this matchup in hopes that by creating acknowledgement preemptively, maybe GGG will actually end up not having the odds stacked so heavily against him.
Give GGG and Sanches a break. If you want to get on anyone then get on Oscar and his little red headed cow eating, Dave Moretti paying, steroid taking, boxer who can only lose with a knockout. Abel and GGG have no way to win this fight otherwise. Why they agreed to rematch and losing their historical position in Boxing is beyond me. I guess they chose money. But enough with your repeated criticism of Sanchez. I would love my trainer to be doing what Abel has been doing especially since he's not that kind of loudmouth trainer. He's got class but even he knows that this and the last fight smell of contempt.
In the context of "hand wrap stacking" alone, GGG isn't at a disadvantage. If his own trainer doesn't know the rules, then perhaps he should fire him and employ someone else.
If you genuinely feel that Golovkin is being treated unfairly, in regards to the NSAC's rule relating to "hand wrap stacking", then explain your reasoning, because I'd appreciate an opportunity to decimate your argument with consummate ease!
You have been on ur soapbox preaching anti GGG and Sanchez since the first fight. You have a clear agenda. Just take it in and enjoy instead of faulting a trainer for doing exactly what he’s supposed to be doing since the first fight. They both went to Vegas immaturely thinking they’d get a fair shake when most knew, and I called it so go check it if you want to be embarrassed again, so now they have to be aggressive with public perception. A game within the game.
That’s what great trainers do. I’d put Abel in that company without reservation.
You continue to get on Abel Sanches for "creating controversy" but don't you see how badly he needs to? Do you realize how tipped the scales are in Canelo's direction already? Good for Abel. He should be squeaking about every single thing from now until the bell. Abel needs to draw attention to the inequities of this matchup in hopes that by creating acknowledgement preemptively, maybe GGG will actually end up not having the odds stacked so heavily against him.
Give GGG and Sanches a break. If you want to get on anyone then get on Oscar and his little red headed cow eating, Dave Moretti paying, steroid taking, boxer who can only lose with a knockout. Abel and GGG have no way to win this fight otherwise. Why they agreed to rematch and losing their historical position in Boxing is beyond me. I guess they chose money. But enough with your repeated criticism of Sanchez. I would love my trainer to be doing what Abel has been doing especially since he's not that kind of loudmouth trainer. He's got class but even he knows that this and the last fight smell of contempt.
In the context of "hand wrap stacking" alone, GGG isn't at a disadvantage. If his own trainer doesn't know the rules, then perhaps he should fire him and employ someone else.
If you genuinely feel that Golovkin is being treated unfairly, in regards to the NSAC's rule relating to "hand wrap stacking", then explain your reasoning, because I'd appreciate an opportunity to decimate your argument with consummate ease!
You have been on ur soapbox preaching anti GGG and Sanchez since the first fight. You have a clear agenda. Just take it in and enjoy instead of faulting a trainer for doing exactly what he’s supposed to be doing since the first fight. They both went to Vegas immaturely thinking they’d get a fair shake when most knew, and I called it so go check it if you want to be embarrassed again, so now they have to be aggressive with public perception. A game within the game.
That’s what great trainers do. I’d put Abel in that company without reservation.
You're using "red herrings" to divert attention away from the fact that Abel Sanchez didn't understand the rules when he is being paid millions of dollars from GGG himself, as part of his duties as a trainer, to actually learn them.
I agree about Golovkin being the so-called "victim" in relation to this situation, but the real culprit isn't the NSAC, in fact it's actually Abel Sanchez.
I have to assume you agree with me, because you cannot possibly pretend that the NSAC's rules are unclear and nor can you possibly convince anyone that they haven't persistently allowed hand wrap stacking in the past.
It's abundantly clear that you've already lost this debate, since you keep trying to change the topic of discussion, because you find it categorically impossible to undermine any of my claims relating to the NSAC's rules regarding hand wrap stacking.
So it's nice to see you concede defeat for a change, since it's clear you won't even attempt to address this topic directly. Thanks for that!
If you want to debate something else, create a new thread.
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑10 Mar 2018, 07:56
In the context of "hand wrap stacking" alone, GGG isn't at a disadvantage. If his own trainer doesn't know the rules, then perhaps he should fire him and employ someone else.
If you genuinely feel that Golovkin is being treated unfairly, in regards to the NSAC's rule relating to "hand wrap stacking", then explain your reasoning, because I'd appreciate an opportunity to decimate your argument with consummate ease!
You have been on ur soapbox preaching anti GGG and Sanchez since the first fight. You have a clear agenda. Just take it in and enjoy instead of faulting a trainer for doing exactly what he’s supposed to be doing since the first fight. They both went to Vegas immaturely thinking they’d get a fair shake when most knew, and I called it so go check it if you want to be embarrassed again, so now they have to be aggressive with public perception. A game within the game.
That’s what great trainers do. I’d put Abel in that company without reservation.
You're using "red herrings" to divert attention away from the fact that Abel Sanchez didn't understand the rules when he has received millions of dollars from GGG himself to actually learn them.
I agree about Golovkin being the so-called "victim" in relation to this situation, but the real culprit isn't the NSAC, in fact it's actually Abel Sanchez.
I have to assume you agree with me, because you cannot possibly pretend that the NSAC's rules are unclear and nor can you possibly convince anyone that they haven't persistently allowed hand wrap stacking in the past.
It’s a head game, don’t you get that? It gives the other guy one more thing to worry about or alter come fight night. Do you think that Abel is looking for anything more? His job is to get in their heads and it’s these little jabs that add up and affect preparations in some camps.
GGG NEEDS ALL THE HELP HE CAN GET. This is not rocket science man. On fight night, they will now have extra focus on wrapping Canelo, the last “gentlemen, start your engines” moment. That is great work by GGG’’s camp. How you can’t see that shows how little you’ve been involved in sports.
You have been on ur soapbox preaching anti GGG and Sanchez since the first fight. You have a clear agenda. Just take it in and enjoy instead of faulting a trainer for doing exactly what he’s supposed to be doing since the first fight. They both went to Vegas immaturely thinking they’d get a fair shake when most knew, and I called it so go check it if you want to be embarrassed again, so now they have to be aggressive with public perception. A game within the game.
That’s what great trainers do. I’d put Abel in that company without reservation.
You're using "red herrings" to divert attention away from the fact that Abel Sanchez didn't understand the rules when he has received millions of dollars from GGG himself to actually learn them.
I agree about Golovkin being the so-called "victim" in relation to this situation, but the real culprit isn't the NSAC, in fact it's actually Abel Sanchez.
I have to assume you agree with me, because you cannot possibly pretend that the NSAC's rules are unclear and nor can you possibly convince anyone that they haven't persistently allowed hand wrap stacking in the past.
It’s a head game, don’t you get that? It gives the other guy one more thing to worry about or alter come fight night. Do you think that Abel is looking for anything more? His job is to get in their heads and it’s these little jabs that add up and affect preparations in some camps.
GGG NEEDS ALL THE HELP HE CAN GET. This is not rocket science man. On fight night, they will now have extra focus on wrapping Canelo, the last “gentlemen, start your engines” moment. That is great work by GGG’’s camp. How you can’t see that shows how little you’ve been involved in sports.
There won't be any extra focus on hand wrapping.
Sanchez either doesn't understand the rules or he's simply using WWE style trash talk bûllshît nonsense to promote the fight, by fabricating "controversy" where none exists.
The NSAC and Team Canelo won't be fûckîng ârsêd about hand wrap stacking come fight night, since it's a none issue.
Those that initially defended Abel Sanchez are now choosing to remain silent on this matter since both the rules and also their application have been consistently applied by the NSAC for decades.
