BoxRec

caldo2025 wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 07:38 If everyone in Boxing weighed the same, to the ounce, who would be the best? Simple as that? That's all you need to consider. AJ vs. Loma in my mind, if they were the same weight, would be a beatdown by Loma. Not even close. It's easy, see?

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 08:02

caldo2025 wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 07:38 If everyone in Boxing weighed the same, to the ounce, who would be the best? Simple as that? That's all you need to consider. AJ vs. Loma in my mind, if they were the same weight, would be a beatdown by Loma. Not even close. It's easy, see?

The problem with that, is attributes are affected by size/weight. Loma has skills that any fighter above a certain weight could never possibly have, and if Loma was 240 pounds, wouldn't have himself due to the constraints of the human body. This is why some people say p4p lists favour the lighter weights. They do.

It all depends where you're setting this arbitrary "same weight". If Loma and Joshua both weigh 130, Loma schools him. If Loma weighs 250, the constraints of the human body take away all of what makes him so special - Joshua smashes the poo out of that Loma.

I like p4p lists. They're fun to discuss, and they bring attention to the less fashionable weights. Are they worth anything though? Not really.

caldo2025 wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 07:38 I've always loved the P4P notion and make no mistake about it, it's extremely important to the boxers as well. I'd go as far as to say that it's more important than belts to a lot of boxers. If it's THAT important to them then it should definitely be something fans take into consideration.

My biggest problem with P4P discussions on this forum or with buddies over a beer, a lot of people do not know what they are supposed to be considering. Is it what a fighter has done? resume? ability? dominance? Is it all about KO's? knockout streaks?

My typical response and the easiest way to explain what is considered when determining P4P status is this. If everyone in Boxing weighed the same, to the ounce, who would be the best? Simple as that? That's all you need to consider. AJ vs. Loma in my mind, if they were the same weight, would be a beatdown by Loma. Not even close. It's easy, see?

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 10:49

caldo2025 wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 07:38 I've always loved the P4P notion and make no mistake about it, it's extremely important to the boxers as well. I'd go as far as to say that it's more important than belts to a lot of boxers. If it's THAT important to them then it should definitely be something fans take into consideration.

My biggest problem with P4P discussions on this forum or with buddies over a beer, a lot of people do not know what they are supposed to be considering. Is it what a fighter has done? resume? ability? dominance? Is it all about KO's? knockout streaks?

My typical response and the easiest way to explain what is considered when determining P4P status is this. If everyone in Boxing weighed the same, to the ounce, who would be the best? Simple as that? That's all you need to consider. AJ vs. Loma in my mind, if they were the same weight, would be a beatdown by Loma. Not even close. It's easy, see?

It's an impossible task...in your explanation, it takes out all physical advantages and disadvantages. Even within a weight class there are height/weight/reach differences. I guess the next step would be to set all power; speed; and other attributes to equal. It just cannot be done. Someone earlier had the best analogy: Comparing different fighters in different weight classes is like comparing a marathon runner with a sprinter. If that's your point then I agree.

ValMar wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 12:43

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 10:49

caldo2025 wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 07:38 I've always loved the P4P notion and make no mistake about it, it's extremely important to the boxers as well. I'd go as far as to say that it's more important than belts to a lot of boxers. If it's THAT important to them then it should definitely be something fans take into consideration.

My biggest problem with P4P discussions on this forum or with buddies over a beer, a lot of people do not know what they are supposed to be considering. Is it what a fighter has done? resume? ability? dominance? Is it all about KO's? knockout streaks?

My typical response and the easiest way to explain what is considered when determining P4P status is this. If everyone in Boxing weighed the same, to the ounce, who would be the best? Simple as that? That's all you need to consider. AJ vs. Loma in my mind, if they were the same weight, would be a beatdown by Loma. Not even close. It's easy, see?

It's an impossible task...in your explanation, it takes out all physical advantages and disadvantages. Even within a weight class there are height/weight/reach differences. I guess the next step would be to set all power; speed; and other attributes to equal. It just cannot be done. Someone earlier had the best analogy: Comparing different fighters in different weight classes is like comparing a marathon runner with a sprinter. If that's your point then I agree.

oogiebe wrote: ↑13 Mar 2018, 19:23

x2x wrote: ↑13 Mar 2018, 16:28

gilgamesh wrote: ↑13 Mar 2018, 16:22 It's essentially become a measure of star power. The guys that are on the Pound for Pound list are often the guys that are in demand to be seen by everybody.

Or so thinks whoever created the list. Like I said the stoopid thing is nothing more than some jerk's list of his favorite boxers, usually favoring the little fellers.

You're such a dork. <<<4 y/o

x2x wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 14:17

oogiebe wrote: ↑13 Mar 2018, 19:23

x2x wrote: ↑13 Mar 2018, 16:28


Or so thinks whoever created the list. Like I said the stoopid thing is nothing more than some jerk's list of his favorite boxers, usually favoring the little fellers.

You're such a dork. <<<4 y/o

That's it, Oogeeboogee, that's it!

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 14:18

x2x wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 14:17

oogiebe wrote: ↑13 Mar 2018, 19:23

You're such a dork. <<<4 y/o

That's it, Oogeeboogee, that's it!

Listen...if I keep regressing, I'll be a twinkle in my father's eye! Cut it out!

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 12:45

ValMar wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 12:43

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 10:49

It's an impossible task...in your explanation, it takes out all physical advantages and disadvantages. Even within a weight class there are height/weight/reach differences. I guess the next step would be to set all power; speed; and other attributes to equal. It just cannot be done. Someone earlier had the best analogy: Comparing different fighters in different weight classes is like comparing a marathon runner with a sprinter. If that's your point then I agree.

Was that quote yours, Valmar?

ValMar wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 16:20

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 12:45

ValMar wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 12:43

Was that quote yours, Valmar?

Yes............

BitPlayer wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 16:17 I see it as fun.

lazboy wrote: ↑13 Mar 2018, 17:41 P4p is interesting when done with some logical explanation. For example, how does this fighters skill, athleticism, power etc translate to a higher or lower weight class. But basically it’s all guess work that can be argued well but guess work.

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 17:13

lazboy wrote: ↑13 Mar 2018, 17:41 P4p is interesting when done with some logical explanation. For example, how does this fighters skill, athleticism, power etc translate to a higher or lower weight class. But basically it’s all guess work that can be argued well but guess work.

I think fun and somewhat interesting to ponder is the majority thus far!

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 17:09

BitPlayer wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 16:17 I see it as fun.

Thank you BitPlayer...everyone is so freakin' serious about their opinions on everything, I thought I was the only one who actually enjoyed talking boxing. P4P is such a great speculative exercise, futile as it is. Excellent!

x2x wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 17:21

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 17:13

lazboy wrote: ↑13 Mar 2018, 17:41 P4p is interesting when done with some logical explanation. For example, how does this fighters skill, athleticism, power etc translate to a higher or lower weight class. But basically it’s all guess work that can be argued well but guess work.

I think fun and somewhat interesting to ponder is the majority thus far!

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 17:09

BitPlayer wrote: ↑14 Mar 2018, 16:17 I see it as fun.

Thank you BitPlayer...everyone is so freakin' serious about their opinions on everything, I thought I was the only one who actually enjoyed talking boxing. P4P is such a great speculative exercise, futile as it is. Excellent!

I'd have no problem with the pfp thing if it was just presented as a fun thing, killing time, like most of the posts here about who some guy thinks will, or could have, beat up who, who he likes, who he thinks is a bum, that sort of thing. My problem with it is places like Boxrec here, and the tv talking heads, giving it a mock official dtatus, even listing it ahead of the boxing rankings

ValMar wrote: ↑17 Mar 2018, 09:56 With or without p4p, we (generally speaking - boxing fans) will continue to follow this half-dead (sad, but true) sport.

oogiebe wrote: ↑17 Mar 2018, 16:26

ValMar wrote: ↑17 Mar 2018, 09:56 With or without p4p, we (generally speaking - boxing fans) will continue to follow this half-dead (sad, but true) sport.

Yeah, we do...but it's all worth it when we see a great fight!

ValMar wrote: ↑18 Mar 2018, 00:17

oogiebe wrote: ↑17 Mar 2018, 16:26

ValMar wrote: ↑17 Mar 2018, 09:56 With or without p4p, we (generally speaking - boxing fans) will continue to follow this half-dead (sad, but true) sport.

Yeah, we do...but it's all worth it when we see a great fight!

Yes, let us say - Joshua / Wilder winner facing Tyson Fury.

oogiebe wrote: ↑18 Mar 2018, 11:37

ValMar wrote: ↑18 Mar 2018, 00:17

oogiebe wrote: ↑17 Mar 2018, 16:26

Yeah, we do...but it's all worth it when we see a great fight!

Yes, let us say - Joshua / Wilder winner facing Tyson Fury.

...amen...