Oliver McCall vs...

[oogiebe]

What I would say about Ali is he never fought ANYBODY anywhere near the combination of height, size, strength, speed, skill, and athleticism of Lewis, Joshua, or the Klitschko Bros... Little guys put Ali on his ass so if a big guy hit him he would be unconscious... Lewis DIDN'T HAVE TO BE AGGRESSIVE against Holyfield... Evander gave those fights away...

Holyfield's chin isn't "LEGENDARY" cuz he was knocked down so often and he was knocked OUT!!!... He was also very easy for a big man to hit IF Holyfield engaged with him... Vitali's chin and McCall's chin are legendary... The best ever.

I disagree. That's what makes the world go around.

Right.... You are also impenetrable to reason or argument and that's what stalls world social and economic progress.

Kalan, kalan, kalan...I've given in to posts...changed my mind because of other's posts; furthered other's points because I had never contemplated them...I've even done it with you. So for God sake...if someone disagrees, stop insulting and calling names...it makes you sound ignorant. What you cast out you receive.

[Kalan]

I disagree. That's what makes the world go around.

Right.... You are also impenetrable to reason or argument and that's what stalls world social and economic progress.

Kalan, kalan, kalan...I've given in to posts...changed my mind because of other's posts; furthered other's points because I had never contemplated them...I've even done it with you. So for God sake...if someone disagrees, stop insulting and calling names...it makes you sound ignorant. What you cast out you receive.

oogie... oogie.... oogie... If you just say you disagree with a rock solid argument that doesn't cut it... I pointed out that McCall and Vitali had never been knocked down..... or even staggered.... Holyfield has been down several times and stopped... YOU say that Holyfield has a LEGENDARY chin... I say "What about McCall's chin???" He's never been shaken or staggered or hurt or floored or down like Holyfield... And you've got nothing... You disagree to make the world go round...

It's already going round... WHY do you disagree... It's like saying "My guy fought in a tougher era... My guy fought tougher opponents... My guy had a better chin... My guy was better, better, better, better" ..... Okay.... Why do you think that?

[gilgamesh]

McCall I'd say almost definitely has a better chin than Holyfield because he has one of the all time great chins, but having a good chin alone ain't gonna win a fight for you. I have the 1st Lewis fight, and no McCall doesn't look like some unbelievable boxer with a master plan before the KO. He looks like a guy that throws a well timed shot, and got the result he was hoping for.

Holyfield could definitely take a shot, and wasn't gonna get knocked out by McCall...and more importantly. He's way more talented than McCall, and would always beat him I don't give a sh*t if he fought him 20 times. McCall may well stagger Holyfield somewhere in there the way Bert Cooper did, but I don't think he'd ever beat him.

And you can't pretend like McCall would perform better in a different era than Holyfield. They're from the same era. Holyfield's just flat out better than him.

[oogiebe]

McCall I'd say almost definitely has a better chin than Holyfield because he has one of the all time great chins, but having a good chin alone ain't gonna win a fight for you. I have the 1st Lewis fight, and no McCall doesn't look like some unbelievable boxer with a master plan before the KO. He looks like a guy that throws a well timed shot, and got the result he was hoping for.

Holyfield could definitely take a shot, and wasn't gonna get knocked out by McCall...and more importantly. He's way more talented than McCall, and would always beat him I don't give a sh*t if he fought him 20 times. McCall may well stagger Holyfield somewhere in there the way Bert Cooper did, but I don't think he'd ever beat him.

And you can't pretend like McCall would perform better in a different era than Holyfield. They're from the same era. Holyfield's just flat out better than him.

Almost definitely...lol...ok...at least you didn't start having a fit. I stick with Holyfield's chin. I saw him through wars were he would take shot after shot and suddenly spring back with his own combinations. I am taken by him in that regard. Could be partially because he fought so many larger men.

[oogiebe]

Right.... You are also impenetrable to reason or argument and that's what stalls world social and economic progress.

Kalan, kalan, kalan...I've given in to posts...changed my mind because of other's posts; furthered other's points because I had never contemplated them...I've even done it with you. So for God sake...if someone disagrees, stop insulting and calling names...it makes you sound ignorant. What you cast out you receive.

oogie... oogie.... oogie... If you just say you disagree with a rock solid argument that doesn't cut it... I pointed out that McCall and Vitali had never been knocked down..... or even staggered.... Holyfield has been down several times and stopped... YOU say that Holyfield has a LEGENDARY chin... I say "What about McCall's chin???" He's never been shaken or staggered or hurt or floored or down like Holyfield... And you've got nothing... You disagree to make the world go round...

It's already going round... WHY do you disagree... It's like saying "My guy fought in a tougher era... My guy fought tougher opponents... My guy had a better chin... My guy was better, better, better, better" ..... Okay.... Why do you think that?

...I must say...you are extremely childish...I've told you before, if you change your approach, I'll answer. Once you go back to being a spoiled brat, I will open up on you. Try to provide a lucid, well thought out, and proper post, and perhaps if my balls don't itch, I'll reply. The ball is in your court. Don't say I didn't caution you.

[Kalan]

I have the 1st Lewis fight, and no McCall doesn't look like some unbelievable boxer with a master plan before the KO. He looks like a guy that throws a well timed shot, and got the result he was hoping for.

EVERYBODY has the 1st Lewis-McCall fight and can study it as they want... It's available on YouTube....It's a classic.

I don't know what an unbelievable boxer with a master plan is supposed to look like to you... McCall doesn't ordinarily look that ready to fight... After a few week with Steward he was pumped... He easily won the 1st round and got punches on Lewis that I never saw Holyfield get on LL... Nice stand up jabs Ollie never threw that well before... moved his head on defense better.. He was never a left hooker but got very nice hooks on Lewis... got right hand counters inside to the body and a good right hand to the head over the jab... 1st round was his.

Emanuel Steward warned everybody and the HBO crew.... He told 'em McCall would confuse Lewis badly and said "Lewis is easily confused." ... Lewis was the dominant Heavyweight Champion of the World - what did he see??? Steward was one of those guys - he just watched you and picked things out that nobody else saw.

Ollie didn't always have that much faith and confidence in himself... but emotionally, he was ready to jump out of that arena he was so revved up... I don't think he was manic depressive... He was under control, but his mental focus was unreal... It's dopamine... His neurotransmitters were performing at a high rate... exactly what you want.

Steward got Ollie psyched up. He's a tremendous motivator.. I never saw McCall anything close to that sharp in another fight.. If he could bottle that he would certainly land on Bowe... Tyson and Holyfield would be in reach.

Lewis immediately went after Steward after that fight... That's super tough decision for Steward... I always wondered what would have happened had Manny stuck with the Atomic Bull.

[oogiebe]

Lewis won the first round on 2 of three scorecards. With the third tied. I saw that fight many times and to me it looked like a lackadaisical Lewis got caught cold.

[Kalan]

The commentators gave the 1st round to McCall because he won it.... I guess they were watching the fight... Anybody who scored that first round for Lewis (if they're a judge) wasn't being honest and wanted Lewis to win.

But sometimes you needed a KO to win if you're an American fighting in England in those days.

[oogiebe]

The commentators gave the 1st round to McCall because he won it.... I guess they were watching the fight... Anybody who scored that first round for Lewis (if they're a judge) wasn't being honest and wanted Lewis to win.

But sometimes you needed a KO to win if you're an American fighting in England in those days.

Oh yes, I forgot...any disagreement with your view is idiotic or total lies. You are an enigma Kalan.

[oogiebe]

Getting back to the thread...

Assuming a mentally stable McCall:
1. Mike Tyson - Tyson by mid round KO. Too quick; too strong; too schooled.

2. Evander Holyfield - Tough fight, Holyfield grinds out a decision. Both guys take a pounding.

3. Riddick Bowe - Bowe late knockout after getting hammered several times.

[Kalan]

I suggest you watch Lewis-McCall 1 yourself.... If you have an objective mind you'll see what happened.

[oogiebe]

I suggest you watch the fight yourself.... If you have an objective mind you'll see what was happening.

Ok, fair enough. I'll watch again. (Someone else made me do that...for Klitchko Joshua.)

[oogiebe]

Ok...first round scoring is meaningless. Looks like McCall came in well schooled on one thing. Counter Right hand. He was obviously looking for that every time Lewis even cocked his right. It was not lucky punch...it was a great strategy. It goes to figure why Lewis sought out Stewart after this fight. No one was really winning, but strategically, McCall executed that strategy perfectly.

[Kalan]

SCHOOLED IN ONE THING?????

Maybe you should listen to the commentators if you're not seeing punches maybe you're not processing what happened because you're mind is dead set against it.... They commentated on the variety of punches McCall landed.

McCall was NOT sitting on his right hand... he was jabbing, hooking, going to the body, and generally outscoring Lewis in the 1st round... He did also score with a good right hand counter... but he wasn't focused on it.

[oogiebe]

Maybe you should listen to the commentators if you're not seeing punches maybe you're not processing what happened because you're mind is dead set against it.... They commentated on the variety of punches McCall landed.

McCall was NOT sitting on his right hand... he was jabbing, hooking, going to the body, and generally outscoring Lewis in the 1st round... He did also score with a good right hand counter... but he wasn't focused on it.

You are right. He looked good, AND the strategy was clear. I'm not arguing. I admit I probably saw that fight as a Lewis fan and not objectively.

[gilgamesh]

I have the 1st Lewis fight, and no McCall doesn't look like some unbelievable boxer with a master plan before the KO. He looks like a guy that throws a well timed shot, and got the result he was hoping for.

EVERYBODY has the 1st Lewis-McCall fight and can study it as they want... It's available on YouTube....It's a classic.

I don't know what an unbelievable boxer with a master plan is supposed to look like to you... McCall doesn't ordinarily look that ready to fight... After a few week with Steward he was pumped... He easily won the 1st round and got punches on Lewis that I never saw Holyfield get on LL... Nice stand up jabs Ollie never threw that well before... moved his head on defense better.. He was never a left hooker but got very nice hooks on Lewis... got right hand counters inside to the body and a good right hand to the head over the jab... 1st round was his.

Emanuel Steward warned everybody and the HBO crew.... He told 'em McCall would confuse Lewis badly and said "Lewis is easily confused." ... Lewis was the dominant Heavyweight Champion of the World - what did he see??? Steward was one of those guys - he just watched you and picked things out that nobody else saw.

You're showing that you've been dishonest about your age again. If you were alive for the Lennox Lewis vs Oliver McCall 1 fight you'd know that Lennox Lewis wasn't "The Dominant Heavyweight Champion of the World" at that time. He was a contender with a belt.

He didn't really gain recognition as THE MAN at Heavyweight until the win over Holyfield years later.

[Kalan]

You're showing that you've been dishonest about your age again. If you were alive for the Lennox Lewis vs Oliver McCall 1 fight you'd know that Lennox Lewis wasn't "The Dominant Heavyweight Champion of the World"

It's rather stupid to smear me as a liar just because you don't agree that Lennox Lewis was the dominant Heavyweight Champion when he faced Oliver McCall... Lewis crushed Razor Ruddock 2 years earlier to become mandatory challenger to Riddick Bowe... Cowardly Bowe was stripped of the WBC belt for refusing to fight Lewis... Lewis was the only top Heavyweight who was undefeated besides Moorer, and I'll get to him... Holyfield had been ducking Lewis for a long time.

Bowe lost his WBA and IBF belt to Holyfield and hadn't had a win since... Holyfield lost the WBA and IBF Titles to Michael Moorer and hadn't had a win since.... Moorer fought as a Light Heavyweight up to 1991, and was preparing for a super soft Title Defense against 45-year-old George Foreman, who hadn't won a fight in almost 2 years.

That's the top Heavyweight Champions of the time... Only Lewis was undefeated and calling out the others... Moorer was considered lucky to catch Holyfield at a time where Evander was suffering poor health.

[Boxing Writer]

I have the 1st Lewis fight, and no McCall doesn't look like some unbelievable boxer with a master plan before the KO. He looks like a guy that throws a well timed shot, and got the result he was hoping for.

EVERYBODY has the 1st Lewis-McCall fight and can study it as they want... It's available on YouTube....It's a classic.

I don't know what an unbelievable boxer with a master plan is supposed to look like to you... McCall doesn't ordinarily look that ready to fight... After a few week with Steward he was pumped... He easily won the 1st round and got punches on Lewis that I never saw Holyfield get on LL...

That's because Lennox Lewis improved his defensive skills immensively from 1994 to 1999 under Steward tutelage.

[Ambling Alp II]

I have the 1st Lewis fight, and no McCall doesn't look like some unbelievable boxer with a master plan before the KO. He looks like a guy that throws a well timed shot, and got the result he was hoping for.

EVERYBODY has the 1st Lewis-McCall fight and can study it as they want... It's available on YouTube....It's a classic.

I don't know what an unbelievable boxer with a master plan is supposed to look like to you... McCall doesn't ordinarily look that ready to fight... After a few week with Steward he was pumped... He easily won the 1st round and got punches on Lewis that I never saw Holyfield get on LL... Nice stand up jabs Ollie never threw that well before... moved his head on defense better.. He was never a left hooker but got very nice hooks on Lewis... got right hand counters inside to the body and a good right hand to the head over the jab... 1st round was his.

Emanuel Steward warned everybody and the HBO crew.... He told 'em McCall would confuse Lewis badly and said "Lewis is easily confused." ... Lewis was the dominant Heavyweight Champion of the World - what did he see??? Steward was one of those guys - he just watched you and picked things out that nobody else saw.

You're showing that you've been dishonest about your age again. If you were alive for the Lennox Lewis vs Oliver McCall 1 fight you'd know that Lennox Lewis wasn't "The Dominant Heavyweight Champion of the World" at that time. He was a contender with a belt.

He didn't really gain recognition as THE MAN at Heavyweight until the win over Holyfield years later.

Someone could have been alive at the time and now think that Lewis was the dominant heavyweight in the world at the time of the premature stoppage of the first McCall-Lewis fight.
However, someone who was actually following the sport at the time would not have made that claim.

[gilgamesh]

You're showing that you've been dishonest about your age again. If you were alive for the Lennox Lewis vs Oliver McCall 1 fight you'd know that Lennox Lewis wasn't "The Dominant Heavyweight Champion of the World"

It's rather stupid to smear me as a liar just because you don't agree that Lennox Lewis was the dominant Heavyweight Champion when he faced Oliver McCall... Lewis crushed Razor Ruddock 2 years earlier to become mandatory challenger to Riddick Bowe... Cowardly Bowe was stripped of the WBC belt for refusing to fight Lewis... Lewis was the only top Heavyweight who was undefeated besides Moorer, and I'll get to him... Holyfield had been ducking Lewis for a long time.

Bowe lost his WBA and IBF belt to Holyfield and hadn't had a win since... Holyfield lost the WBA and IBF Titles to Michael Moorer and hadn't had a win since.... Moorer fought as a Light Heavyweight up to 1991, and was preparing for a super soft Title Defense against 45-year-old George Foreman, who hadn't won a fight in almost 2 years.

That's the top Heavyweight Champions of the time... Only Lewis was undefeated and calling out the others... Moorer was considered lucky to catch Holyfield at a time where Evander was suffering poor health.

Being undefeated is not the end all, be all. It doesn't necessarily automatically make you THE MAN. Fighting, and beating the best makes you THE MAN. Having a nice shiny record doesn't.

Lennox was certainly one of the top Heavyweights at that time, but he wasn't the #1 guy to beat. Or at least he wasn't perceived that way by the Boxing Public.

[gilgamesh]

EVERYBODY has the 1st Lewis-McCall fight and can study it as they want... It's available on YouTube....It's a classic.

I don't know what an unbelievable boxer with a master plan is supposed to look like to you... McCall doesn't ordinarily look that ready to fight... After a few week with Steward he was pumped... He easily won the 1st round and got punches on Lewis that I never saw Holyfield get on LL... Nice stand up jabs Ollie never threw that well before... moved his head on defense better.. He was never a left hooker but got very nice hooks on Lewis... got right hand counters inside to the body and a good right hand to the head over the jab... 1st round was his.

Emanuel Steward warned everybody and the HBO crew.... He told 'em McCall would confuse Lewis badly and said "Lewis is easily confused." ... Lewis was the dominant Heavyweight Champion of the World - what did he see??? Steward was one of those guys - he just watched you and picked things out that nobody else saw.

You're showing that you've been dishonest about your age again. If you were alive for the Lennox Lewis vs Oliver McCall 1 fight you'd know that Lennox Lewis wasn't "The Dominant Heavyweight Champion of the World" at that time. He was a contender with a belt.

He didn't really gain recognition as THE MAN at Heavyweight until the win over Holyfield years later.

Someone could have been alive at the time and now think that Lewis was the dominant heavyweight in the world at the time of the premature stoppage of the first McCall-Lewis fight.
However, someone who was actually following the sport at the time would not have made that claim.

Or you could've just simply studied the sport a little bit and figured these things out. I wasn't watching Boxing back in 1994, but I know the Boxing scene in 1994 pretty well because I've read up on it, and seen many fights from that era.

Still though I think the words here from Kalan show that either

A. He wasn't watching Boxing in 1994

B. Wasn't alive in 1994

or C. Tends to write revisionist history and pretend things were a different way than they were.

He's already shown a tendency toward C, but perhaps A or B could be a sympton of C.

[Kalan]

EVERYBODY has the 1st Lewis-McCall fight and can study it as they want... It's available on YouTube....It's a classic.

I don't know what an unbelievable boxer with a master plan is supposed to look like to you... McCall doesn't ordinarily look that ready to fight... After a few week with Steward he was pumped... He easily won the 1st round and got punches on Lewis that I never saw Holyfield get on LL... Nice stand up jabs Ollie never threw that well before... moved his head on defense better.. He was never a left hooker but got very nice hooks on Lewis... got right hand counters inside to the body and a good right hand to the head over the jab... 1st round was his.

Emanuel Steward warned everybody and the HBO crew.... He told 'em McCall would confuse Lewis badly and said "Lewis is easily confused." ... Lewis was the dominant Heavyweight Champion of the World - what did he see??? Steward was one of those guys - he just watched you and picked things out that nobody else saw.

You're showing that you've been dishonest about your age again. If you were alive for the Lennox Lewis vs Oliver McCall 1 fight you'd know that Lennox Lewis wasn't "The Dominant Heavyweight Champion of the World" at that time. He was a contender with a belt.

He didn't really gain recognition as THE MAN at Heavyweight until the win over Holyfield years later.

Someone could have been alive at the time and now think that Lewis was the dominant heavyweight in the world at the time of the premature stoppage of the first McCall-Lewis fight.
However, someone who was actually following the sport at the time would not have made that claim.

You didn't say WHY he wouldn't... Lewis was undefeated and tried to get fights with Bowe, Tyson, Holyfield, and Moorer without success... They knew they would get beaten... Bowe was beaten... Tyson wasn't fighting anyone... Holyfield was beaten. Moorer was a 1-fight wonder.

Who was left??? ..... Lewis was the man when McCall beat him.

[oogiebe]

You're showing that you've been dishonest about your age again. If you were alive for the Lennox Lewis vs Oliver McCall 1 fight you'd know that Lennox Lewis wasn't "The Dominant Heavyweight Champion of the World" at that time. He was a contender with a belt.

He didn't really gain recognition as THE MAN at Heavyweight until the win over Holyfield years later.

Someone could have been alive at the time and now think that Lewis was the dominant heavyweight in the world at the time of the premature stoppage of the first McCall-Lewis fight.
However, someone who was actually following the sport at the time would not have made that claim.

You didn't say WHY he wouldn't... Lewis was undefeated and tried to get fights with Bowe, Tyson, Holyfield, and Moorer without success... They knew they would get beaten... Bowe was beaten... Tyson wasn't fighting anyone... Holyfield was beaten. Moorer was a 1-fight wonder.

Who was left??? ..... Lewis was the man when McCall beat him.

I re-watched the fight yesterday. McCall was more prepared in that fight then I've ever seen him. Until yesterday, I didn't remember it that way. It was no lucky punch and I'm a huge Lewis fan. If McCall would have been THAT fighter throughout his career, he'd have been tough for anyone. But, none of that happened. It was very different than when I watched it as Lewis fan.

[gilgamesh]

One thing I found interesting about the two McCall vs Lewis fights. Obviously everyone remembers McCall's infamous emotional breakdown in the 2nd fight, but he damn near looks like he's having a near meltdown prior to the start of the 1st fight with Lewis as well. I can't tell if the look is "He's scared", "He's so worked up he's damn near in tears" or what. I guess he was just a really high strung guy, but go back, and look at McCall as he's entering the ring, and standing there in the Intros for the 1st Lewis fight.

I always found that a bit amusing.

[oogiebe]

One thing I found interesting about the two McCall vs Lewis fights. Obviously everyone remembers McCall's infamous emotional breakdown in the 2nd fight, but he damn near looks like he's having a near meltdown prior to the start of the 1st fight with Lewis as well. I can't tell if the look is "He's scared", "He's so worked up he's damn near in tears" or what. I guess he was just a really high strung guy, but go back, and look at McCall as he's entering the ring, and standing there in the Intros for the 1st Lewis fight.

I always found that a bit amusing.

Based on his performance, I think Kalan was r...r...r...r...right about his being amped up as well as McCall's overall performance. Watch it again as I did without the volume. It was a very determined and prepared McCall.