BoxRec

Kalan wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 03:32

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Apr 2018, 16:43

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑10 Apr 2018, 16:41

Foreman and Shavers?

They're 10's

You know damned well Shavers wasn't a 10...

Shavers tried to trade with Lyle, Quarry, and Holmes---but he got knocked out.... He tried to trade with 2nd raters Stander, Cobb, and Mercado---but he got knocked out... He tried to KO 3rd rater Bob Stallings, who lost most of his fights and got knocked out mucho times.. It didn't work... He loaded up his best swings for all those guys and got beat every time.

You know damned well McCall wasn't a 5... He knocked out 3 Heavyweight Champions... He was a big Heavyweight.

He was the 1st man who ever knocked Lennox Lewis out ... The ONLY MAN EVER to knock 6'7" X 240 Henry Akinwande out and I think you'll agree it was a lot better than the Lewis shothttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKKALuwnbHM

McCall was 38 when he nailed Akinwande on the chin... McCall had a world of problems including severe crack cocaine addiction and many emotional illnesses that he suffered from for many years... But on a given night when he had his head on straight he could knock anybody out... It wasn't often, but it was gold.
http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/on-this ... nox-lewis/

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 13:55

Kalan wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 03:32

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Apr 2018, 16:43

They're 10's

You know damned well Shavers wasn't a 10...

Shavers tried to trade with Lyle, Quarry, and Holmes---but he got knocked out.... He tried to trade with 2nd raters Stander, Cobb, and Mercado---but he got knocked out... He tried to KO 3rd rater Bob Stallings, who lost most of his fights and got knocked out mucho times.. It didn't work... He loaded up his best swings for all those guys and got beat every time.

You know damned well McCall wasn't a 5... He knocked out 3 Heavyweight Champions... He was a big Heavyweight.

He was the 1st man who ever knocked Lennox Lewis out ... The ONLY MAN EVER to knock 6'7" X 240 Henry Akinwande out and I think you'll agree it was a lot better than the Lewis shothttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKKALuwnbHM

McCall was 38 when he nailed Akinwande on the chin... McCall had a world of problems including severe crack cocaine addiction and many emotional illnesses that he suffered from for many years... But on a given night when he had his head on straight he could knock anybody out... It wasn't often, but it was gold.
http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/on-this ... nox-lewis/

I know what I know and I said what I said.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 14:07 Kalan can't wrap his head around that Big Punching Power doesn't in and of itself win you all of your fights.

Shavers could punch as hard as anybody, but his flaws in being able to take a punch back...and his mediocre stamina is what got him beat so often.

For the first 4 or 5 rounds you BETTER watch out for that right hand.

oogiebe wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 14:09 However; McCall at a five doesn't sound right. Holyfield at 7 doesn't either.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 14:14

oogiebe wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 14:09 However; McCall at a five doesn't sound right. Holyfield at 7 doesn't either.

Sounds right to me.

McCall...is known for his chin not his punch. He has 37 KO wins to his credit which is nothing to scoff at, but he couldn't knock out a much older Larry Holmes. His biggest KO wins are over Lennox and Maskaev neither of whom are known as iron jawed guys.

I'm not saying he punched like a lily or something, I'm just saying there are a lot of guys in the history of the division that punched harder.

If you wanna upgrade him to a 6 I wouldn't disagree too strongly, but beyond that I just don't see it.

As for Holyfield. 44 wins, 29 KO's...couldn't knock out John Ruiz, couldn't knock out George Foreman when he was in his 40's, couldn't knock out Larry Holmes,

Holyfield is an excellent fighter, but he always struck me more as a swarmer/aggressor first and foremost than a big puncher. Though he could move and box well too. He usually wore guys down and knocked 'em out after having beaten on 'em for a while. He has a few big one punch KO's like notably the Buster Douglas title win, but again there are a lot of guys I've seen hit harder than him.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 14:24 Yeah maybe.

Like McCall, I mean he clearly can punch, and it's not like he's a weakling or anything but there are a lot of bigger hitters historically...hell even in his own time he wasn't "The Puncher" of the division. He's just a damn fine fighter.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 14:54 Povetkin's probably between a 6.5 and a 7 overall.

Did somebody say a 9.5? You're dreaming.

That's a number reserved for the power punching legends of the sport. Yes, Shavers, Foreman.

When you think of those 2, you think of mind-numbing power.

When you think of Povetkin, boxing skills come to mind first, not power.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 14:54 Povetkin's probably between a 6.5 and a 7 overall.

Did somebody say a 9.5? You're dreaming.

That's a number reserved for the power punching legends of the sport. Yes, Shavers, Foreman.

When you think of those 2, you think of mind-numbing power.

When you think of Povetkin, boxing skills come to mind first, not power.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 14:14

oogiebe wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 14:09 However; McCall at a five doesn't sound right. Holyfield at 7 doesn't either.

As for Holyfield. 44 wins, 29 KO's...couldn't knock out John Ruiz, couldn't knock out George Foreman when he was in his 40's, couldn't knock out Larry Holmes,

gregor wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 15:19

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 14:14

oogiebe wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 14:09 However; McCall at a five doesn't sound right. Holyfield at 7 doesn't either.

As for Holyfield. 44 wins, 29 KO's...couldn't knock out John Ruiz, couldn't knock out George Foreman when he was in his 40's, couldn't knock out Larry Holmes,

That is a bit harsh for Holy. If you are counting numbers, take into account he competed for CW belt with only 11 fights. At this point of career other fighters are usually still fighting tomato cans (and getting easy KO wins).

Did anyone (but Tyson) knock Larry during his whole career? Did anyone stopped Foreman when he was in his 40's? Even Ruiz was also KO'd only two times... one time at the end of his career, and another before he turned to wrestling.

Holy was the only one to knock down prime Mercer (40+ version who fought Wlad was not prime). Also the first one to knock down Bowe. The second one to stop Tyson.

gregor wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 15:19

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 14:14

oogiebe wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 14:09 However; McCall at a five doesn't sound right. Holyfield at 7 doesn't either.

As for Holyfield. 44 wins, 29 KO's...couldn't knock out John Ruiz, couldn't knock out George Foreman when he was in his 40's, couldn't knock out Larry Holmes,

That is a bit harsh for Holy. If you are counting numbers, take into account he competed for CW belt with only 11 fights. At this point of career other fighters are usually still fighting tomato cans (and getting easy KO wins).

Did anyone (but Tyson) knock Larry during his whole career? Did anyone stopped Foreman when he was in his 40's? Even Ruiz was also KO'd only two times... one time at the end of his career, and another before he turned to wrestling.

Holy was the only one to knock down prime Mercer (40+ version who fought Wlad was not prime). Also the first one to knock down Bowe. The second one to stop Tyson.

oogiebe wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 15:21

gregor wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 15:19

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 14:14
As for Holyfield. 44 wins, 29 KO's...couldn't knock out John Ruiz, couldn't knock out George Foreman when he was in his 40's, couldn't knock out Larry Holmes,

That is a bit harsh for Holy. If you are counting numbers, take into account he competed for CW belt with only 11 fights. At this point of career other fighters are usually still fighting tomato cans (and getting easy KO wins).

Did anyone (but Tyson) knock Larry during his whole career? Did anyone stopped Foreman when he was in his 40's? Even Ruiz was also KO'd only two times... one time at the end of his career, and another before he turned to wrestling.

Holy was the only one to knock down prime Mercer (40+ version who fought Wlad was not prime). Also the first one to knock down Bowe. The second one to stop Tyson.

His power doesn't compete with the rest of the list. He is an accumulation KO man with a few exceptions. I love the Real Deal, but he had CW power in the HW division. His heart and toughness were his gifts.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 15:22

oogiebe wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 15:21

gregor wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 15:19
That is a bit harsh for Holy. If you are counting numbers, take into account he competed for CW belt with only 11 fights. At this point of career other fighters are usually still fighting tomato cans (and getting easy KO wins).

Did anyone (but Tyson) knock Larry during his whole career? Did anyone stopped Foreman when he was in his 40's? Even Ruiz was also KO'd only two times... one time at the end of his career, and another before he turned to wrestling.

Holy was the only one to knock down prime Mercer (40+ version who fought Wlad was not prime). Also the first one to knock down Bowe. The second one to stop Tyson.

His power doesn't compete with the rest of the list. He is an accumulation KO man with a few exceptions. I love the Real Deal, but he had CW power in the HW division. His heart and toughness were his gifts.

He was a very skilled boxer too. Though he was very exciting and often slugged it out with his opponents he was certainly capable of Boxing and moving when he needed to, and did it well.