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Enlightened-One wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 04:33

apollo creed wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 03:58 Ok probably at this stage Jermall would beat old Golovkin but if I remember corectly Golovkin had to fight a lot of guys till he got to Canelo.

First, I think Jermall should beat a top guy like Jacobs to build his name more.

Who did GGG beat in order to gain the WBC title?

Who did GGG beat to capture the WBA title?

If the same set of people who previously complained about the big names in the 160lbs division ducking GGG, why are they now supporting the notion that Golovkin should start ducking others?

Best Coast wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 01:17

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 04:33

apollo creed wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 03:58 Ok probably at this stage Jermall would beat old Golovkin but if I remember corectly Golovkin had to fight a lot of guys till he got to Canelo.

First, I think Jermall should beat a top guy like Jacobs to build his name more.

Who did GGG beat in order to gain the WBC title?

Who did GGG beat to capture the WBA title?

If the same set of people who previously complained about the big names in the 160lbs division ducking GGG, why are they now supporting the notion that Golovkin should start ducking others?

Excellent point!!

GGG is getting a pass from a lot of people. He seems to be developing into something of a duckmeister himself.

I think the fighter with the best chance of beating GGG shouldnt have to jump through hoops to get a shot and that fighter is clearly Jermall Charlo!!

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 11:15

jujigatame wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 10:48 Canelo rematch aside, nobody is more deserving of a shot at GGG than Charlo is.

At 160, Charlo has done no more than Murata or Derevyanchenko. I'd argue both of those have achieved more at the weight, with Heiland being a cripple when Charlo beat him.

Saunders and Jacobs are way ahead.

I hope Canelo gets frozen out, unless he submits to genuine 365 Olympic style testing. Not going to happen though.

In order:

Saunders
Jacobs
Murata
Derevyanchenko
Charlo

Charlo needs to beat one of the names above him, otherwise he'd be jumping the queue.

jamamb wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 02:23 i think johnsons a bit better then pitiful hugo, but overall its true sergey hasnt done a hell of a lot

Heretic wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 02:57 The same old story...

If GGG does not fight Charlo now then he is ducking. If he does and beats him people will say that Charlo has beaten no one and didn't deserve a shot.

How about Charlo beats few top 10 names at the weight first and then gets deserved shot?

Looking good against average opposition should not lead to title shots. Beating other good or great challengers should.

jamamb wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 02:50 hugo didnt win a round before being knocked out by sulecki and was pitiful. johnson was way ahead of stevens. i think johnson is slightly better but neithers that good.clearly charlo has a deeper resume overall

khtrovs hype was over by that point btw, he was like 30 seconds off losing to nick brinson shortly before

jamamb wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 03:01 btw best coast, im still interested in why charlo clearly has a better chance of beating ggg then any other mw, i think hes got a good chance (ggg to mes always been overrated) but why is it so clearly better then everyone elses, like canelo, jacobs, saunders, andrade, etc

please dont mention suleckis bitch in your answer

personally i feel multiple guys would beat ggg now, not sure id have charlo at clear 1 though

jamamb wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 03:23 khytrov looked pretty freakin explosive vs low level comp early on, he got hype from that. but then he started to really look unimpressive, was being taken the distance, almost lost to brinson, then finally got beaten. his hype had gradually faded.. i dont think him being ukranian was that big of a deal although it couldve been a part

Best Coast wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 02:18

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 11:15

jujigatame wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 10:48 Canelo rematch aside, nobody is more deserving of a shot at GGG than Charlo is.

At 160, Charlo has done no more than Murata or Derevyanchenko. I'd argue both of those have achieved more at the weight, with Heiland being a cripple when Charlo beat him.

Saunders and Jacobs are way ahead.

I hope Canelo gets frozen out, unless he submits to genuine 365 Olympic style testing. Not going to happen though.

In order:

Saunders
Jacobs
Murata
Derevyanchenko
Charlo

Charlo needs to beat one of the names above him, otherwise he'd be jumping the queue.

Derevyanchenko is getting way too much respect for a very limited pro resume. His best win came over Tureano Johnson who is clearly nothing special. In fact Hugo Centeno is as good or better than Johnson and Sergei's other wins are not nearly as good as Jermall's wins at 154 (Trout, Williams).

ANYONE feel free to tell me what's so impressive for Derevyan's resume other than the Tureano Johnson win,

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/691996

I honestly think Derevyan is getting so much respect because of his Ukrainian pedigree. He is riding the coattails of his more accomplished Ukrainian countrymen: Lomachenko, Usyk, Gvozdyk, Dalakian, etc but has done considerably LESS than any of them.

apollo creed wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 11:39 Bottom line is Jermall should fight some top guys like Jacobs or Andrade to prove himself at 160 lbs.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 11:59

apollo creed wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 11:39 Bottom line is Jermall should fight some top guys like Jacobs or Andrade to prove himself at 160 lbs.

What type of opponents did the likes of the following unranked fighters beat in order to “prove” their worth at 160lbs in order to gain a shot at GGG’s title(s): Willie Monroe Jr, Osumanu Adama, Nobuhiro Ishida, Gabriel Rosado, Makoto Fuchigami, Lajuan Simon, Kassim Ouma and Vanes Martirosyan?

Who did GGG “prove” himself against prior to capturing the WBA title?

Jermall solidified his position as the WBC's mandatory challenger by stopping Centeno Jr. and Heiland in WBC-mandated bouts.

He’s a former world champion, GGG’s mandatory challenger, he’s only 27 years of age, he’s unbeaten, he’s a physically large 160lb-er and also a fairly big puncher. He has earned the right to challenge GGG for his WBC title.

Excluding GGG from the list, Charlo is rated as a top-five middleweight according to both The RING and ESPN. Charlo has also been the WBC’s highest ranked challenger for almost a year!

Why are you demanding that Charlo has to overcome all sorts of hurdles in order to gain a shot at GGG when fighters like Willie Monroe Jr, Osumanu Adama, Nobuhiro Ishida, Gabriel Rosado, Makoto Fuchigami, Lajuan Simon, Kassim Ouma and Vanes Martirosyan didn’t have to?

Double-standards, perhaps?

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 12:11 EO, you keep proving that you are an idiot. You are comparing times when the division was weak and all top prospective opponents were ducking GGG with current situation which is absolutely different. He HAD to fight those weak opponents, because Martinez, Sturm, Quillin, etc. were ducking him. Now when division is stronger and GGG has aged, seems beatable and warrants higher purses than a few years ago, everybody wants him, so Charlo has to get in line.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 12:17 At some point within the next twelve months, GGG will eventually be forced to make a difficult decision (assuming he successfully overcomes Martirosyan and Canelo), which is to either defend his WBC title by facing his mandatory challenger, Jermall Charlo, or vacate his crown.

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 12:26

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 12:17 At some point within the next twelve months, GGG will eventually be forced to make a difficult decision (assuming he successfully overcomes Martirosyan and Canelo), which is to either defend his WBC title by facing his mandatory challenger, Jermall Charlo, or vacate his crown.

As per his agreement he has with the WBC, WBA and IBF, he will be permitted to fight Martirosyan, Canelo, Derevyanchenko and possibly also Saunders (as it would be a unification) before he will be ordered to fight Charlo. I'm not sure where the next WBA mandatory falls in the queue either. Whoever that is may also come before Charlo.

Charlo's best shot at getting Golovkin, would be to lure Derevyanchenko into the ring and try and leapfrog him to be IBF mandatory.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 12:31

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 12:26

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 12:17 At some point within the next twelve months, GGG will eventually be forced to make a difficult decision (assuming he successfully overcomes Martirosyan and Canelo), which is to either defend his WBC title by facing his mandatory challenger, Jermall Charlo, or vacate his crown.

As per his agreement he has with the WBC, WBA and IBF, he will be permitted to fight Martirosyan, Canelo, Derevyanchenko and possibly also Saunders (as it would be a unification) before he will be ordered to fight Charlo. I'm not sure where the next WBA mandatory falls in the queue either. Whoever that is may also come before Charlo.

Charlo's best shot at getting Golovkin, would be to lure Derevyanchenko into the ring and try and leapfrog him to be IBF mandatory.

Has the IBF sanctioned Martirosyan yet?

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 13:17 Stripping Golovkin and having Derevo fight Canelo for the title would be beneficial for IBF.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 12:11 EO, you keep proving that you are an idiot. You are comparing times when the division was weak and all top prospective opponents were ducking GGG with current situation which is absolutely different. He HAD to fight those weak opponents, because Martinez, Sturm, Quillin, etc. were ducking him. Now when division is stronger and GGG has aged, seems beatable and warrants higher purses than a few years ago, everybody wants him, so Charlo has to get in line.