BoxRec

candyslim wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 08:43 Karl Marx would be proud of you Greg

..can't think of a better praise ..you made my day, Candy

actjac wrote: ↑30 Apr 2018, 16:15 The separation of the tiers are quite stark.

Elites:
Wilder, Joshua, Fury

Tier 2:
Ortiz, Whyte, Povetkin, Parker, Usyk

Level 3:
Ruiz Jr., Hughie, Miller, Zhilei,, Rivas, Breazeale, Pulev

Tier 4:
Kyotaro, Spong, Schwarz,, Wallin, Kabayel, Junlong, Bryan

Though this entire list would be at the top of any other era the separation here is enough that the lower level probably cannot compete with the next tier group up.

Who is Zhilei?

A Heavyweight Era is only as good as it's activity.

Journeymen constantly fighting each other is more exciting than elites sitting on their ass. Sorry Greg for the terminology.

Stuarty wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 08:29

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 08:25 how can anybody guage usyk yet....ridiculous

Exactly. He's probably technically better than what's there at the moment but he doesn't have the power to keep the bigger guys off him IMO. I'm a fan but I don't think he's big enough to make a massive impact.

another adamek, in fact unlikely to do as well, adamek had one hell of a chin.

Anyone who thinks today's heavyweights are the best ever was born 12 years ago.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 10:25

Stuarty wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 08:29

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 08:25 how can anybody guage usyk yet....ridiculous

Exactly. He's probably technically better than what's there at the moment but he doesn't have the power to keep the bigger guys off him IMO. I'm a fan but I don't think he's big enough to make a massive impact.

another adamek, in fact unlikely to do as well, adamek had one hell of a chin.

Similar things could have been said about Evander Holyfield as he moved up from Cruiserweight. . . . Usyk's credentials are better than Evander's were at this point.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 10:25

Stuarty wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 08:29

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 08:25 how can anybody guage usyk yet....ridiculous

Exactly. He's probably technically better than what's there at the moment but he doesn't have the power to keep the bigger guys off him IMO. I'm a fan but I don't think he's big enough to make a massive impact.

another adamek, in fact unlikely to do as well, adamek had one hell of a chin.

I think he's a lot more skilled than Adamek but whether he has the chin or not remains to be seen. Gassiev will surely test it when they meet in the WBSS final That dude carries a fair old clout!

Heavyweights in Holyfield's era were considerably smaller than those today. Usyk will be giving away considerably more size than Evander did.

in world series of boxing fights usyk schooled joe joyce and won every round vs 3 time world shw amateur champ magomedrasul, who has wins over guys like joshua, yoka, and savon (a brutal ktfo). he also blitzed 20-0 pro matteo magundo, who fought poor opponents as a pro although did ko sean turner in wsb (turner ko'd gjerjag and wasnt close to being even dropped by hrgovic)

im thinking, usyk is good enough where hed at least make a legit hw contender, but i do not at all see him beating the likes of aj or wilder. he lacks power and size and isnt slick enough to be an elite pro hw imo. hes actually just as much as a workrate-boxer as he is some slickster

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 13:10 Heavyweights in Holyfield's era were considerably smaller than those today. Usyk will be giving away considerably more size than Evander did.

Not to mention the fact that Holyfield had fantastic boxing skills, footspeed, enough power to keep his opponents busy, the heart of a lion, and a chin like an Anvil.

The only other small heavyweight I can think of who had as many attributes is Marciano, he lacked the speed and skills of Holyfield, but he had insane power for a man of his size.

I would rank Usyk just behind Wilder and Joshua and ahead of Fury at this time.. . . .A monster fight would be Usyk vs Povetkin not only from a skills standpoint but also Russia vs Ukraine.

greg wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 08:50

candyslim wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 08:43 Karl Marx would be proud of you Greg

..can't think of a better praise ..you made my day, Candy

I have to be honest ... I preferred Groucho

I don't know about best HW era ever, but it's the first time since Lewis retired that I have been interested in the division.

candyslim wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 15:54

greg wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 08:50

candyslim wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 08:43 Karl Marx would be proud of you Greg

..can't think of a better praise ..you made my day, Candy

I have to be honest ... I preferred Groucho

Richard by far!

Tony1244 wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 09:12

actjac wrote: ↑30 Apr 2018, 16:15 The separation of the tiers are quite stark.

Elites:
Wilder, Joshua, Fury

Tier 2:
Ortiz, Whyte, Povetkin, Parker, Usyk

Level 3:
Ruiz Jr., Hughie, Miller, Zhilei,, Rivas, Breazeale, Pulev

Tier 4:
Kyotaro, Spong, Schwarz,, Wallin, Kabayel, Junlong, Bryan

Though this entire list would be at the top of any other era the separation here is enough that the lower level probably cannot compete with the next tier group up.

Who is Zhilei?

Chinese Heavyweight. Kabayel and Schwarz would beat him I figure.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 16:00

Tony1244 wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 09:12

actjac wrote: ↑30 Apr 2018, 16:15 The separation of the tiers are quite stark.

Elites:
Wilder, Joshua, Fury

Tier 2:
Ortiz, Whyte, Povetkin, Parker, Usyk

Level 3:
Ruiz Jr., Hughie, Miller, Zhilei,, Rivas, Breazeale, Pulev

Tier 4:
Kyotaro, Spong, Schwarz,, Wallin, Kabayel, Junlong, Bryan

Though this entire list would be at the top of any other era the separation here is enough that the lower level probably cannot compete with the next tier group up.

Who is Zhilei?

Chinese Heavyweight. Kabayel and Schwarz would beat him I figure.

Chinese Heavyweight? That's an oxymoron.

Impractical Poster wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 16:04

gilgamesh wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 16:00

Tony1244 wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 09:12


Who is Zhilei?

Chinese Heavyweight. Kabayel and Schwarz would beat him I figure.

Chinese Heavyweight? That's an oxymoron.

There's more than one of 'em at the moment...or at least there was the last time I looked into it...which admittedly has been at least a year or so.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 09:12
Who is Zhilei?

Zhilei: Former Olympian and one of two unrelated Chinamen who share the family name Zhang. Both are possessing of some moderate talent, but time is no friend of either of them. Zhang Jun Long is 37 IIRC I never know how to describe a someone like him/them - "prospect" sounds absurd for someone 5 years older than Deontay, but he is supposedly aiming high so not a journeyman either.

actjac wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 15:24 I would rank Usyk just behind Wilder and Joshua and ahead of Fury at this time.. . . .A monster fight would be Usyk vs Povetkin not only from a skills standpoint but also Russia vs Ukraine.

I've said the same about Povetkin v Usyk. It would be intriguing but only if it happens soon. Sasha is not getting any younger. Not sure how Usyk copes with a 6' 8" mover with an 85" reach though (assuming Tyson gets back to something close to what he was).

Usyk made a monkey of big Joe but Joe was right there in front of him, relatively static, and ripe for being outboxed and outsmarted. Fury wouldn't be quite so accommodating.

There was a third Chinese heavyweight (more than that but I mean potentially good and/or big enough to generate interest) and that particular oxymoron was 7 feet tall, name of Taishan Dong.

I think he's decided to turn his talents to wrestling or something last I heard.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 10:25

Stuarty wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 08:29

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 08:25 how can anybody guage usyk yet....ridiculous

Exactly. He's probably technically better than what's there at the moment but he doesn't have the power to keep the bigger guys off him IMO. I'm a fan but I don't think he's big enough to make a massive impact.

another adamek, in fact unlikely to do as well, adamek had one hell of a chin.

Adamek was fighting at light heavy. Usyk needs to cut weight to make the cruiser limit. So the size difference is quite big. Bad comparison.

I think Usyk would beat most of the top 15 boxers at the moment. Excluding Joshua and Miller. I think Miller would beat him. Not because of skills but because of bad stylistic mach up. I think Miller will roll over anyone who cant really hurt him.

Usyk and Wilder would be 60 / 40 kind of match were Wilder only has punchers chance to win. He was being outboxed by Szpilka who is very average boxer.

Good summary H.

its a very average era

the level of inactivity is really poor

where exactly in this weird tier structure are we putting Fres Oquendo?

DrDuke wrote: ↑30 Apr 2018, 17:07 The current era is very good, but 70s and 90s were too cool. We'll see, what happens.

At first thought, I'd agree with that!

funso banjo baby wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 17:50 its a very average era

the level of inactivity is really poor

where exactly in this weird tier structure are we putting Fres Oquendo?

He hasn't even fought in like 4 years...he'd have to be like 10th tier...below guys that are 2 or 3 fights in

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 13:10 Heavyweights in Holyfield's era were considerably smaller than those today. Usyk will be giving away considerably more size than Evander did.

I don't think being an inch shorter and 15 pounds lighter in that era means much.