BoxRec

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 15:25 Eubank Smith will be a better fight than Groves Smith would have been. Groves would have just outboxed Smith and possibly KO'd him. Here we have a head on collision. Eubank is going to come for Smith and Smith doesn't really know how to fight any other way than come forward. They aint taking a step back. Should be fireworks while it lasts.

It probably would be better as a spectical but Groves deserves to be there

dirk2686 wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 14:47

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 14:25I agree with there being no point doing a Groves-Eubank again. But Groves vs. Smith is still a good domestic fight.

But yeh, where you said he doesn't have much fights left, he may likely look to other potential fights. DeGale fight isn't as big as it could have been due to his loss to Truax, although he has regained his belt.

I'm not really sure there is that much interest in a Groves DeGale rematch. DeGale has spent the last few years fighting in the middle of the night (for a UK audience), in a few obscure fights, and his one domestic outing was a farce.

Groves is well known thanks to the Froch fights and his recent resurgence. Smith did very good numbers on ITV and was doing well in terms of profile on Sky - certainly more than DeGale would have been doing hidden away on BN in the small hours. I think you could almost sell Groves Smith as a version of Froch Groves, with George taking the role of the experienced operator and Smith being put into something of an acid test.

What numbers did Smiths semi do on ITV? You’re clearly taking the piss now.

Groves did Sky ppv as a 10 fight novice, Froch was travelling the world as wbc champion.... there was no A side. I was at the fight, equal crowd, 20,000. Froch couldn’t fill Nottingham in front of half for Bute (non ppv). Do the maths.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 15:58 Groves did Sky ppv as a 10 fight novice, Froch was travelling the world as wbc champion.... there was no A side. I was at the fight, equal crowd, 20,000. Froch couldn’t fill Nottingham in front of half for Bute (non ppv). Do the maths.

Froch was the A-side in their first fight. He’d sold out the O2 in his fight before against Kessler and headlined PPV. From memory Groves fought on the card - I can’t remember who it was against but I don’t even think it was the co-main event.

Groves v Degale was 2 years prior but Groves really failed to capitalise on the win in the time pre Froch.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 15:58 Groves did Sky ppv as a 10 fight novice, Froch was travelling the world as wbc champion.... there was no A side. I was at the fight, equal crowd, 20,000. Froch couldn’t fill Nottingham in front of half for Bute (non ppv). Do the maths.

Heavy night again Mick?

What would be the scenario you think in terms of bets on this?

I placed a bet on Eubanks Jnr to meet Callum Smith in the final. It was settled as a loser when Groves beat him, but what would Skybet do here?

If wasn’t a double on Eubanks and Smith to both win there semi-finals. It was a finalists bet of Eubanks v Smith.

I’m probably clutching at straws, but just putting the question out there

harry1980 wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 16:38 What would be the scenario you think in terms of bets on this?

I placed a bet on Eubanks Jnr to meet Callum Smith in the final. It was settled as a loser when Groves beat him, but what would Skybet do here?

If wasn’t a double on Eubanks and Smith to both win there semi-finals. It was a finalists bet of Eubanks v Smith.

I’m probably clutching at straws, but just putting the question out there

They'd pay that out mate. Can't really not do. If the fight itself was the final then regardless how it came about it is what it is.

harry1980 wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 16:38 What would be the scenario you think in terms of bets on this?

I placed a bet on Eubanks Jnr to meet Callum Smith in the final. It was settled as a loser when Groves beat him, but what would Skybet do here?

If wasn’t a double on Eubanks and Smith to both win there semi-finals. It was a finalists bet of Eubanks v Smith.

I’m probably clutching at straws, but just putting the question out there

i dont know there exact policys but for me the key is that you werent betting on the semi-final fights, you were betting on whose in the finals. of course it seemed most likely that the finalists would be the semi final winners, but that wasnt the case and of course with this format it was always a possibility it wouldnt be

dirk2686 wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 16:28

mickey1975 wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 15:58 Groves did Sky ppv as a 10 fight novice, Froch was travelling the world as wbc champion.... there was no A side. I was at the fight, equal crowd, 20,000. Froch couldn’t fill Nottingham in front of half for Bute (non ppv). Do the maths.

Heavy night again Mick?

No. Watched Froch-Kessler one on sub BN figures, Abraham, etc.... Are you actually arguing this happened?

mickey1975 wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 17:28

dirk2686 wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 16:28

mickey1975 wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 15:58 Groves did Sky ppv as a 10 fight novice, Froch was travelling the world as wbc champion.... there was no A side. I was at the fight, equal crowd, 20,000. Froch couldn’t fill Nottingham in front of half for Bute (non ppv). Do the maths.

Heavy night again Mick?

No. Watched Froch-Kessler one on sub BN figures, Abraham, etc.... Are you actually arguing this happened?

The first fight with Kessler was 3 1/2 years before the first Groves fight on some obscure PPV channel (was it Primetime or something?!) so I’m not sure what relevance it has.

No-one would argue that Froch troubled to sell when he was promoted by Hennessy but his profile took off when he went to Matchroom.

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 15:25 Eubank Smith will be a better fight than Groves Smith would have been. Groves would have just outboxed Smith and possibly KO'd him. Here we have a head on collision. Eubank is going to come for Smith and Smith doesn't really know how to fight any other way than come forward. They aint taking a step back. Should be fireworks while it lasts.

I'm glad you're here so we don't need to actually watch the fights

maverick23 wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 17:40

mickey1975 wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 17:28

dirk2686 wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 16:28

Heavy night again Mick?

No. Watched Froch-Kessler one on sub BN figures, Abraham, etc.... Are you actually arguing this happened?

The first fight with Kessler was 3 1/2 years before the first Groves fight on some obscure PPV channel (was it Primetime or something?!) so I’m not sure what relevance it has.

No-one would argue that Froch troubled to sell when he was promoted by Hennessy but his profile took off when he went to Matchroom.

Mick got him ITv1 foty for the first world title. Millions more viewers than any Hearn show ever. Fact again. Bbc1, huge launch, The Cobra cartoons, millions more again, fact.... Eddie got him duffed up by Ward. Groves made Froch a star, by accident. Everyone said it was a matchroom mismatch!

I can't imagine that they would seriously try to foist Eubank off as a replacement after the lingering stench of his last performance.

There might be quite a backlash against his being appointed.

Better to have a Smith-Holzken rematch.

But if Groves is unfit to fight in July, I suspect they'll delay it until September, despite what they're saying now.

The concept of a meaningful tournament is flushed down the toilet if Eubank is rewarded with a final's invitation.

And imagine how the tournament's calibre would look if Eubank beat Smith, which is not a possibility beyond reason.

If Groves can't do it why not Eubank?
He is always in exciting fights and is a handful for anyone.

That is massive revisionism. Hearn was often saying before he signed Froch that he was massively underpaid, hence F signing.

The Froch/matchroom relationship was a massive winner for both parties.

Loynesy wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 19:13 That is massive revisionism. Hearn was often saying before he signed Froch that he was massively underpaid, hence F signing.

The Froch/matchroom relationship was a massive winner for both parties.

Did Groves more than play his part in making the rematch huge?

mickey1975 wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 18:53

maverick23 wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 17:40

mickey1975 wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 17:28

No. Watched Froch-Kessler one on sub BN figures, Abraham, etc.... Are you actually arguing this happened?

The first fight with Kessler was 3 1/2 years before the first Groves fight on some obscure PPV channel (was it Primetime or something?!) so I’m not sure what relevance it has.

No-one would argue that Froch troubled to sell when he was promoted by Hennessy but his profile took off when he went to Matchroom.

Mick got him ITv1 foty for the first world title. Millions more viewers than any Hearn show ever. Fact again. Bbc1, huge launch, The Cobra cartoons, millions more again, fact.... Eddie got him duffed up by Ward. Groves made Froch a star, by accident. Everyone said it was a matchroom mismatch!

I’m well aware that Mick got Froch his world title fight on ITV primetime - I was there as I was at most of his fights. As with most of his fights it was a long way from being sold out.

No-one is or would dispute that the amount of views he had were higher on ITV than on Sky but that doesn’t change the fact he wasn’t promoted well.

Eddie joined the team mid Super 6 after Froch had been shown on 24 hour tape delay for Jermain Taylor on ITV and then he languished on random channels for the majority of the rest of the super 6. I was at the Direll fight and it was promoted woefully. The main undercard fight was a TV feed of the Abraham v Taylor fight! Eddie was hardly going to pull him out of the super 6.

I’m not disputing that Groves helped make Froch a star but he was the A-side in PPV fight in his fight previously whilst Groves wasn’t even chief support on the undercard.

I was arguing with your point around there being no A-side in the first fight - Froch clearly was and, as you say, many people thought the first fight was a mis-match.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 19:17

Loynesy wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 19:13 That is massive revisionism. Hearn was often saying before he signed Froch that he was massively underpaid, hence F signing.

The Froch/matchroom relationship was a massive winner for both parties.

Did Groves more than play his part in making the rematch huge?

Of course he did but Froch was headlining PPVs as the A-side in fights and selling out arenas on sky before the Groves rematch.

That’s not the point though Mickey. The second fight was fantastic box office and made both fighters career high purses. Froch retired with a good legacy and Groves had to rebuild, which he has done well, but I don’t see how one can knock Hearn’s Work with Froch.

Loynesy wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 19:30 That’s not the point though Mickey. The second fight was fantastic box office and made both fighters career high purses. Froch retired with a good legacy and Groves had to rebuild, which he has done well, but I don’t see how one can knock Hearn’s Work with Froch.

No, he made a lot of cash. Groves should get credit for it. Kessler 2 was good promotion, after Kessler snapped his 0 on Primetime.... due to the ash cloud! And Kessler wobbled him seriously late on. Ward wanted the rematch, 100% that’s what kills Froch. I’ve literally never seen a man know he’s fucked more than Froch after round 1 against Ward.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 17:28

dirk2686 wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 16:28

mickey1975 wrote: ↑09 May 2018, 15:58 Groves did Sky ppv as a 10 fight novice, Froch was travelling the world as wbc champion.... there was no A side. I was at the fight, equal crowd, 20,000. Froch couldn’t fill Nottingham in front of half for Bute (non ppv). Do the maths.

Heavy night again Mick?

No. Watched Froch-Kessler one on sub BN figures, Abraham, etc.... Are you actually arguing this happened?

So what's your point? That Groves was more popular than Froch? That Hennessy was a better promoter than Hearn? That Froch struggled to sell? This is why I wonder what's actually going on with you; your rambling posts are so weird and you often seem very confused about what you're trying to say.

As others have said Hennessy had Froch on a 24 hour delay for the Taylor fight, hidden away on obscure channels for Abraham and Kessler I, and people barely knew the Ward fight was happening. Hearn got hold of him and had him selling out arenas against Bute and even Mack (I was at both so not sure of your point regarding them not selling), headlong PPV against Kessler and Groves and ultimately doing 80k at Wembley and making a fortune.

Groves played his part but Froch was the clear A side. This is reminiscent of your oddball attempts to say Fury is more popular than Joshua; it's so obviously wrong that it can only be assumed you're on the wind up or pissed.

Hearn had Froch for Ward, live in normal Sky.... I was at both fights mentioned, too, they sold well but weren’t sell outs.

If Groves cant do the final within the timeframe given then I'd much rather they drafted in a replacement rather than put in one of the already beaten semi finalists. I know they have alluded to the fact that there is a rule In place in case of injuries but ideally James Degale could fight Smith with the winner being tied into fight Groves once he returns. Ideal scenario. Don't even think the belts would be a big issue, certainly in the case of Degale and Groves - at this stage of their careers they are looking for the big money fights not fighting mandatory's.

Bigdogsnose wrote: ↑10 May 2018, 02:25 If Groves cant do the final within the timeframe given then I'd much rather they drafted in a replacement rather than put in one of the already beaten semi finalists. I know they have alluded to the fact that there is a rule In place in case of injuries but ideally James Degale could fight Smith with the winner being tied into fight Groves once he returns. Ideal scenario. Don't even think the belts would be a big issue, certainly in the case of Degale and Groves - at this stage of their careers they are looking for the big money fights not fighting mandatory's.

I imagine they probably want someone who's been involved in the tournament to be in the final though.

A good thing about these tournaments is that it largely guarantees good fights. A bad thing is that even if they take place over a short period of time boxing is such that injury/retirement/cancellations/postponements and the arrival of new contenders will generally always chuck a spanner in the works.

Braehmer would make sense to me - but is he reliable enough?