KALAN and his use of facts.

gilgamesh · Post by **gilgamesh** » 11 May 2018, 18:14

You got a good view from your seat then Miles ^<

prewarboxing · Post by **prewarboxing** » 11 May 2018, 18:22

Sure have Buddy!

prewarboxing · Post by **prewarboxing** » 11 May 2018, 18:26

I look out onto the River Swale. This fine River wends it's way down through the Yorkshire Dales, past my house and then on to York, where I used to live. I start my day with a walk along it's banks with my dog, spotting Kingfishers etc. Then I come home and crack on with my research for most of the day. Life ain't bad.

gilgamesh · Post by **gilgamesh** » 11 May 2018, 18:27

prewarboxing wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 18:26 I look out onto the River Swale. This fine River wends it's way down through the Yorkshire Dales, past my house and then on to York, where I used to live. I start my day with a walk along it's banks with my dog, spotting Kingfishers etc. Then I come home and crack on with my research for most of the day. Life ain't bad.

Sounds pretty sweet.

Controversial · Post by **Controversial** » 11 May 2018, 18:30

prewarboxing wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 18:11 Joe Gollob has cropped up here as a subject of interest. I do not know about his record prior to him coming over to the UK in 1938 but I have researched his British record in some detail. During the war he served as a Lance-Corporal in the Canadian Army and he was stationed in the UK for quite a long time.

Here is his UK record as I currently have it :

Oct 17 1938 Len Wickwar(Leicester) LRSF6(8) Empress Hall, Earls Court
source: Boxing 19/10/1938 page 11

Nov 13 1938 Rex Whitney(Wellingborough) LDSQ1(8) Devonshire Club, Hackney
source: Boxing 16/11/1938 page 14

Jan 1 1939 Sid Fitzhugh(Northampton) LRSF6(8) Devonshire Club, Hackney
source: Boxing 04/01/1939 pages 13 and 19

Jan 16 1939 Fins Dekkers(Holland) LKO5(10) St George's Hall, Guernsey
source: Boxing 25/01/1939 page 21

Jan 23 1939 Charlie Chetwin(Nottingham) WRTD3(10) Corn Exchange, Bury St Edmunds
source: Boxing Weekly Record 01/02/1939 page 21

Aug 16 1940 Jim Teasdale(Middlesbrough) LKO5(10) Farrer Street Stadium, Middlesbrough
source: North-Eastern Daily Gazette

Jul 25 1941 Harry Craster(Middlesbrough) LRTD3(10) Horsley Hill Stadium, South Shields
source: Newcastle Daily Journal

Apr 6 1942 Bill Hood(Plymouth) LPTS(8) Colston Hall, Bristol
source: Bristol Evening |Post

Jan 11 1943 Johnny Darkie Davies(Gelligaer) WPTS(10) Barton Street Baths, Gloucester
source: Gloucester Citizen

Mar 20 1943 Johnny Darkie Davies(Gelligaer) LPTS(10) Palais de Danse, Pontypool
source: Boxing News 01/04/1943 page 15

Jun 29 1943 Billy Edwards(Argoed) WDSQ6(8) Town Hall, Watford
source: Boxing News 08/07/1943 pages 15 and 16

Sep 14 1943 Signalman Ivor Jones (RCS & Blaenavon) RNK(8) Town Hall, Watford
source: West Herts and Watford Observer

Oct 5 1943 Joe Orsatelli(France) LKO2(6) Town Hall, Watford
source: West Herts and Watford Observer

The bout on Sep 14 1943 is marked RNK - This means result not known.
The newspaper report did not give the outcome of the bout unfortunately.

Obviously Kalan, who tells us all that we are all ‘flat-earthers’ if we contradict him, may have some pearls of wisdom to add. He will no doubt wish to tell me that the contests I have here never happened, or that the men Gollob fought were all stiffs used to ‘pad out’ his record, or that it was Gollob who was the stiff, or some other such twaddle that he happily spouts out to enlighten us all. Feel free Kalan, as usual, to challenge me on any of this. After all I am only following your example: “I’d like to know an opinion that I haven’t backed up with data and facts”. None of your opinions are ever backed up with data or facts. They are just your opinion, and from where I sit your opinions are worthless, tiresome, and boring.

Miles Templeton

Nice thank you Miles. Just out of interest is there any reason why boxrec doesn’t use your research to populate their records?

prewarboxing · Post by **prewarboxing** » 11 May 2018, 18:46

You ask a very valid question, and one that deserves an honest answer. The truth is I am a professional historian. That means I earn my crust from my database. I have 490,000 uk results going back to 1887 and I produce my records from these. I assist the families of ex-boxers with portfolios of their career, the record, fight reports, photos, handbills, programmes etc. It would not make sense for me, financially, to put all of my research into the public domain. I have been researching uk boxing since 1973 firstly as a hobby and latterly as a small business. That said I am always extremely willing to assist and encourage fellow historians and researchers as much as I possibly can. Quite a lot of my records have already been entered into boxrec.

To some this might sound selfish. I don't really mind. I have done the research and now I want to get something back for the thousands of hours I have spent on it. One day it will all become available but in the meantime it is my livelihood.

If ever I can help you with anything please just ask

Miles Templeton.

Controversial · Post by **Controversial** » 11 May 2018, 19:24

prewarboxing wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 18:46 You ask a very valid question, and one that deserves an honest answer. The truth is I am a professional historian. That means I earn my crust from my database. I have 490,000 uk results going back to 1887 and I produce my records from these. I assist the families of ex-boxers with portfolios of their career, the record, fight reports, photos, handbills, programmes etc. It would not make sense for me, financially, to put all of my research into the public domain. I have been researching uk boxing since 1973 firstly as a hobby and latterly as a small business. That said I am always extremely willing to assist and encourage fellow historians and researchers as much as I possibly can. Quite a lot of my records have already been entered into boxrec.

To some this might sound selfish. I don't really mind. I have done the research and now I want to get something back for the thousands of hours I have spent on it. One day it will all become available but in the meantime it is my livelihood.

If ever I can help you with anything please just ask

Miles Templeton.

Not selfish at all, makes perfect sense to me. Thank you for the offer of help, I may hold you to that. Keep up the good work.

punchoutsb · Post by **punchoutsb** » 11 May 2018, 22:36

This was possibly the most horrible forum beating I've ever witnessed with Kalan meekly trying to save himself from further destruction by finally admitting that his limited boxing knowledge comes from glancing at records on boxrec.

prewarboxing · Post by **prewarboxing** » 11 May 2018, 23:15

Where is WESSHAW when you need him?

We need a new poll.

Who is the biggest fraud and charlatan in boxing history?

1. Jimmy Wilde

2 . Kalan.

Points to consider before submitting vote :

Can it really be Jimmy Wilde? After all, he was one of the greatest flyweights the world has seen.

Can it really be Kalan? After all, he always backs up his opinions with "data and facts".

Taansend · Post by **Taansend** » 12 May 2018, 00:13

I actually thought it was well known kalan was a know nothing blagger

Great posts Prewar. Keep up the good work.

ewenhay · Post by **ewenhay** » 12 May 2018, 07:59

prewarboxing wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 18:46 You ask a very valid question, and one that deserves an honest answer. The truth is I am a professional historian. That means I earn my crust from my database. I have 490,000 uk results going back to 1887 and I produce my records from these. I assist the families of ex-boxers with portfolios of their career, the record, fight reports, photos, handbills, programmes etc. It would not make sense for me, financially, to put all of my research into the public domain. I have been researching uk boxing since 1973 firstly as a hobby and latterly as a small business. That said I am always extremely willing to assist and encourage fellow historians and researchers as much as I possibly can. Quite a lot of my records have already been entered into boxrec.

To some this might sound selfish. I don't really mind. I have done the research and now I want to get something back for the thousands of hours I have spent on it. One day it will all become available but in the meantime it is my livelihood.

If ever I can help you with anything please just ask

Miles Templeton.

Good to see someone like you on the boxing history forum. Maybe it's on the way back to former glories!

prewarboxing · Post by **prewarboxing** » 12 May 2018, 08:50

Good morning Kalan.

How are you today ?

I am just wondering if you are going to answer some of the questions I have put to you?

I have one or two more.

You have denigrated the reputation of a great British fighter. You have referred to Jimmy Wilde as a fraud and a charlatan. As someone who has claimed never to express an opinion that he cannot back up with data and facts, I wonder if you could enlighten me with the data and facts to support this opinion, which you were so kind as to tell us all about last week:

"Wilde was probably the worst record padder in Fistic History… He engaged in many fraudulent fights...

Wilde was in his 49th fight — more fights than Calzaghe fought in his entire career — before he beat somebody who had more than 1 victory ".

In particular I am seeking your facts and data to support supporting your contention that :

a) Wilde is the biggest record padder in history.

b) what you can offer us in the nature of facts and data that his fights were fraudulent? Which fights in particular?

c) are you absolutely certain that it was his 49th fight before he beat someone with more than one victory. I am not so sure that this is actually true but am willing to be convinced if you can provide me with the data and facts.

When you are ready. Don't rush if is going to put you to any trouble consulting your archive of data and facts but I would appreciate a response when you have got your evidence ready. I am always happy to learn new stuff!

Miles Templeton.

Counter-puncher · Post by **Counter-puncher** » 12 May 2018, 08:55

I don't believe in having heroes and role models, but...

Miles Templeton is mine

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 12 May 2018, 09:39

prewarboxing wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 23:15 Where is WESSHAW when you need him?

We need a new poll.

Who is the biggest fraud and charlatan in boxing history?

1. Jimmy Wilde

2 . Kalan.

Points to consider before submitting vote :

Can it really be Jimmy Wilde? After all, he was one of the greatest flyweights the world has seen.

Can it really be Kalan? After all, he always backs up his opinions with "data and facts".

Ouch! Like a roman soldier "cleaning up" the battlefield post fight. (Walks around stabbing the injured enemy fighters)

Taansend · Post by **Taansend** » 12 May 2018, 10:51

oogiebe wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 09:39
prewarboxing wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 23:15 Where is WESSHAW when you need him?

We need a new poll.

Who is the biggest fraud and charlatan in boxing history?

1. Jimmy Wilde

2 . Kalan.

Points to consider before submitting vote :

Can it really be Jimmy Wilde? After all, he was one of the greatest flyweights the world has seen.

Can it really be Kalan? After all, he always backs up his opinions with "data and facts".
Ouch! Like a roman soldier "cleaning up" the battlefield post fight. (Walks around stabbing the injured enemy fighters)

SenorPipino · Post by **SenorPipino** » 12 May 2018, 11:57

I know it's not "prewar" but I wonder if Miles could shine light on the controversies regarding Shaver's power (not that big a puncher) and Chuvalo's chin (not that great).

prewarboxing · Post by **prewarboxing** » 12 May 2018, 12:09

Sorry Senor but I confine my research, and my opinions, to British stuff. I grew up with Chuvalo and Shavers and remember them fondly however. That was the great age of Heavyweight boxing imho.

prewarboxing · Post by **prewarboxing** » 12 May 2018, 12:11

I have just re-read your post again and now see that it possibly relates to the views purported by a certain esteemed expert of my acquaintance. Did he really suggest that Shavers had no power and Chuvalo no chin? Did he really suggest that? Oh dear!

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 12 May 2018, 12:21

SenorPipino wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 11:57 I know it's not "prewar" but I wonder if Miles could shine light on the controversies regarding Shaver's power (not that big a puncher) and Chuvalo's chin (not that great).

ATG's told us that Shavers was the hardest hitter.

1 - Ali
2 - Holmes
3 - Lyle
etc.
4 - Foreman said he's thankful he didn't fight Shavers!

It's all on vid to check ourselves. I know Kalan says Holmes indicated Cooney, but Holmes said Shavers hit harder.

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 12 May 2018, 12:21

prewarboxing wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 12:09 Sorry Senor but I confine my research, and my opinions, to British stuff. I grew up with Chuvalo and Shavers and remember them fondly however. That was the great age of Heavyweight boxing imho.

Chuvalo was a tough, tough hombre! Never down and always a gentleman.

SenorPipino · Post by **SenorPipino** » 12 May 2018, 12:34

prewarboxing wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 12:11 I have just re-read your post again and now see that it possibly relates to the views purported by a certain esteemed expert of my acquaintance. Did he really suggest that Shavers had no power and Chuvalo no chin? Did he really suggest that? Oh dear!

Well let's just say Miles that the K-man considers the power of Shavers and the chin of Chuvalo rather overrated.

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 12 May 2018, 12:37

SenorPipino wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 12:34
prewarboxing wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 12:11 I have just re-read your post again and now see that it possibly relates to the views purported by a certain esteemed expert of my acquaintance. Did he really suggest that Shavers had no power and Chuvalo no chin? Did he really suggest that? Oh dear!
Well let's just say Miles that the K-man considers the power of Shavers and the chin of Chuvalo rather overrated.

Absurd. Bollocks as you Brits would say! He did like McCall and Cooney though! LMAO!

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 12 May 2018, 12:38

To be fair, Kalan's issue with me is his delivery style more than what he posts. He gives no quarter if you disagree but with little to back it up (but tons of vids and articles you have to at least respect). If he wasn't so rude, I wouldn't really have too much issue with his "facts." Can't take away the homework he does, really.

prewarboxing · Post by **prewarboxing** » 12 May 2018, 12:39

He is an odd chap isn't he? I wonder if he is alright in the head? Perhaps we should be doing something to help him. Poor little fella.

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 12 May 2018, 12:40

prewarboxing wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 12:39 He is an odd chap isn't he? I wonder if he is alright in the head? Perhaps we should be doing something to help him. Poor little fella.

Funny you should say that. Once I asked him how long it was he fell and hit his head! LOL! Again, he has a lot of knowledge but a poor delivery.

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