BoxRec

ewenhay wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 09:10

SenorPipino wrote: ↑25 May 2018, 23:06

ewenhay wrote: ↑25 May 2018, 17:19 Good. I'd rather see Golovkin v Saunders anyway.

Alvarez generates big money, for the moment, but he's tainted goods. It won't last much longer.

Speculation, pure and simple.

Canelo easily remains boxing's #1 PPV star.

Plenty boxers in the past several years have been fingered in PED controversies.

I don't think that the public has abandoned any of them. Most fans forget almost immediately. It doesn't stay on the radar.

Fans pay to watch a fighter based on what he brings to the ring. The surrounding drama is just white noise.

Canelo isn't going to disappear because of a PED controversy. If anything, the resulting publicity will make him even more of an attraction.

It is indeed speculative.

However there are very few (if any?) sportspersons who have failed drug tests and gone on to have a better career afterwards, financially or athletically.

The Mexican fans who pretty much subsidize major professional boxing in the US and their own country, will always support a national athletic hero.

As long as Canelo remains a big time player in the sport, the PED allegations simply doesn't register.

In Mexico, where I have quite a few amigos I talk with, (most who are ardent boxing fans) public reaction to the clenbuterol episode is this--it's a discriminatory reaction toward Mexicans because the drugs presence is rampant in that country's meat supply.

In other words Mexican see it as much ado about nada, and attribute the furor to anti-Mexican attitudes.

All in all, this controversy has only served to strengthen Canelo's support in Mexico.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 09:46

ewenhay wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 09:10

SenorPipino wrote: ↑25 May 2018, 23:06

Speculation, pure and simple.

Canelo easily remains boxing's #1 PPV star.

Plenty boxers in the past several years have been fingered in PED controversies.

I don't think that the public has abandoned any of them. Most fans forget almost immediately. It doesn't stay on the radar.

Fans pay to watch a fighter based on what he brings to the ring. The surrounding drama is just white noise.

Canelo isn't going to disappear because of a PED controversy. If anything, the resulting publicity will make him even more of an attraction.

It is indeed speculative.

However there are very few (if any?) sportspersons who have failed drug tests and gone on to have a better career afterwards, financially or athletically.

The Mexican fans who pretty much subside major professional boxing in the US and their own country, will always support a national athletic hero.

As long as Canelo remains a big time player in the sport, the PED allegations simply doesn't register.

In Mexico, where I have quite a few amigos I talk with, (most who are ardent boxing fans) public reaction to the clenbuterol episode is this--it's a discriminatory reaction toward Mexicans because the drugs presence is rampant in that country's meat supply.

In other words Mexican see it as much ado about nada, and attribute the furor to anti-Mexican attitudes.

All in all, this controversy has only served to strengthen Canelo's support in Mexico.

Interesting

We'll see

SenorPipino wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 09:46

ewenhay wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 09:10

SenorPipino wrote: ↑25 May 2018, 23:06

Speculation, pure and simple.

Canelo easily remains boxing's #1 PPV star.

Plenty boxers in the past several years have been fingered in PED controversies.

I don't think that the public has abandoned any of them. Most fans forget almost immediately. It doesn't stay on the radar.

Fans pay to watch a fighter based on what he brings to the ring. The surrounding drama is just white noise.

Canelo isn't going to disappear because of a PED controversy. If anything, the resulting publicity will make him even more of an attraction.

It is indeed speculative.

However there are very few (if any?) sportspersons who have failed drug tests and gone on to have a better career afterwards, financially or athletically.

The Mexican fans who pretty much subside major professional boxing in the US and their own country, will always support a national athletic hero.

As long as Canelo remains a big time player in the sport, the PED allegations simply doesn't register.

In Mexico, where I have quite a few amigos I talk with, (most who are ardent boxing fans) public reaction to the clenbuterol episode is this--it's a discriminatory reaction toward Mexicans because the drugs presence is rampant in that country's meat supply.

In other words Mexican see it as much ado about nada, and attribute the furor to anti-Mexican attitudes.

All in all, this controversy has only served to strengthen Canelo's support in Mexico.

Meanwhile while we're waiting to find out can you name any other athletes whose reputation has been enhanced by failing drug tests?

Golovkin Promoter Explains GGG's Position: He Wants Fair Split!

Loeffler told BS.com - "I'm discussing it with Eric (Gomez, president of Golden Boy), Gennady took a stance because of the situation, he wants a more equitable split. It was pretty one-sided towards Canelo and it's clear the only reason the May 5 fight didn't happen is because Canelo tested positive for two tests.

"So Gennady's the champion and he did make a lot of concessions to make the first fight. He made a lot of concessions to get the rematch and now that he's had some time to think about it after the May 5th fight, he feels that if should be a more equitable split."

It's expected that Alvarez will return to the ring on September 15th.

But it's also clear that Golovkin wants a bigger slice of the financial pie the second time around.

"That's what I expressed to Eric and we'll see if there's a way to get it done. Look, when Canelo fought Cotto - when he was only the WBC champion, Gennady had two titles - they gave [Cotto] the majority of the split," Loeffler explained.

"They gave [Cotto] 55-percent and for Gennady to take a much lower percentage than Cotto's getting... Gennady feels now with the IBF (title) in jeopardy because the May 5 fight didn't happen, having to endure the meeting over there with the IBF, he feels the time that's gone by now, where we could be talking about a different fight than the Canelo fight, he feels that it should be more equitable."

Loeffler then pointed out - "especially with the numbers the first fight did. We more than doubled the gate of Cotto-Canelo, we did about a half-million more (pay-per-view) buys than Cotto-Canelo. So Gennady feels he deserves a more fair split in light of the fight having to be postponed and it was not his fault."

Loeffler makes some interesting points

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 10:48 Loeffler makes some interesting points

Definitely. Pipino and Enlightened One will tell us why he is wrong though I'm sure.

ewenhay wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 10:11

SenorPipino wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 09:46

ewenhay wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 09:10

It is indeed speculative.

However there are very few (if any?) sportspersons who have failed drug tests and gone on to have a better career afterwards, financially or athletically.

The Mexican fans who pretty much subside major professional boxing in the US and their own country, will always support a national athletic hero.

As long as Canelo remains a big time player in the sport, the PED allegations simply doesn't register.

In Mexico, where I have quite a few amigos I talk with, (most who are ardent boxing fans) public reaction to the clenbuterol episode is this--it's a discriminatory reaction toward Mexicans because the drugs presence is rampant in that country's meat supply.

In other words Mexican see it as much ado about nada, and attribute the furor to anti-Mexican attitudes.

All in all, this controversy has only served to strengthen Canelo's support in Mexico.

Meanwhile while we're waiting to find out can you name any other athletes whose reputation has been enhanced by failing drug tests?

I'm not sure about enhancement, but in the case if a national superstar like Canelo (especially in a boxing crazed country like Mexico) the drug results have had no impact in the fighter's popularity.

And does "reputation," good or bad, necessarily hurt a fighters' earnings anyways?

For years we've heard countless allegations about Mayweather and Pacquiao but nothing proven.

Did these charges hurt their reputations? Maybe. But did it hurt them at the box office? Hardly.

If Pac's earnings have dropped in recent years it has to do with a decline in performance, not because he has been tainted by PED charges.

Honestly, it's the people on these types of forums who obsess on PEDS. The average fan out there just wants to see top fighters fight and pays little attention to the extracurricular stuff.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 11:07

ewenhay wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 10:11

SenorPipino wrote: ↑26 May 2018, 09:46

The Mexican fans who pretty much subside major professional boxing in the US and their own country, will always support a national athletic hero.

As long as Canelo remains a big time player in the sport, the PED allegations simply doesn't register.

In Mexico, where I have quite a few amigos I talk with, (most who are ardent boxing fans) public reaction to the clenbuterol episode is this--it's a discriminatory reaction toward Mexicans because the drugs presence is rampant in that country's meat supply.

In other words Mexican see it as much ado about nada, and attribute the furor to anti-Mexican attitudes.

All in all, this controversy has only served to strengthen Canelo's support in Mexico.

Meanwhile while we're waiting to find out can you name any other athletes whose reputation has been enhanced by failing drug tests?

I'm not sure about enhancement, but in the case if a national superstar like Canelo (especially in a boxing crazed country like Mexico) the drug results have had no impact in the fighter's popularity.

And does "reputation," good or bad, necessarily hurt a fighters' earnings anyways?

For years we've heard countless allegations about Mayweather and Pacquiao but nothing proven.

Did these charges hurt their reputations? Maybe. But did it hurt them at the box office? Hardly.

If Pac's earnings have dropped in recent years it has to do with a decline in performance, not because he has been tainted by PED charges.

Honestly, it's the people on these types of forums who obsess on PEDS. The average fan out there just wants to see top fighters fight and pays little attention to the extracurricular stuff.

I disagree but thanks for taking the time to reply. I guess time will tell. Cheers

Golden Boy Prez: Golovkin Rematch is Dead, Ridiculous Demands!

Golden Boy Promotions President Eric Gomez, who guides the career of Mexican superstar Saul "Canelo" Alvarez (49-1-2, 34 KOs), says the rematch with Gennady Golovkin (37-0-1, 34 KOs) is currently dead in the water.

According To Gomez, the two sides had agreed to just about everything - for a planned rematch on September 15th in Las Vegas.

But things took a turn for the worse, says Gomez, when Golovkin came back with a fresh batch of demands.
“As of right now, it’s dead,” Gomez said to the Press Enterprise.

“We wasted five, six weeks – give or take – waiting on an answer from them. All the major deal points were done. They came back [on Thursday] with ridiculous demands, just ridiculous. Really, to wait five, six weeks for the type of answer they came back with [on Thursday], it’s insulting.”

Gomez said the deal for the rematch was in place before and after it was canceled for May 5.
At the moment Golovkin is looking for a better financial package.

He believes Golovkin made these fresh demands because he's having seconds thoughts about the fight - out of pure fear.

"We’re moving on. I do believe [Golovkin is scared], because it’s been one excuse after another,” Gomez said. “… With what they came back with [on Thursday], they clearly want to kill the fight.”

Golden Boy has already reached out to several possibly replacements - like former WBA champion Daniel Jacobs, WBO middleweight champion Billy Joe Saunders (should he beat Martin Murray next month), and Golden Boy promoted middleweight contender Gary "Spike" O'Sullivan.

So it is likely not to take place, that's a pity. Golovkin will face Derevianchenko, that obviously a less interesting option. But Canelo's options are better. If he really faces Jacobs or BJS, it will be good.

DrDuke wrote: ↑27 May 2018, 04:30 So it is likely not to take place, that's a pity. Golovkin will face Derevianchenko, that obviously a less interesting option. But Canelo's options are better. If he really faces Jacobs or BJS, it will be good.

Well. They said they're reaching out to Charlo, Jacobs, Saunders and O'Sullivan.

I doubt any one of them will reject a payday.

Charlo best not say though because he holds the WBC interim title. Jacobs also mandatory to GGG's WBA belt, but Hearn has already said Jacob's in interested in GGG. Will make more money too..

All the above would be getting career high paydays. (I don't really want to see him fight O'Sullivan)..

Golovkin Promoter: Canelo Wants 65-35, We Want Fair 50-50 Split!

“All Gennady came back with is that, ‘I just want a fair split, I want a 50-50 split. I’m the champion,’” Loeffler said to The Press Enterprise.

“We made a lot of concessions for the first fight, was a very low percentage for Gennady. We made a lot of concessions for the rematch after Gennady proved his value.

“But Canelo, for whatever reason, was insisting on still having a huge advantage. … It was 65-35 percent for the rematch and Gennady thinks that’s just not fair. Taking 35 percent as the champion is just not fair.”

Looks like we are in for some ducking and weaving before anything gets agreed to.

If GGG-Canelo doesn't get made I will be just as happy with GGG-BJS for all the titles.

GGG Promoter: Canelo Needs The Rematch To Save His Image!

Loeffler strongly feels that Canelo needs this rematch in order to repair any damage from the drug testing scandal.

“I really think Canelo needs the rematch with Triple G to save his image, and there was a lot of controversy with the failed drug tests and speculation Canelo took something in the first fight,” Loeffler said to the Las Vegas Review Journal.

“Now that Canelo enrolled in full-time VADA testing, he needs to prove he can fight the same way.”

Golden Boy Prez: If GGG Takes Old Terms - Fight Can Be Saved

Golden Boy Promotions President Eric Gomez, who promotes Mexican superstar Saul "Canelo" Alvarez (49-1-2, 34 KOs), says the rematch with Gennady Golovkin can be saved - if the IBF, IBO, WBA, WBC middleweight champion accepts the prior terms that both sides had agreed upon.

If Golovkin steps back on his new financial demands - and embraces what he accepted for May 5 - then the rematch can happen, says Gomez.

"To promote a great event it takes time and they wasted six weeks already. At this moment there is no possibility of Canelo-GGG 2," said Gomez to ESPN Deportes .

"If they come back (Golovkin and Loeffler), today or tomorrow, for what we had agreed on, the fight can be saved. Saul has a lot of options. There's Daniel Jacobs, Billy Joe Saunders, who will defend in June, but they're willing to fight; we already talked to allegedly, (Jermall) Charlo, obviously (David) Lemieux, (Gary) O'Sullivan.

"Golovkin , however, has a choice, [fight Canelo or] make the mandatory with the Russian (Sergiy Derevyanchenko) who has 12 fights... if that's what he wants to do; to fight with an opponent that nobody knows."

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑29 May 2018, 03:52 GGG Promoter: Canelo Needs The Rematch To Save His Image!

Loeffler strongly feels that Canelo needs this rematch in order to repair any damage from the drug testing scandal.

“I really think Canelo needs the rematch with Triple G to save his image, and there was a lot of controversy with the failed drug tests and speculation Canelo took something in the first fight,” Loeffler said to the Las Vegas Review Journal.

“Now that Canelo enrolled in full-time VADA testing, he needs to prove he can fight the same way.”

Without the Golovkin rematch Canelo will be seen as nothing more or less than a cheating coward. He's lucky he's still being offered a shot at redemption.

that may be true of how many hardcore fans view canelo but hell still have loads of casual fans who support him and fund him to the tune of 15m+ a fight

jamamb wrote: ↑29 May 2018, 05:19 that may be true of how many hardcore fans view canelo but hell still have loads of casual fans who support him and fund him to the tune of 15m+ a fight

Crap! But so true. Mexican boxing fans make up majority of them buys.

I disagree. I think that Canelo's next outing is going to show all fans, Mexicans included, what kind of fighter he is off the sauce. Assuming that he hasn't already found a way to around system. I don't care which anti-doping agency that we're talking about, all of them are a step behind the PED pushing scientists looking for an edge.

I'd love to see a clean Canelo fight GGG so we could see what would really happen. Boy, imagine if GGG wasn't an honest boxer and he doped? He'd be an absolute force of nature.

Canelo indeed has a lot to prove and is hardly in a position to quibble about 10%.

Inch by inch, day by day the Canelo camp are being made aware that things have changed.
Definitely on the back foot now, even outside the ring.

Thomastearns wrote: ↑29 May 2018, 09:54 Canelo indeed has a lot to prove and is hardly in a position to quibble about 10%.

Inch by inch, day by day the Canelo camp are being made aware that things have changed.
Definitely on the back foot now, even outside the ring.

- Most of you aren't in any position to comment objectively given the general hate generated by Canelo since his 18 year old US debut with Golden Boy.

I've always had the highest regard for both Golovkin and Loeffler for their excellent contributions to boxing and the first fight was worthy of high accolades. However it would appear The Peter principle finally manifest itself after the rematch was successfully signed. People in a hierarchy tend to rise to their "level of incompetence". In other words, an employee is promoted based on their success in previous jobs until they reach a level at which they are no longer competent, as skills in one job do not necessarily translate to another, a concept first developed in 1969 to explain gross corporate failures.

From my perspective, Golovkin looks a bit light in the loafers now, perhaps not fancying the fight after Canelo punched him well on the back foot many times in the last fight. And be clear here, Canelo didn't actually fail a drug test since the authorities accepted the nanograms involved were well within the meat source of his populace and in effect an ethereal ghost presence since before and after tests were negative including a hair sample.

Can anyone imagine Ali and Frazier cancelling a $50+ mil fight over ghost ninnygrams? Guess I come from a different culture than the sissy one prevalent today. Prob half the guys I ran around with couldn't fight a lick, but I guarantee you for the purse Golovkin was gonna get, they'd fight a prime Mike Tyson empowered with 30X normal testosterone values.

So, no, Tommy boys, Gennedy and you don't deserve 40/60 because there is no guarantee you won't pull out again costing Canelo and your sissy selves another payday. If I were Canelo, I'd tell Oscar to hook him up with the largest Bull Ring in Mexico City and defend his Ring title there and whatever other titles he can conjure up and retire. He's gotten nothing but stick by nonMexicans for fighting who his Mexican fans want him to fight. The Vegas commish are proven cheats a million times over these many decades and certainly not deserving of a mega fight any more than you Daisy Maes.

Sadly it's come to this with the sissy's looking to take over Boxing, just pitiable, but GOOD NEWS still abounds!



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Privately email me your bank # and address, and I'll give you the sissy discount: $222 for a kilo of 4 billion year old ignoramus smarty pants rocks. Act fast, they're going like hotcakes...

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The gate for the Cotto fight, which took place in November of 2015, did approximately $12 million dollars and produced 900,000 pay-per-view purchases, while the event last year was the third highest all-time gate in Las Vegas, at around $27 million and totaling 1.4 million pay-per-view buys. “So Gennady feels he deserves a more fair split, in light of the fight having to be postponed and not being his fault.”

But while Golovkin feels as though he’s making a principled stand, he would probably have to fight Derevyanchenko, Charlo, Murata and Jacobs (again) to make what he would in the rematch with Alvarez. How much is his principle worth here? Does Golovkin understand the risk he’s taking?

“Yeah, he understands that,” said Loeffler, “and he gave me the clear direction that’s the way he wants to go into. He feels it’s a matter of principle. He brings a lot of value to the table and wants to get paid correctly.

nobody tests positive for 800 picograms of clenbuterol from eating tainted meat ! https://3kingsboxing.com/why-gennady-go ... -outraged/

dickbelden wrote: ↑29 May 2018, 12:59 nobody tests positive for 800 picograms of clenbuterol from eating tainted meat ! https://3kingsboxing.com/why-gennady-go ... -outraged/

true.