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Re: did east euro fanboys toss kov to the trash
Posted: 15 Jun 2018, 02:33
by Ilya Muromets
In reality Kovalev beat Ward twice, first on points, and in the second fight Ward was disqualified for repeated low blows. That is in reality, as opposed to the organized crime world of Mafia Vegas and all their in-house refs and judges.
Re: did east euro fanboys toss kov to the trash
Posted: 15 Jun 2018, 08:19
by Heretic
x2x wrote: ↑15 Jun 2018, 02:33
In reality Kovalev beat Ward twice, first on points, and in the second fight Ward was disqualified for repeated low blows. That is in reality, as opposed to the organized crime world of Mafia Vegas and all their in-house refs and judges.
Yeah...
It is impossible to talk about Kovalev without going back to that place
(I do agree with your post...)
Re: did east euro fanboys toss kov to the trash
Posted: 15 Jun 2018, 08:21
by Heretic
x2x wrote: ↑15 Jun 2018, 02:33
In reality Kovalev beat Ward twice, first on points, and in the second fight Ward was disqualified for repeated low blows. That is in reality, as opposed to the organized crime world of Mafia Vegas and all their in-house refs and judges.
It is also kind of funny how fixing those fights actually accomplished nothing. Fights didn't sell that much and Ward retired.
Boxing as whole took a big hit. Vegas also because stuff like this tends to be bad for the sports betting business.
Re: did east euro fanboys toss kov to the trash
Posted: 15 Jun 2018, 08:33
by littlepug
Regardless of the results of the Kov/Ward fights 2 things became clear, he could be out thought (1st) as well as out fought (2nd) by a smaller man, those things hurt his career but maybe he has more to give, maybe not...
Re: did east euro fanboys toss kov to the trash
Posted: 15 Jun 2018, 10:47
by boxing_rocks
SenorPipino wrote: ↑15 Jun 2018, 00:21
He was hyped big time and then was exposed and embarrassed by Ward.
Embarrassed by beating him in the first fight?
Re: did east euro fanboys toss kov to the trash
Posted: 15 Jun 2018, 12:10
by SenorPipino
boxing_rocks wrote: ↑15 Jun 2018, 10:47
SenorPipino wrote: ↑15 Jun 2018, 00:21
He was hyped big time and then was exposed and embarrassed by Ward.
Embarrassed by beating him in the first fight?
Exposed in the first fight. Once Ward realized about the third round that he could nullify Kovalev by fighting inside, it was pretty routine.
As for the second fight, how else to describe it but embarrassing for Kovalev??
When you go around with an Ivan Drago bad ass persona and then get KO'd by the light punching Ward....hell yeah, you better believe that was embarrassing.
Re: did east euro fanboys toss kov to the trash
Posted: 15 Jun 2018, 12:30
by gilgamesh
I certainly wouldn't consider myself an "East Euro Fanboy", but I am a Kovalev fan. I haven't forgotten about him, and would still favor him over a great deal of the big names in the division.
If he fought Stevenson of Badou Jack next I'd be highly confident he'd kick their ass.
Gvozdyk and Bivol seem to be quite a handful, but they ain't faced nobody like Kovalev.
Beterbiev definitely seems like a case of wasted potential as his management simply refuses to get him meaningful matchups.
Re: did east euro fanboys toss kov to the trash
Posted: 15 Jun 2018, 15:15
by boxing_rocks
SenorPipino wrote: ↑15 Jun 2018, 12:10
boxing_rocks wrote: ↑15 Jun 2018, 10:47
SenorPipino wrote: ↑15 Jun 2018, 00:21
He was hyped big time and then was exposed and embarrassed by Ward.
Embarrassed by beating him in the first fight?
Exposed in the first fight. Once Ward realized about the third round that he could nullify Kovalev by fighting inside, it was pretty routine.
As for the second fight, how else to describe it but embarrassing for Kovalev??
When you go around with an Ivan Drago bad ass persona and then get KO'd by the light punching Ward....hell yeah, you better believe that was embarrassing.
Nobody got KOed by the light punching Ward. Don't tell me those fairy tales. Ward won the second fight by repeated low blows. Kovalev was in fact exposed in that fight, but it was his level of preparation and emotional readiness/toughness which was exposed.
Re: did east euro fanboys toss kov to the trash
Posted: 15 Jun 2018, 17:09
by gilgamesh
SenorPipino wrote: ↑15 Jun 2018, 12:10
boxing_rocks wrote: ↑15 Jun 2018, 10:47
SenorPipino wrote: ↑15 Jun 2018, 00:21
He was hyped big time and then was exposed and embarrassed by Ward.
Embarrassed by beating him in the first fight?
Exposed in the first fight. Once Ward realized about the third round that he could nullify Kovalev by fighting inside, it was pretty routine.
As for the second fight, how else to describe it but embarrassing for Kovalev??
When you go around with an Ivan Drago bad ass persona and then get KO'd by the light punching Ward....hell yeah, you better believe that was embarrassing.
Kovalev deserved the decision in the 1st fight, and Ward should've had a point deducted or at the very least been given warnings for his blatant consecutive low blows in the rematch. Instead he was given a TKO victory following 3 shots straight on the balls.
Both of Ward's "victories" over Kovalev are tainted, and not the least bit embarrassing for Kovalev.
Though I can see where the losses may have taken his love of the sport away a little bit because he found out that when the deck is stacked against you the powers that be will find a way to f*ck you over no matter what.
I can see where something like that might make you "not quite the same fighter" because you know now that no matter what you do sometimes you just can't win.
Kovalev's only crime in the rematch was expecting the referee to enforce the rules. He should've taken matters into his own hands, and hit Ward BACK in the balls.
Re: did east euro fanboys toss kov to the trash
Posted: 15 Jun 2018, 17:43
by Best Coast
x2x wrote: ↑14 Jun 2018, 19:38
"... ward beat kov, but you cant say ward beat bivol/beterbiev/gvofzyk and so east euro fanboys move onto those guys as the new hopes, esp. bivol
i mean, ya, kov lost to ward twice, "
Kovalev never lost to Ward. He lost to Mafia Vegas judges and referees.
Re: did east euro fanboys toss kov to the trash
Posted: 15 Jun 2018, 17:46
by SenorPipino
I agree about retaliating.
When you're a fighter and a world class professional, don't whine to the referee.
Instead, takes matters into your own hands and fight fire with fire, even if you get docked a point yourself.
Kovalev had never been in that position and didn't know how to deal with Ward's tactics.
Same with Lomachenko vs Salido. Best way to stop a guy from fouling you is to foul him back harder.
Neither Kovalev or Lomachenko fought back and retaliated like they should have. And they paid the price.
Fritzie Zivik and Harry Greb would have been ashamed of them for being so genteel.
Re: did east euro fanboys toss kov to the trash
Posted: 15 Jun 2018, 17:56
by gilgamesh
SenorPipino wrote: ↑15 Jun 2018, 17:46
I agree about retaliating.
When you're a fighter and a world class professional, don't whine to the referee.
Instead, takes matters into your own hands and fight fire with fire, even if you get docked a point yourself.
Kovalev had never been in that position and didn't know how to deal with Ward's tactics.
Same with Lomachenko vs Salido.
Best way to stop a guy from fouling you is to foul him back harder.
Neither Kovalev or Lomachenko fought back and retaliated like they should have. And they paid the price.
Fritzie Zivik and Harry Greb would have been ashamed of them for being so genteel.
Re: did east euro fanboys toss kov to the trash
Posted: 15 Jun 2018, 18:09
by Ilya Muromets
SenorPipino wrote: ↑15 Jun 2018, 17:46
I agree about retaliating.
When you're a fighter and a world class professional, don't whine to the referee.
Instead, takes matters into your own hands and fight fire with fire, even if you get docked a point yourself.
Kovalev had never been in that position and didn't know how to deal with Ward's tactics.
Same with Lomachenko vs Salido. Best way to stop a guy from fouling you is to foul him back harder.
Neither Kovalev or Lomachenko fought back and retaliated like they should have. And they paid the price.
Fritzie Zivik and Harry Greb would have been ashamed of them for being so genteel.
This I agree with. I was disappointed that K didn't hit Ward in the balls as hard as he could. Of course then Ward's crime partner wearing the referee costume would have suddenly come to life and deducted a point and warned Kov or maybe dq'd him right on the spot!
Re: did east euro fanboys toss kov to the trash
Posted: 16 Jun 2018, 17:21
by Heretic
gilgamesh wrote: ↑15 Jun 2018, 17:09
SenorPipino wrote: ↑15 Jun 2018, 12:10
boxing_rocks wrote: ↑15 Jun 2018, 10:47
Embarrassed by beating him in the first fight?
Exposed in the first fight. Once Ward realized about the third round that he could nullify Kovalev by fighting inside, it was pretty routine.
As for the second fight, how else to describe it but embarrassing for Kovalev??
When you go around with an Ivan Drago bad ass persona and then get KO'd by the light punching Ward....hell yeah, you better believe that was embarrassing.
Kovalev deserved the decision in the 1st fight, and Ward should've had a point deducted or at the very least been given warnings for his blatant consecutive low blows in the rematch. Instead he was given a TKO victory following 3 shots straight on the balls.
Both of Ward's "victories" over Kovalev are tainted, and not the least bit embarrassing for Kovalev.
Though I can see where the losses may have taken his love of the sport away a little bit because he found out that when the deck is stacked against you the powers that be will find a way to f*ck you over no matter what.
I can see where something like that might make you "not quite the same fighter" because you know now that no matter what you do sometimes you just can't win.
Kovalev's only crime in the rematch was expecting the referee to enforce the rules. He should've taken matters into his own hands, and hit Ward BACK in the balls.
And end up disqualified instead
Sometimes you just can't win in the game of boxing
Re: did east euro fanboys toss kov to the trash
Posted: 16 Jun 2018, 19:13
by greg
..I generally agree with retaliating with all other conditions being equal..you should be extremely cautious though retaliating fighting in the backyard of someone else..
Re: did east euro fanboys toss kov to the trash
Posted: 16 Jun 2018, 23:35
by jamamb
he was 'exposed' 1st fight even though he was the underdog vs an amazing boxer and was super close and loads of ppl thought he won
funny that some portray hm as a hypejob even though he was underdog and had been called limited for years. espn even had an expert poll that had hop up 13-12 for predictions of there fight. he was hardly ggg for hype.
man some ppl are terrible when it comes to trashing guys for a loss. cant even drop the closest of decisions to a sure thing p4p hall of famer (who was favoured) w/o ppl saying your 'exposed'
trash fans tossing boxers to the trash. no wonder the 0's valued so much
Re: did east euro fanboys toss kov to the trash
Posted: 17 Jun 2018, 01:33
by punchoutsb
jamamb wrote: ↑16 Jun 2018, 23:35
he was 'exposed' 1st fight even though he was the underdog vs an amazing boxer and was super close and loads of ppl thought he won
funny that some portray hm as a hypejob even though he was underdog and had been called limited for years. espn even had an expert poll that had hop up 13-12 for predictions of there fight. he was hardly ggg for hype.
man some ppl are terrible when it comes to trashing guys for a loss. cant even drop the closest of decisions to a sure thing p4p hall of famer (who was favoured) w/o ppl saying your 'exposed'
trash fans tossing boxers to the trash. no wonder the 0's valued so much
Casual fans are record and highlight watchers. They don't really understand the sport and put value solely on records. If you can't beat everybody that came before you you're not worth watching. Gotta be the GOAT!!
Re: did east euro fanboys toss kov to the trash
Posted: 17 Jun 2018, 19:42
by Blodhemn
Ward didn't look great against Barrera and can say the same against Kovalev in the first fight. Let's not pretend he's some ATG LHW. Compare "young" Bivol vs Barrera and it shouldn't take much to see why he's getting hyped by a few crumbs on a barely visited boxing site. It also didn't take a genius to predict Ward would retire instead of facing the new crop, despite being the favorite, so that excuse doesn't hold much water - everyone knew it would happen.
Kovalev is the best LHW for 4 rounds, but at this stage, his stamina might not be as bad as Pascal's but in the Ward rematch, it's clear he didn't have the heart to stay in and fight for a second wind. It remains to be seen if he's still got it once the pressure comes as his stamina issues are here to stay.