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Re: Roberto Duran vs Davey Moore: The Redemption
Posted: 27 Jun 2018, 17:07
by Duran1970
Sounds like you weren't around for that fight or you would remember that Duran was brought in as an opponent....the media and boxing afficionados were all over Moore and said he was the real deal for winning the strap with little experience and boasting about his bright future...yes 32 was old at that time especially when you consider how many fights and how long he was a pro and how bad he looked recently at that point(sans Cuevas) hence the odds...if you weren't around at that time I suggest you brush up on your history..I'm too old to educate you....
And please tell me at what point of what round Moore was "thumbed"? And tell me all the other opponents Duran thumbed his way to victory over
Re: Roberto Duran vs Davey Moore: The Redemption
Posted: 28 Jun 2018, 10:58
by Ambling Alp II
Yes I was around when the fight happened. I saw Moore fight before the Duran fight. He looked like a promising young fighter. He had some strengths and some weaknesses. He had not shown he was ready to beat a great fighter.
Some people thought Duran was washed up because of the embarrassing to Laing, who was not even a contender. However, I thought it was an aberration. Going by the Cuevas fight, I didn't see why he should lose to Moore. His defense was not good at all. He was inexperienced. He stood right in front of his opponent and bombed away, but he didn't have quite enough power to worry Duran. He was a perfect opponent for Duran.
As for the thumbing eye, Duran fans can't have it both ways. When he loses, there is every excuse in the book. (cue elmer and his nonsense.)
However, we are always supposed to think that his opponent was was at 100%. The guy was thumbed in the first round. (The first time.) He had trouble seeing almost the entire fight. Imagine if the situation was reversed and Duran was thumbed. That is all that you would hear about.
Quitting like he did against Leonard is inexcusable. Sometimes the other guy is better than you. Countless other fighters have been in the same situation. You don't quit. You keep trying. He disgraced not only himself but the sport as well. His purse should have been held up. He should have been suspended. Beating someone else who is nowhere near as good as Leonard does not "redeem him". That he resorted to thumbing just makes it worse.
Re: Roberto Duran vs Davey Moore: The Redemption
Posted: 28 Jun 2018, 11:53
by elmersalsa
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Jun 2018, 10:58
Yes I was around when the fight happened. I saw Moore fight before the Duran fight. He looked like a promising young fighter. He had some strengths and some weaknesses. He had not shown he was ready to beat a great fighter.
Some people thought Duran was washed up because of the embarrassing to Laing, who was not even a contender. However, I thought it was an aberration. Going by the Cuevas fight, I didn't see why he should lose to Moore. His defense was not good at all. He was inexperienced. He stood right in front of his opponent and bombed away, but he didn't have quite enough power to worry Duran. He was a perfect opponent for Duran.
As for the thumbing eye, Duran fans can't have it both ways. When he loses, there is every excuse in the book. (cue elmer and his nonsense.)
However, we are always supposed to think that his opponent was was at 100%. The guy was thumbed in the first round. (The first time.) He had trouble seeing almost the entire fight. Imagine if the situation was reversed and Duran was thumbed. That is all that you would hear about.
Quitting like he did against Leonard is inexcusable. Sometimes the other guy is better than you. Countless other fighters have been in the same situation. You don't quit. You keep trying. He disgraced not only himself but the sport as well. His purse should have been held up. He should have been suspended. Beating someone else who is nowhere near as good as Leonard does not "redeem him". That he resorted to thumbing just makes it worse.
I bet you Davey Moore would have whupped Sugar Ray back then. Calling Moore that he wasn't a good fighter is one of the naysays of some people, especially the Sugar Ray's fans. But, before the fight, they were completely convinced that this young Turk was going to destroy Manos de Piedra. Moore was a formidable Champion. He beat Ayub Kalule much easier than Leonard did. After losing to Duran, Moore whupped the great Wilfred Benitez by knockout in 2. If that ain't a good fighter, then what is?
Duran redeemed himself. He did it in EXTRAORDINARY FASHION. After the No Mas, not too many people believed in him. His so called "best friends" deserted him. That says to me that people are just there with you for the good times. When the bad times come, there's no one close in sight. Many left him. That's what happened to Roberto.
It was one of the most beautiful and unbelievable nights of boxing that I have witnessed. If that moment didn't moved you, I understand. You are a Duran's hater anyway. But to the 20,000 plus fans that we're there cheering for Duran at the Garden, it was one of the most unforgettable nights in boxing in a decade of unforgettable fights.
Re: Roberto Duran vs Davey Moore: The Redemption
Posted: 16 Jan 2021, 09:31
by f read
Duran resurrected his career with this awesome destruction of Davey Moore. This may well be his best win and performance. Many were writing him off at this juncture but he came back with a motive and something to prove. He really took novice Davey Moore to school and gave him a butt licking in the process. He even gave Marvin Hagler all he could handle 5 months later. The great Hands of Stone one for the ages and a top 10 pound for pound boxer of all time.
Re: Roberto Duran vs Davey Moore: The Redemption
Posted: 16 Jan 2021, 16:56
by Nile4000
Marvin had to blame himself for part of that. Giving Roberto too much respect.
Re: Roberto Duran vs Davey Moore: The Redemption
Posted: 16 Jan 2021, 17:13
by elmersalsa
Nile4000 wrote: ↑16 Jan 2021, 16:56
Marvin had to blame himself for part of that. Giving Roberto too much respect.
It didn't matter, Nile4000. Marvelous proved that he was a great champion by winning the last 3 rounds.
The middleweight pound limit was too much for Roberto. A lightweight fighting middleweights. I have not seen nothing like it in my lifetime.
Re: Roberto Duran vs Davey Moore: The Redemption
Posted: 16 Jan 2021, 17:43
by Nile4000
elmersalsa wrote: ↑16 Jan 2021, 17:13
Nile4000 wrote: ↑16 Jan 2021, 16:56
Marvin had to blame himself for part of that. Giving Roberto too much respect.
It didn't matter, Nile4000. Marvelous proved that he was a great champion by winning the last 3 rounds.
The middleweight pound limit was too much for Roberto. A lightweight fighting middleweights. I have not seen nothing like it in my lifetime.
That's a good point, Elmer. And you probably won't during our lifetimes and beyond. So I give Roberto his respect, for the most part.
Re: Roberto Duran vs Davey Moore: The Redemption
Posted: 16 Jan 2021, 17:55
by f read
Nile4000 wrote: ↑16 Jan 2021, 16:56
Marvin had to blame himself for part of that. Giving Roberto too much respect.
Agreed and well said. The fact is Roberto Duran was the superior talent and boxer but Marvin Hagler was the superior middleweight. You know sizing up Hagler he may have been not intimidated but maybe a little unsure of himself in these fights with big big names like Leonard and Duran. Maybe they were able to crack something in his subconscious or his pschye.
Re: Roberto Duran vs Davey Moore: The Redemption
Posted: 17 Jan 2021, 09:43
by Nile4000
f read wrote: ↑16 Jan 2021, 17:55
Nile4000 wrote: ↑16 Jan 2021, 16:56
Marvin had to blame himself for part of that. Giving Roberto too much respect.
Agreed and well said. The fact is Roberto Duran was the superior talent and boxer but Marvin Hagler was the superior middleweight. You know sizing up Hagler he may have been not intimidated but maybe a little unsure of himself in these fights with big big names like Leonard and Duran. Maybe they were able to crack something in his subconscious or his pschye.
True, and I think that is what ultimately messed up his career, albeit a great one. Maybe the first fight with Vito and a couple of others as well.
Re: Roberto Duran vs Davey Moore: The Redemption
Posted: 17 Jan 2021, 10:00
by Noxy
I watched it at the time, so quite a few years ago now. Sure, it was a great performance by Duran. But I also think people mythologise it too much - he blitzed Moore, he gave Moore a really brutal beating etc.
Moore fought back, he just got beaten up. I’ve seen other fights that were equally violent. But for some reason people don’t talk about them the same way as they do Moore vs Duran.
Re: Roberto Duran vs Davey Moore: The Redemption
Posted: 17 Jan 2021, 13:00
by gilgamesh
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑25 Jun 2018, 10:40
Yes, obviously thumbing his way to victory against a guy with 12 fights certainly redeemed him after quitting like a dog when he was losing to his archrival.
Thumbing his way to victory
I'm pretty sure punching the guy had something to do with it.
As for bending the rules, my policy is if the referee didn't call it, then I guess it was legal. It's a fight, it's not a dance.
Re: Roberto Duran vs Davey Moore: The Redemption
Posted: 17 Jan 2021, 16:16
by Ambling Alp II
That's a great policy. We should just pretend they are never incompetent or biased and they never impact a fight.
Re: Roberto Duran vs Davey Moore: The Redemption
Posted: 18 Jan 2021, 05:31
by Onetimeonly
Lol, Elmer always brings the comedic relief. Moore whooped benitez.
Re: Roberto Duran vs Davey Moore: The Redemption
Posted: 18 Jan 2021, 13:26
by elmersalsa
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑18 Jan 2021, 05:31
Lol, Elmer always brings the comedic relief. Moore whooped benitez.
Didn't he?
Re: Roberto Duran vs Davey Moore: The Redemption
Posted: 18 Jan 2021, 14:44
by Onetimeonly
elmersalsa wrote: ↑18 Jan 2021, 13:26
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑18 Jan 2021, 05:31
Lol, Elmer always brings the comedic relief. Moore whooped benitez.
Didn't he?
No
Re: Roberto Duran vs Davey Moore: The Redemption
Posted: 18 Jan 2021, 15:00
by gilgamesh
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑17 Jan 2021, 16:16
That's a great policy. We should just pretend they are never incompetent or biased and they never impact a fight.
Well. You could definitely not make ridiculous excuses for a better fighter beating an inferior fighter. That's an even better policy.
Sounds like the people with the Lewis "laced him" stuff about the Vitali fight.
Re: Roberto Duran vs Davey Moore: The Redemption
Posted: 18 Jan 2021, 18:50
by elmersalsa
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑18 Jan 2021, 14:44
elmersalsa wrote: ↑18 Jan 2021, 13:26
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑18 Jan 2021, 05:31
Lol, Elmer always brings the comedic relief. Moore whooped benitez.
Didn't he?
No
I saw an ass whupping. It only lasted 2 rounds.
Re: Roberto Duran vs Davey Moore: The Redemption
Posted: 18 Jan 2021, 20:32
by Onetimeonly
elmersalsa wrote: ↑18 Jan 2021, 18:50
I saw an ass whupping. It only lasted 2 rounds.
Guess you didn't see it or don't remember. Benitez was injured.
Re: Roberto Duran vs Davey Moore: The Redemption
Posted: 19 Jan 2021, 20:56
by Ambling Alp II
gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Jan 2021, 15:00
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑17 Jan 2021, 16:16
That's a great policy. We should just pretend they are never incompetent or biased and they never impact a fight.
Well. You could definitely not make ridiculous excuses for a better fighter beating an inferior fighter. That's an even better policy.
Sounds like the people with the Lewis "laced him" stuff about the Vitali fight.
Yes Duran was a better fighter than Moore. Not arguing that at all. simply saying that Duran thumbed him several times. Duran did thumb him, so no, it's not ridiculous to say that he did.