Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 00:37
by Mexi-Box
jamamb wrote: ↑18 Jul 2018, 00:28
golovkin has a lot of decent wins but nothing that impressive. if he doesnt ever get that good win vs a top flight fighter to me it greatly limits his maximum rating. guys like lemieux and murray and geale etc are really nothing in a historical context. jacobs make him look ultra limited and 114-113'd him imo.
but i think even if he loses the rematch he defo still rates higher then guys like bute and abraham that were mentioned. but a guy like dariusz....i think at best gggs even with him. and i have no idea why people act like golovkins just levels above a guy like jermain taylor.
There is a lot wrong with that sentence. A fighter that barely beats another fighter makes him look ultra limited? WTF?
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 00:41
by jamamb
get your head around it kid
there were many moments in that fight where ggg was slow, easy to hit, unimaginative, and not finding the target. i just wish jacobs wouldve committed a bit more, i think he couldve made it wider
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
No it can't. He was a better MW than Martinez. FYI, Golovkin defeated Martin Murray who several had beating Martinez.
Canelo>Pavlik
Jacobs>Williams
Murray>Chavez Jr.
Geale>< or =Barker (they had a close fight, IIRC)
Then the rest is absolutely no contest. Golovkin has greater depth and is undefeated during his reign.
Martinez lost to Cotto and Murray while he was at the top. And before anyone talks about the leg, Martinez was still rated p4p when Cotto beat the life out of him.
It's worth mentioning that the Murray fight took place when Martinez was clearly past his best and the Cotto fight he w aas completely shot, due to no longer having full use of his legs, which were arguably his greatest asset as a boxer. There's a very good chance a prime Martinez would have beaten Cotto. Also the Murray fight was close and controversial, but not a clear robbery.
That said, I agree that GGG clearly ranks above Martinez, Pavlik and Taylor, regardless of what happens in the Canelo rematch.
It's all definitely hindsight. Martinez was the overwhelming favorite against Cotto and was still rated p4p, I think it was #4 or #5 at the time. Someone that doesn't have full use of his legs wouldn't run at full speed to try and cold-clock someone like he did when Cotto thought he heard the bell ring. Martinez was never in Cotto's league is all. He's also not in Golovkin's league.
We'll have to agree to disagree. Martinez was overrated in a p4p sense coming into the Cotto fight and was clearly past his best. I still think a prime Martinez beats Cotto. His victories over much bigger opponents such as Paul Williams and Kelly Pavlik were impressive, as was the way he destroyed Dzinziruk. He was clearly on the decline after the Chavez Jr fight. I'm not arguing he was as good as GGG - he just gets too much criticism for his final two performances when he was clearly past his best. For me he has the 2nd most impressive middleweight title reign since Hopkins, after GGG of course.
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 00:53
by Mexi-Box
jamamb wrote: ↑18 Jul 2018, 00:41
get your head around it kid
there were many moments in that fight where ggg was slow, easy to hit, unimaginative, and not finding the target. i just wish jacobs wouldve committed a bit more, i think he couldve made it wider
Okay, then why didn't Jacobs commit? Was it because he just didn't want to beat Golovkin clearly? He just went into the fight and said, "I can hit Golovkin at will, but I don't want to make Golovkin look too bad." Your sentence made zero sense, guy.
You barely had Jacobs beating Golovkin, yet he made him look slow and easy to hit.
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 01:17
by jamamb
do you follow kid? i still had jacobs winning and i think he couldve won even wider with a bit different an approach. he showed the standout ability in there. ggg in many rounds was looking very limited, slow, easy to hit, just plodding around. i thought he lost and didnt impress at all and thats like his top win lol
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 01:20
by Like a Boss
Can't see Canelo beating GGG clearly. But even if it did happen GGG's legacy is already clearly etched.
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
many say that Canelo is the one who is going to adjust, but I think Golovkin will be able to do it, apparently boxing less but that's not it, Golovkin is one of those fighters who does not box pretty, but it's effective, and Canelo is one of the fighters who boxes pretty, but it's not as effective
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 12:37
by Mexi-Box
jamamb wrote: ↑18 Jul 2018, 01:17
do you follow kid? i still had jacobs winning and i think he couldve won even wider with a bit different an approach. he showed the standout ability in there. ggg in many rounds was looking very limited, slow, easy to hit, just plodding around. i thought he lost and didnt impress at all and thats like his top win lol
Nope, your post is just a bias attempt at making Golovkin look bad, but the fact that you posted a scorecard shows you don't even believe your own post.
By the way, Canelo was a better "win" than Jacobs, and if you post your scorecard by rounds, I'd bet you can easily give the fight to Golovkin. Saying "wide" or "limited" is not something you'd even say in a razor close fight like that Golovkin arguably won. It's just an ignorant attempt at trying to put forth some agenda.
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
jamamb wrote: ↑18 Jul 2018, 01:17
do you follow kid? i still had jacobs winning and i think he couldve won even wider with a bit different an approach. he showed the standout ability in there. ggg in many rounds was looking very limited, slow, easy to hit, just plodding around. i thought he lost and didnt impress at all and thats like his top win lol
Nope, your post is just a bias attempt at making Golovkin look bad, but the fact that you posted a scorecard shows you don't even believe your own post.
By the way, Canelo was a better "win" than Jacobs, and if you post your scorecard by rounds, I'd bet you can easily give the fight to Golovkin. Saying "wide" or "limited" is not something you'd even say in a razor close fight like that Golovkin arguably won. It's just an ignorant attempt at trying to put forth some agenda.
jamdumb is a 12 y/o kinder.
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 13:17
by jamamb
lol, poor kids cant grasp that a guy can look limited and still win some rounds, though not as many as jacobs deserved
ggg could beat on martin murrays all day, but when he stepped beyond that hes hardly got by and looked much more limited. im really not sure why ppl place him levels above a guy like jermain 'crazy' taylor
and thats the thing with golovkin, plenty of decent wins but really lacking the type of top flight stuff to be much more than a mw dariusz, no shame in that, i still rate him higher then guys like bute and abraham and maybe he might even get into the hof with some generous voting
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 15:09
by boxing_rocks
What you will never understand is that he only looks limited to an uneducated eye, but he is just very effective without visual effects. See my post about Beristan interview above in this thread. Also, there are old educational videos like these:
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 18:40
by squiggy
On an unrelated note, perhaps Boxrec could choose a photo where he doesn't look like he has something white dripping down both sides of his face.
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
Posted: 18 Jul 2018, 18:58
by fanman
triple g is a real champ. fights everyone without hesitation. brutally ko's nearly everyone.
his step up fights have been close, they came in his mid 30s instead of his mid 20's.
still bossed the fights and got a win and a draw.
... how would he be remembered? we've seen him take on the best and do well at this stage. it won't make a big difference. but important for the legacy no doubt.
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
No it can't. He was a better MW than Martinez. FYI, Golovkin defeated Martin Murray who several had beating Martinez.
Canelo>Pavlik
Jacobs>Williams
Murray>Chavez Jr.
Geale>< or =Barker (they had a close fight, IIRC)
Then the rest is absolutely no contest. Golovkin has greater depth and is undefeated during his reign.
Martinez lost to Cotto and Murray while he was at the top. And before anyone talks about the leg, Martinez was still rated p4p when Cotto beat the life out of him.
Your rating the fighters. I'm not GGG is clearly better than Martinez. My point is the resume is similar. GGG beat some guys on Martinez record better but my case is Martinez beat a more prime version of those guys and beat other really good middleweights. To me is Kelly Pavlik is close to Danny Jacobs in terms of relevance in the division if not more. Paul WIlliams
would be better than most except Jacobs and/or Canelo. Resume isn't that off to me.
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
Posted: 19 Jul 2018, 21:19
by Evander
I watched the first fight again just the other night and came to the same conclusion, a clear win for GGG.
If Canelo beats GGG in the rematch I'll be very surprised, Canelo is tough but he's not on GGG's level boxing wise.
GGG is a superb fighter, I suspect only the judges will take it away from him unless for some reason there's something wrong with him.
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
Posted: 20 Jul 2018, 03:16
by jezzamundo
Evander wrote: ↑19 Jul 2018, 21:19
I watched the first fight again just the other night and came to the same conclusion, a clear win for GGG.
If Canelo beats GGG in the rematch I'll be very surprised, Canelo is tough but he's not on GGG's level boxing wise.
GGG is a superb fighter, I suspect only the judges will take it away from him unless for some reason there's something wrong with him.
I agree it was a clear win for GGG - for me the only rounds Canelo clearly won were the 2nd and 12th - I scored it 8-4 on first viewing and 9-3 on second viewing, though I could see as close as a draw if you gave Canelo every close round.
That said, I disagree with the notion that Canelo isn't of GGG's level boxing wise. Canelo has much faster hands, better head movement, better combination punching and better defense in general and a very good chin. On the other hand, GGG has an even better, granite chin, better stamina and better power. I was also impressed with Canelo's footspeed - I thought GGG's footwork and ability to cut-off the ring would have been more of a factor. I can't see Canelo beating GGG clearly, but could see him winning a close, controversial decision.
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
Evander wrote: ↑19 Jul 2018, 21:19
I watched the first fight again just the other night and came to the same conclusion, a clear win for GGG.
If Canelo beats GGG in the rematch I'll be very surprised, Canelo is tough but he's not on GGG's level boxing wise.
GGG is a superb fighter, I suspect only the judges will take it away from him unless for some reason there's something wrong with him.
I agree it was a clear win for GGG - for me the only rounds Canelo clearly won were the 2nd and 12th - I scored it 8-4 on first viewing and 9-3 on second viewing, though I could see as close as a draw if you gave Canelo every close round.
That said, I disagree with the notion that Canelo isn't of GGG's level boxing wise. Canelo has much faster hands, better head movement, better combination punching and better defense in general and a very good chin. On the other hand, GGG has an even better, granite chin, better stamina and better power. I was also impressed with Canelo's footspeed - I thought GGG's footwork and ability to cut-off the ring would have been more of a factor. I can't see Canelo beating GGG clearly, but could see him winning a close, controversial decision.
The 12th round was rather appalling, though, for GGG. Canelo was dead tired, and he somehow managed to win that round. Severely disappointed there. Not sure if it was Abel who dropped the ball by telling GGG to be aggressive.
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
Posted: 24 Jul 2018, 15:17
by G.McClellan
Golovkin sits alongside Marvin Haglar as the greatest middleweight there's ever been. Julian "the hawk" Jackson, Mike "the body snatcher" Mccallum, James "lights out" Toney, Bernard Hopkins, Roy Junior Jones, Eubanks and Benn are all fighters who belong a rung lower on the ladder. But many of the names being thrown around in this thread don't deserve a mention when comparing them to Golovkin.
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
Posted: 24 Jul 2018, 15:47
by G.McClellan
Watching the first fight, if you didn't know the fighters and only knew only their ages you'd be forgiven for thinking Golovkin was the younger man. Canelo was on the ropes the entire fight and fought in brief spurts. Conserving energy, while soaking up sustained pressure.
Golovkin won the first fight, he'll officially win the second.
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
Posted: 24 Jul 2018, 15:52
by jamamb
usyk and loma already have better wins in way less time and fights.
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
Posted: 24 Jul 2018, 20:49
by Mexi-Box
jamamb wrote: ↑24 Jul 2018, 15:52
usyk and loma already have better wins in way less time and fights.
Neither have wins over a contemporary p4p rival like Golovkin has. Canelo is a better win than either have. And yeah, it should be a win.
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
jamamb wrote: ↑18 Jul 2018, 00:41
get your head around it kid
there were many moments in that fight where ggg was slow, easy to hit, unimaginative, and not finding the target. i just wish jacobs wouldve committed a bit more, i think he couldve made it wider
Okay, then why didn't Jacobs commit? Was it because he just didn't want to beat Golovkin clearly? He just went into the fight and said, "I can hit Golovkin at will, but I don't want to make Golovkin look too bad." Your sentence made zero sense, guy.
You barely had Jacobs beating Golovkin, yet he made him look slow and easy to hit.
Jacobs fought brave and I had him just losing but I wouldn't argue the other way. He fought a good fight and showed the way to beat the bogeyman! I still thought he just fell short though. A little bit more commitment and that was his fight but GGGs power deffo made him think twice about going Gung Ho. IMO anyway for all its worth lol....
Re: How GGG will be remembered as a fighter if Canelo beats him clearly?
Posted: 24 Jul 2018, 22:01
by Stuarty
jamamb wrote: ↑24 Jul 2018, 15:52
usyk and loma already have better wins in way less time and fights.
Nobody really knew much about GGG until he was in to double figures fight wise though! He didn't have the promotional clout behind him either...
