BoxRec

Posted: **20 Jul 2018, 08:01**

ya, and i mean beating jesse vargas (ali's original daddy) wouldve been a better win, but who the hell really thinks a win over jesse vargas is a big ass deal for a jmw?

kid looks good but ya a lot to prove. hes young and has lots of time to do it. smith is a good fight for him as its a career 154'er whose been in the title mix for a while and lasted almost 10 rounds vs canelo, not some chinny b- level welter. i highly doubt jesse vargas would battered and stopped smith.

Posted: **20 Jul 2018, 09:12**

No matter what your overall opinion is about Ali's worth, it can't be denied that he was a huge step up for Munguia, considering that the Mexican had only fought non-entities in his first 28 fights.

And Munguia didn't just defeat Ali. He demolished him in unexpectedly one sided fashion.

It's an indication that Munguia has the goods, and didn't just get lucky against a suspect champion.

If he toys with Smith tomorrow, expect most to opine that the Brit was also an unproven fighter, known for toughness but not talent..

And plenty here will continue to dismiss Munguia as being "too big" and having some sort of unfair advantage.

Remember the cries that Ali was somehow set up simply because Munguia dwarfed him in inches?

I don't know what all that means. As long as Munguia weighs in at 154 or under, the playing field appears level.

But that's the way it goes. Most fighters don't get plaudits and appreciation until their career ends.

Munguia probably won't be any different.

Munguia is slated to earn $200,000 for his first title defense. Smith takes home $75,000 for an expected beating.

Currently Munguia is a 1-8 favorite.

Posted: **20 Jul 2018, 09:33**

'superstar' munguia will get more plaudits when he earns it, so far his best win by far is vs a career welter who got beaten up and knocked out by jesse vargas, even though vargas pretty much always goes the distance, thats a simple fact. jesse vargas was too much for ali. should we give big props to jmws if they beat vargas?

smith is at least a career 154er who went 9 with canelo (not stopped in 9 by vargas), its a good fight for munguia

Posted: **20 Jul 2018, 10:01**

He trouble is that "earning it" is always difficult.

No matter who you beat, many will find some sort of spin to diminish the victory.

Ali was a huge dog to HOF fighter Cotto, and everyone just laughed at the bout, insisting that the Puerto Rican picked a tomato can so he could retire in impressive fashion.

Ali upsets the odds, and suddenly Cotto becomes a washed up, injured fighter. Ali gets no credit. It was Cotto's fault.

Then Ali opens as a strong favorite to topple Munguia, who admittedly had fought a string of nobodies.

While few were describing Ali as a great fighter, the former Olympian was considered here to be too ring savvy for the green Mexican.

Munguia wipes out Ali--steamrolled him--and quickly Ali's abilities are ridiculed and Munguia is condemned for having some sort of vague size advantage.

Again, no credit to Munguia.

As for Ali being a career welter before challenging Cotto, that's true.

But don't forget that practically all fighters grow and move up in weight during the course of their career.

Ali was 28 when he dethroned Cotto. Maybe it was time for him to enter the 154 pound division. Like other fighters, it was a natural physical progression.

And don't forget, for the bulk of his career, Munguia was also a welterweight. He didn't move to super welter until about a year before the Ali fight.

When his name was thrown into the Golovkin sweepstakes for the Cinco de Mayo card, many pundits brought up that Munguia had been nothing more than a 147 pounder for most of his career.

Posted: **20 Jul 2018, 10:12**

theres really no need to complicate it, sadam ali at 154 as your best win by miles isnt that impressive or 'superstar' like. naturally it will be expected that you have a lot more to prove to show your truly an elite talent . if charlo or hurd or lara knocked out jesse vargas rightfully few would care id think, yet vargas ko'd ali

munguias obviously getting credit seeing as how big of a favourite he is now over smith, just for beating a guy jessie vargas was clearly superior to and knocked out not long before. of course the odds wouldnt be that way if he wasnt getting credit at all. a bit strange to act like superstar munguias really unfairly treated and will be for time to come, slow the eff down on forcing out that narrative

ya i remember ali in the olympics at 132, watched him live, got dominated by a romanian guy who looked handy

Posted: **20 Jul 2018, 22:51**

SFW wrote: ↑20 Jul 2018, 02:13 Wtf is this, an alternate dimension? That sasquatch beating up little Ali somehow became a huge statement? Wow I've heard some bullshit in my day but gotta stand back in awe of that one..

Cotto was admittedly done, retirement was on his mind and mouth well before he tried to go out with a safer option in Ali. He busts his arm, and gets outhustled barely by a guy who was extremely fortunate just to be there. Beating that Cotto, a compromised one foot out the door Cotto, is not the win some want to believe it was. It was a gutsy performance and win by a decent fighter, but the name recognition is clouding the validity there. It wasn't a shock in the least when Ali got destroyed by a prime Jr. Middleweight, seeing as how he's a 147lb fighter and already found a way to get destroyed down there. By a purse puncher no less.. so in closing, no that is not some statement win a title changed hands that's the only notable element. And Munguia looks the goods, he's solid. Can't know for sure til the tough challenges come. Ali sure as eff isn't it.

Here comes another moron shooting from the hip. Compare that win to the top 2 fighters. Stop pussy-footing around and debate the point I made or bend down on one knee to the king.

By the way, Cotto was a massive favorite going into the Ali fight. Show me your post where you stated that Cotto was garbage and Ali was going to win. I'll wait.

Posted: **20 Jul 2018, 22:55**

lol jesse vargas would be a win over a better fighter. adrien broner would beat ali, lamont peterson prob would too.

bend down on one knee to the king.

kind of like ali did to his daddy vargas?

Posted: **20 Jul 2018, 23:12**

jamamb wrote: ↑20 Jul 2018, 22:55 lol jesse vargas would be a win over a better fighter. adrien broner would beat ali, lamont peterson prob would too.

bend down on one knee to the king.
kind of like ali did to his daddy vargas?

I like how you never reply me. Instead you just shy away like a little weasel. Keep on making dumb points because you're too afraid of my intellect going one-on-one in a debate again. I'd hose you like I did when you came out and said something stupid about Golovkin.

You're like 0-10 against me for life.

Posted: **20 Jul 2018, 23:25**

ya sure bro..whatever you say champ..im sure youve won everything ever on your own internet argument card

and what were you saying about getting on a knee for the king

jesse 'daddy' vargas Is better then ali. jesse doesnt stop a lot of guys but he made sure to beat around and stop sadam. just facts. seems as though that hurts some ppl here though. its fne guys...your superstar monster mungua has plenty of time to prove worthy of those labels. smiths a good fight for mung.

Posted: **21 Jul 2018, 02:56**

SenorPipino wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018, 11:53 Pipino Cuevas was just 18 years old and green when he quickly destroyed respected WBA welterweight king Angel Espada.

Pipino was coming off a 10 round schooling by Andy Price, and was expected to be a an easy victim for Espada.

It didn't turn out that way and Cuevas went on to terrorize welterweights for the next 4 years.

Don't expect Munguia to falter Saturday. Smith is a tough guy but hardly special.

How long it goes simply depends on how much punishment the challenger can endure.

I doubt anyone here knows about Pipino Cuevas but thanks and its an interesting comparison. As long as Munguia doesnt fall in love with his power and learns to assert his skills over top opposition he will do well IMO. Comparisons can also be made with a very young Yori Boy Campas who also burst on the scene with a spectacular KO record.

Posted: **21 Jul 2018, 06:13**

Luckybattles wrote: ↑21 Jul 2018, 02:56
SenorPipino wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018, 11:53 Pipino Cuevas was just 18 years old and green when he quickly destroyed respected WBA welterweight king Angel Espada.

Pipino was coming off a 10 round schooling by Andy Price, and was expected to be a an easy victim for Espada.

It didn't turn out that way and Cuevas went on to terrorize welterweights for the next 4 years.

Don't expect Munguia to falter Saturday. Smith is a tough guy but hardly special.

How long it goes simply depends on how much punishment the challenger can endure.

I doubt anyone here knows about Pipino Cuevas but thanks and its an interesting comparison. As long as Munguia doesnt fall in love with his power and learns to assert his skills over top opposition he will do well IMO. Comparisons can also be made with a very young Yori Boy Campas who also burst on the scene with a spectacular KO record.

No one here knows about Pipino Cuevas?

Surely you jest

There's guys here who can give you a detailed rundown of the career of obscure fighters from the 1920s.

Cuevas may have retired about 30 years ago, but I think his career achievements are very familiar to the majority of posters here.

As for Campas, he actually had quite a bit of hype as he entered his title fight opportunity against Trinidad.

Thought by many to be the next great Mexican fighter.

A spectacular record of 56-0 with 50 KOs heading into the shot at Trinidad.. However like Munguia, his record was built up against mainly journeymen.

His one win vs a contender--albeit of the fringe variety--came against Roger Turner on a PPV undercard bout.

As I recall, it wasn't a very spectacular performance, with Campas struggling to a decision victory.

Unlike Munguia, Campas fell short when he received his first title opportunity.

But admittedly he faced a stiffer challenge than Munguia, being nearly decapitated by Tito Trinindad in 4 rounds.

Posted: **21 Jul 2018, 06:55**

No one knows what Munguia is yet. Ali is a solid fighter and it was pretty shocking to see how easily Munguia not only beat him but almost killed him. But let's not crap on a guy because he got his butt handed to him by a guy that happened to be better than him on fight night. Munguia does seem to be extremely large for this division. That is not up for debate.

Let's not get crazy about Smith. Sure he made it to round 9 with Canelo but he was getting his butt handed to him the whole fight and I didn't have him winning a round. If Munguia is as good as they you all say then this fight won't make 4 rounds.

Posted: **21 Jul 2018, 10:00**

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑20 Jul 2018, 22:51
SFW wrote: ↑20 Jul 2018, 02:13 Wtf is this, an alternate dimension? That sasquatch beating up little Ali somehow became a huge statement? Wow I've heard some bullshit in my day but gotta stand back in awe of that one..

Cotto was admittedly done, retirement was on his mind and mouth well before he tried to go out with a safer option in Ali. He busts his arm, and gets outhustled barely by a guy who was extremely fortunate just to be there. Beating that Cotto, a compromised one foot out the door Cotto, is not the win some want to believe it was. It was a gutsy performance and win by a decent fighter, but the name recognition is clouding the validity there. It wasn't a shock in the least when Ali got destroyed by a prime Jr. Middleweight, seeing as how he's a 147lb fighter and already found a way to get destroyed down there. By a purse puncher no less.. so in closing, no that is not some statement win a title changed hands that's the only notable element. And Munguia looks the goods, he's solid. Can't know for sure til the tough challenges come. Ali sure as eff isn't it.
Here comes another moron shooting from the hip. Compare that win to the top 2 fighters. Stop pussy-footing around and debate the point I made or bend down on one knee to the king.

By the way, Cotto was a massive favorite going into the Ali fight. Show me your post where you stated that Cotto was garbage and Ali was going to win. I'll wait.

Listen sweetheart you can make up whatever you want and pretend that's the truth, don't mean a damn thing. Favorites, odds, that's for the degenerative gamblers. Cotto was a favorite based on who he is, not the actual state he is in (which was clearly deteriorated), and Ali not being known. Simple as that. Add in a serious injury, more circumstance you want to conveniently ignore.. At 154 Trout, Charlo, Lara, Jackson, Hurd, J-Rock, Vanes, Sulceki bounces back and forth 54-60, Ali beats NONE of them. Cotto at this/that point beats NONE of them. Cotto bcause he's worn out, and Ali isn't a true jr. Middleweight. I'm sorry lol no, I'm rarely here and not a post whore people actually have thoughts an dont have to post them lol cuz nobody has to prove shit to fit your gutless fantasy. Self proclaimed king lol, more like nob gobbler with delusions of grandeur. You are free to wait til that empty head recharges, good talk.

Posted: **21 Jul 2018, 12:41**

SenorPipino wrote: ↑21 Jul 2018, 06:13
Luckybattles wrote: ↑21 Jul 2018, 02:56
SenorPipino wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018, 11:53 Pipino Cuevas was just 18 years old and green when he quickly destroyed respected WBA welterweight king Angel Espada.

Pipino was coming off a 10 round schooling by Andy Price, and was expected to be a an easy victim for Espada.

It didn't turn out that way and Cuevas went on to terrorize welterweights for the next 4 years.

Don't expect Munguia to falter Saturday. Smith is a tough guy but hardly special.

How long it goes simply depends on how much punishment the challenger can endure.

I doubt anyone here knows about Pipino Cuevas but thanks and its an interesting comparison. As long as Munguia doesnt fall in love with his power and learns to assert his skills over top opposition he will do well IMO. Comparisons can also be made with a very young Yori Boy Campas who also burst on the scene with a spectacular KO record.
No one here knows about Pipino Cuevas?

Surely you jest

There's guys here who can give you a detailed rundown of the career of obscure fighters from the 1920s.

Cuevas may have retired about 30 years ago, but I think his career achievements are very familiar to the majority of posters here.

As for Campas, he actually had quite a bit of hype as he entered his title fight opportunity against Trinidad.

Thought by many to be the next great Mexican fighter.

A spectacular record of 56-0 with 50 KOs heading into the shot at Trinidad.. However like Munguia, his record was built up against mainly journeymen.

His one win vs a contender--albeit of the fringe variety--came against Roger Turner on a PPV undercard bout.

As I recall, it wasn't a very spectacular performance, with Campas struggling to a decision victory.

Unlike Munguia, Campas fell short when he received his first title opportunity.

But admittedly he faced a stiffer challenge than Munguia, being nearly decapitated by Tito Trinindad in 4 rounds.

I remember the turner fight. One glimpse at campas and it was clearly evident that he lacked the explosiveness typically associated with the prodigious power suggested by his record. As far as Pipino, he belongs to a generation of great Mexican fighters that were recognize for their relentless pressure and ability to overwhelm superior technique. However, this characterization of Mexican fighters changed around the time of Pipino Cuevas with the new generation of Mexicans like Chavez and Finito Lopez ushering in a type of rebirth that was carried in by the likes of Erik Morales and Marquez. I think the KO of Pipino by Hearns changed the landscape of Mexican boxing for the best. It was a wake up call. “ no puedes entrar tirando putasos como loco aunque seas el cabron mas chingon”

Posted: **21 Jul 2018, 12:43**

Luckybattles wrote: ↑21 Jul 2018, 12:41
SenorPipino wrote: ↑21 Jul 2018, 06:13
Luckybattles wrote: ↑21 Jul 2018, 02:56

I doubt anyone here knows about Pipino Cuevas but thanks and its an interesting comparison. As long as Munguia doesnt fall in love with his power and learns to assert his skills over top opposition he will do well IMO. Comparisons can also be made with a very young Yori Boy Campas who also burst on the scene with a spectacular KO record.
No one here knows about Pipino Cuevas?

Surely you jest

There's guys here who can give you a detailed rundown of the career of obscure fighters from the 1920s.

Cuevas may have retired about 30 years ago, but I think his career achievements are very familiar to the majority of posters here.

As for Campas, he actually had quite a bit of hype as he entered his title fight opportunity against Trinidad.

Thought by many to be the next great Mexican fighter.

A spectacular record of 56-0 with 50 KOs heading into the shot at Trinidad.. However like Munguia, his record was built up against mainly journeymen.

His one win vs a contender--albeit of the fringe variety--came against Roger Turner on a PPV undercard bout.

As I recall, it wasn't a very spectacular performance, with Campas struggling to a decision victory.

Unlike Munguia, Campas fell short when he received his first title opportunity.

But admittedly he faced a stiffer challenge than Munguia, being nearly decapitated by Tito Trinindad in 4 rounds.
I remember the turner fight. One glimpse at campas and it was clearly evident that he lacked the explosiveness typically associated with the prodigious power suggested by his record. As far as Pipino, he belongs to a generation of great Mexican fighters that were recognize for their relentless pressure and ability to overwhelm superior technique. However, this characterization of Mexican fighters changed around the time of Pipino Cuevas with the new generation of Mexicans like Chavez and Finito Lopez ushering in a type of rebirth that was carried on by the likes of Erik Morales and Marquez. I think the KO of Pipino by Hearns changed the landscape of Mexican boxing for the best. It was a wake up call. “ no puedes entrar tirando putasos como loco aunque seas el cabron mas chingon”

Posted: **21 Jul 2018, 12:45**

Luckybattles wrote: ↑21 Jul 2018, 12:43
Luckybattles wrote: ↑21 Jul 2018, 12:41
SenorPipino wrote: ↑21 Jul 2018, 06:13

No one here knows about Pipino Cuevas?

Surely you jest

There's guys here who can give you a detailed rundown of the career of obscure fighters from the 1920s.

Cuevas may have retired about 30 years ago, but I think his career achievements are very familiar to the majority of posters here.

As for Campas, he actually had quite a bit of hype as he entered his title fight opportunity against Trinidad.

Thought by many to be the next great Mexican fighter.

A spectacular record of 56-0 with 50 KOs heading into the shot at Trinidad.. However like Munguia, his record was built up against mainly journeymen.

His one win vs a contender--albeit of the fringe variety--came against Roger Turner on a PPV undercard bout.

As I recall, it wasn't a very spectacular performance, with Campas struggling to a decision victory.

Unlike Munguia, Campas fell short when he received his first title opportunity.

But admittedly he faced a stiffer challenge than Munguia, being nearly decapitated by Tito Trinindad in 4 rounds.
I remember the turner fight. One glimpse at campas and it was clearly evident that he lacked the explosiveness typically associated with the prodigious power suggested by his record. As far as Pipino, he belongs to a generation of great Mexican fighters that were recognize for their relentless pressure and ability to overwhelm superior technique. However, this characterization of Mexican fighters changed around the time of Pipino Cuevas with the new generation of Mexicans like Chavez and Finito Lopez ushering in a type of stylistic and technical rebirth that was carried on by the likes of Erik Morales and Marquez. I think the KO of Pipino by Hearns changed the landscape of Mexican boxing for the best. It was a wake up call. “ no puedes entrar tirando putasos como loco aunque seas el cabron mas chingon”

Posted: **21 Jul 2018, 16:24**

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑19 Jul 2018, 23:44
world ranked wrote: ↑19 Jul 2018, 18:20
Mexi-Box wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018, 21:42

You're crazy and are obviously looking in hindsight. Nobody thought Cotto was at the top of the division, but he wasn't shot and looked as a good fight for any of the top guys. When Ali won, it was called an upset for a reason, ffs. Please show me a post of yours from when the fight was taking place where you thought Ali would win.
He wasn't shot. But an upset happens at every level of a division and most has nothing to do with the top the division. My point is beaten Ali isn't big win in scheme of the division neither will beating Liam Smith.
In the scheme of things, it was a big win. Only two other fighters currently have wins that *maybe* rival Sadam Ali. Hurd's entire resume, of course, is probably the best in the division, but Charlo, maybe.

Charlo's best win is either shot Austin Trout, Erickson Lubin, or John Jackson.

Those are the top two guys currently and Munguia's win over Ali is arguably better than Charlo's best win.

I'm not including Lara, btw.

Munguia over Ali (a welterweight) some how is a better win than a trout or even Lubin is crazy.

Posted: **21 Jul 2018, 16:45**

This will be a tough fight, mark my words.... Smith may not win, but we will see a fight

Posted: **21 Jul 2018, 20:41**

Mungai is a -1800 fave tonight. Man they are really overblowing that Ali win. Ali was a fat blown up welter basically fighting a middleweight. Liam is probably not the guy to beat him but If he blows him out too that will be more telling for me.

Posted: **21 Jul 2018, 23:30**

Slugfest! Smith doing very well. If munguia punches himself out which may be the case.....he can win!

Posted: **21 Jul 2018, 23:38**

Munguia a very emotional fighter.....good fight though.

Posted: **21 Jul 2018, 23:41**

ya good fight, way more of a fight then mung vs ali was

Posted: **21 Jul 2018, 23:42**

100%

Smith is taking a beating now. Saved by the bell.

Posted: **21 Jul 2018, 23:46**

Holy cow. Munguia teeing off on smith like he’s a punching bag. Such aggression!

Posted: **21 Jul 2018, 23:54**

Rd 9, brawl rd of the year.

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