The Eamonn Magee Book is Incredible....but how good was he in your opinion?

[jamamb]

what were his best wins aside from nery and thaxton

[Noxy]

what were his best wins aside from nery and thaxton

Jimmy Vincent

[thepocketrocket]

what were his best wins aside from nery and thaxton

Pretty big wins at the time they were.....Neary was huge at the time, but because a strong pressure fighter from Manchester came along soon after, he was soon forgotten

[jamamb]

ya not bad wins at all, also magee had his moments in losses with good fighters.

[thepocketrocket]

ya not bad wins at all, also magee had his moments in losses with good fighters.

Oh, deffo....considering most Euro title holders are pretty damn average in the grand scheme of things, to run into Oktay Urkal was bad luck

[Twinkle Toes]

I think the Urkal fight was his best performance, but it also highlighted his flaws.

He was aggressive in that fight, but when forced to work on the front foot he wasn't overly accurate and looked a bit wild. I don't think he was a defensive wizard either and could be hit quite easily. Quite willing to take a few to try and land one.

He was a talent, but I think we saw the best he had to offer.

[thepocketrocket]

I think the Urkal fight was his best performance, but it also highlighted his flaws.

He was aggressive in that fight, but when forced to work on the front foot he wasn't overly accurate and looked a bit wild. I don't think he was a defensive wizard either and could be hit quite easily. Quite willing to take a few to try and land one.

He was a talent, but I think we saw the best he had to offer.

Your appraisal of the Urkal fight is correct I say...I had it close but no issue that Urkal got it...dominated the middle rounds.

The Euro title definitely used to be stronger. Now the likes of Urkal would have a 'world' title somewhere, maybe the WBA and their multi layers. Maybe Magee would. He would certainly not be fighting someone of Urkal's class at Euro level any more.

[banjo]

There's a chance he could have pulled off an upset over a world name like Viv Harris or someone like Kelson Pinto but that's about it, I reckon he'd have beaten Witter.

He had a chance to KO Hatton after Ricky charged in like a madman at the start but once Billy Graham calmed him down he outboxed Magee quite comfortably.

[Terminator666]

One bit in the book mentions a time when Scott Harrison was staying with Magee- imagine those two together- “crisps everywhere “

[Matt W]

The problem with this type of speculation is that you're trying to separate the inseparable.
Bizarrely it seems to only happen with mental situations rather than physical ones e.g. you never see a thread saying 'how far do you think Billy Joe Saunders could go if he could punch like Nigel Benn?' That's because people know he can't and so view it as a pointless debate. But this is almost always true in those cases that are more mental rather than physical as well.
The bottom line is that Magee's lifestyle and its consequent impact on his performances was a direct reflection of who he was - as much a part of his DNA as his southpaw stance.

I totally agree with this. IMO Mike Tyson has been a huge beneficiary of this. Obviously he was a brilliant fighter but he seems to be elevated by many as his losses get blamed on outside influences, not training hard enough etc. But that comes down to lifestyle and discipline and lacking in those departments is, in my opinion, no more of an excuse than having a glass jaw is. These mental or other factors are as much a part of the fighter's character and make-up as their physical attributes and a fighter should be judged ultimately on what he achieved, not on how good he could have been had he been more dedicated. Don't get me wrong, it makes for interesting debate and I understand why we do it, but when it comes down to placing a fighter's achievements what matters is what a fighter did, not what they could have done but for x,y or z.

[Jackson328]

The problem with this type of speculation is that you're trying to separate the inseparable.
Bizarrely it seems to only happen with mental situations rather than physical ones e.g. you never see a thread saying 'how far do you think Billy Joe Saunders could go if he could punch like Nigel Benn?' That's because people know he can't and so view it as a pointless debate. But this is almost always true in those cases that are more mental rather than physical as well.
The bottom line is that Magee's lifestyle and its consequent impact on his performances was a direct reflection of who he was - as much a part of his DNA as his southpaw stance.

I totally agree with this. IMO Mike Tyson has been a huge beneficiary of this. Obviously he was a brilliant fighter but he seems to be elevated by many as his losses get blamed on outside influences, not training hard enough etc. But that comes down to lifestyle and discipline and lacking in those departments is, in my opinion, no more of an excuse than having a glass jaw is. These mental or other factors are as much a part of the fighter's character and make-up as their physical attributes and a fighter should be judged ultimately on what he achieved, not on how good he could have been had he been more dedicated. Don't get me wrong, it makes for interesting debate and I understand why we do it, but when it comes down to placing a fighter's achievements what matters is what a fighter did, not what they could have done but for x,y or z.

Thats such a great post, closes out the debate emphatically for me. Every fighter that ever lived could say "what if I had this or that in my locker" but we can really only deal in reality and the mental side of the game is as important as the physical.

We all coulda been a contender ya know

[mickeyb]

The problem with this type of speculation is that you're trying to separate the inseparable.
Bizarrely it seems to only happen with mental situations rather than physical ones e.g. you never see a thread saying 'how far do you think Billy Joe Saunders could go if he could punch like Nigel Benn?' That's because people know he can't and so view it as a pointless debate. But this is almost always true in those cases that are more mental rather than physical as well.
The bottom line is that Magee's lifestyle and its consequent impact on his performances was a direct reflection of who he was - as much a part of his DNA as his southpaw stance.

I totally agree with this. IMO Mike Tyson has been a huge beneficiary of this. Obviously he was a brilliant fighter but he seems to be elevated by many as his losses get blamed on outside influences, not training hard enough etc. But that comes down to lifestyle and discipline and lacking in those departments is, in my opinion, no more of an excuse than having a glass jaw is. These mental or other factors are as much a part of the fighter's character and make-up as their physical attributes and a fighter should be judged ultimately on what he achieved, not on how good he could have been had he been more dedicated. Don't get me wrong, it makes for interesting debate and I understand why we do it, but when it comes down to placing a fighter's achievements what matters is what a fighter did, not what they could have done but for x,y or z.

Thats such a great post, closes out the debate emphatically for me. Every fighter that ever lived could say "what if I had this or that in my locker" but we can really only deal in reality and the mental side of the game is as important as the physical.

We all coulda been a contender ya know

Exactly. If I wasn't a fat, slow, lazy, non-punching, cowardly midget, I would've kicked fornicate out of that bum Tyson Fury...

[brilo33]

Defo have to read it. All i remember reading and the obvious is thst he grew up with a lot of stuff going on around him.surprised he got as far as he did.remember the Hatton fight . Cheering on Magee

[thepocketrocket]

The problem with this type of speculation is that you're trying to separate the inseparable.
Bizarrely it seems to only happen with mental situations rather than physical ones e.g. you never see a thread saying 'how far do you think Billy Joe Saunders could go if he could punch like Nigel Benn?' That's because people know he can't and so view it as a pointless debate. But this is almost always true in those cases that are more mental rather than physical as well.
The bottom line is that Magee's lifestyle and its consequent impact on his performances was a direct reflection of who he was - as much a part of his DNA as his southpaw stance.

I totally agree with this. IMO Mike Tyson has been a huge beneficiary of this. Obviously he was a brilliant fighter but he seems to be elevated by many as his losses get blamed on outside influences, not training hard enough etc. But that comes down to lifestyle and discipline and lacking in those departments is, in my opinion, no more of an excuse than having a glass jaw is. These mental or other factors are as much a part of the fighter's character and make-up as their physical attributes and a fighter should be judged ultimately on what he achieved, not on how good he could have been had he been more dedicated. Don't get me wrong, it makes for interesting debate and I understand why we do it, but when it comes down to placing a fighter's achievements what matters is what a fighter did, not what they could have done but for x,y or z.

Thats such a great post, closes out the debate emphatically for me. Every fighter that ever lived could say "what if I had this or that in my locker" but we can really only deal in reality and the mental side of the game is as important as the physical.

We all coulda been a contender ya know

Maybe I wasn't clear in my original post, or maybe you are guilty reading the title and jumping to the end.

The post was never 'how good could Magee have been if he wasn't drunk?'....I was asking if those who had seen him, like me, were expecting more from him, when in fact he may have been a cagey counter-puncher who was never going to have that much of a work rate, drunk or not. Therefore he could have maybe reached his natural level, irrespective of drink and lifestyle. The book implies he was cut off at the knees because of drink...that may be flawed style wise

Had some good answers though...

[Terminator666]

I’ve just finished reading the book- anyone fancies a freebie - pm me

[brilo33]

I’ve just finished reading the book- anyone fancies a freebie - pm me

what she look like

[Jackson328]

I totally agree with this. IMO Mike Tyson has been a huge beneficiary of this. Obviously he was a brilliant fighter but he seems to be elevated by many as his losses get blamed on outside influences, not training hard enough etc. But that comes down to lifestyle and discipline and lacking in those departments is, in my opinion, no more of an excuse than having a glass jaw is. These mental or other factors are as much a part of the fighter's character and make-up as their physical attributes and a fighter should be judged ultimately on what he achieved, not on how good he could have been had he been more dedicated. Don't get me wrong, it makes for interesting debate and I understand why we do it, but when it comes down to placing a fighter's achievements what matters is what a fighter did, not what they could have done but for x,y or z.

Thats such a great post, closes out the debate emphatically for me. Every fighter that ever lived could say "what if I had this or that in my locker" but we can really only deal in reality and the mental side of the game is as important as the physical.

We all coulda been a contender ya know

Maybe I wasn't clear in my original post, or maybe you are guilty reading the title and jumping to the end.

The post was never 'how good could Magee have been if he wasn't drunk?'....I was asking if those who had seen him, like me, were expecting more from him, when in fact he may have been a cagey counter-puncher who was never going to have that much of a work rate, drunk or not. Therefore he could have maybe reached his natural level, irrespective of drink and lifestyle. The book implies he was cut off at the knees because of drink...that may be flawed style wise

Had some good answers though...

Fair enough. I think he had lots of natural talent and under-achieved in his career but its hard to imagine what he could have done if not for the drink as it seemed to be his nemesis. I remember a photo of him after the Hatton fight when Ricky had gone to his dressing room to thank him for a great contest and there was Magee swigging a can of cider! Hardly the correct way to rehydrate after a gruelling contest but seemed to sum him up.

[TheGoods]

What a book this is! Seems true he was on the drink 3+ times a week for Hatton. Madness if so for a fight of that magnitude. Got his training right for Thaxton and beat him easy. Deffo a ‘What if?’ Scenario and maybe he knew Hatton was too good and so messing around in build up was his get out? Just as easy tho would be a mindset of ‘Ive Just toyed with a fighter Hatton went life and death with’ why shouldn’t have have a few drinks? Amazing story. Can’t get my head round him refusing the box-off for Barcelona 92 out of principle! The kid he beat (then refused a box off with) then lost in the prelims.

I think he was unlucky not to win a proper world title but didn’t do himself any favours with his lifestyle.

Ps can’t get the image out of my head of him smoking outside the MEN an hour before his Hatton and eye-balling the Manc fans as they made their way in Haha

[jamamb]

dont know what he ever did to prove that he was remotely close to a world class talent who shouldve won a major world title. he was a tough guy but euro at best. his best wins were prob thaxton and nery....way off world level...and he wasnt able to beat a good euro operator such as urkal. seems a bit that maybe all these stories help pump up his rep.

[TheGoods]

It’s all hypothetical of course but he would have beat the likes of Maurice Hooker in a craic. Magee was a genuine talent and hard as nails. Boxed his entire career with an alcohol problem so to answer the OP when he was good he was very, very good. But when he was bad he was ‘orrid!

[jamamb]

ya, i mean maybe if we cherry pick the weakest champs over several years he couldve beat some of them, but to me it would be more like 'eamon magee was lucky to have been around at that time where he was able to beat this crap champ'

magee was around in the multi belt era. but he never really won above domestic level and he lost lost when he stepped above that. to me its just such a stretch to act like he was some hard done guy who really was a world level fighter who just never got the chance. if he was as legit as you say he couldve beaten a guy like urkal to earn a world title shot and then won that too. but he lost, and he lost to hatton, and he lost to 4 other guys who werent close to world class. jono thaxton and nery are way off world level wins

his mentality was part of him as a fighter, it cant be seperated

[coneye]

Thing is you are what you are , theres a million gym stories of this kid , that kid , who could off , would off and should off , but not being a good trainer is nnot a reason its an excuse .

[Coco]

Re-iterating what has been already said, he could have been a champ if he could punch, wasn't chinny etc
The fact is Magee didn't have the mentality to be a champ even in the alphabet era. Of course a quality fighter, but no more.
Often too some fighters drink, don't train etc to give themselves a ready made excuse for not making it. It's another part of self doubt.

[Fray Bentos]

I personally thought Shea Neary won that fight of theirs.

[mickey1975]

Re-iterating what has been already said, he could have been a champ if he could punch, wasn't chinny etc
The fact is Magee didn't have the mentality to be a champ even in the alphabet era. Of course a quality fighter, but no more.
Often too some fighters drink, don't train etc to give themselves a ready made excuse for not making it. It's another part of self doubt.

There is that but Magee is an extreme case.