Ortiz vs Whyte would be one intriguing fight - who wins this ?

[candyslim]

Never heard that one but I'm sure he's every bit as capable (of doing that) as Lawrence Okolie or Daniel Dubois.

[ValMar]

Never heard that one but I'm sure he's every bit as capable (of doing that) as Lawrence Okolie or Daniel Dubois.

I read this, not so long ago, but I don't believe. I will not be suprised if I read/hear by the end of this year, that Billy Joe Sanders dropped Joshua on sparring.

[punchoutsb]

Never heard that one but I'm sure he's every bit as capable (of doing that) as Lawrence Okolie or Daniel Dubois.

I read this, not so long ago, but I don't believe. I will not be suprised if I read/hear by the end of this year, that Billy Joe Sanders dropped Joshua on sparring.

Why don't you believe it? Fighters spar thousands of rounds over their careers. A lot can happen when you're learning new approaches or trying new ways of doing things.

[candyslim]

Never heard that one but I'm sure he's every bit as capable (of doing that) as Lawrence Okolie or Daniel Dubois.

I read this, not so long ago, but I don't believe. I will not be suprised if I read/hear by the end of this year, that Billy Joe Sanders dropped Joshua on sparring.

[DrDuke]

Right now it seems more intriguing, than few moments before. Whyte has improved, while Ortiz's stamina is under a big question mark. So the possibility of Whyte to take Ortiz into the late rounds and win there is pretty big.

[keithmoonhangover]

A fight against Ortiz is more something for a 5-0 UK novice.

Can I have a pint of what you've had?

Do you expect Joe Joyce to lose against him?

Yes. Ortiz is genuine top 10 contender. You're either drunk or high or both.

[Enlightened-One]

Ortiz vs Whyte would be one intriguing fight...

This fight isn't going to happen in the short-term. There's no reason for it. Both fighters don't want it and neither do fight fans.

It might be a decent match-up, but it doesn't make any business sense for Ortiz & Whyte, since they can earn more money and take smaller risks by facing easier opponents... and still receive a shot at one of the world titles within the next twelve months.

[keithmoonhangover]

Joe Joyce is a genuine top contender

Not according to the WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO, Ring Magazine or BoxRec. So Joyce ain't a 'genuine' top ten contender is he? If he was he'd be in the top ten.

[lillywhite14]

Whyte.

Ortiz hasn’t beaten anybody of note and time has run out for him unfortunately.

[Thomastearns]

I'd go for Ortiz late stoppage. Surprisingly for a man of his age he looked in better physical condition than Whyte did last weekend.

I doubt whether Whyte could bully or push Ortiz around the way he did to Parker, and there's no argument over who's the better technician.

Difficult also to see who actually wants to face Ortiz, but if anyone does it could well be Dillian Whyte.

[candyslim]

Ortiz vs Whyte would be one intriguing fight...

This fight isn't going to happen in the short-term. There's no reason for it. Both fighters don't want it and neither do fight fans.

It might be a decent match-up, but it doesn't make any business sense for Ortiz & Whyte, since they can earn more money and take smaller risks by facing easier opponents... and still receive a shot at one of the world titles within the next twelve months.

Not denying your logic EO but when have normal sensible considerations like business sense and risk/reward ratios ever meant a tu'ppeny damn to Dillian Whyte?

Joe Joyce is a genuine top contender

Not according to the WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO, Ring Magazine or BoxRec. So Joyce ain't a 'genuine' top ten contender is he? If he was he'd be in the top ten.

To get a rating you need to (sign with Haymon or) beat a rated or at least respected fighter or two. This is a difficult achievement when rated fighters don't want to face you. Both Chisora and Miller have declined to fight Joyce and that's just those on the record.. His best bet might be to pursue someone with massive bollocks and a relatively underdeveloped self-preservation instinct, Dillian Whyte come on down !

Talking of people who are not short in the testicular department, I wonder if Usyk fancies a re-match once he has retired Mr Bellew. It might appeal to both of them (boxers that is not gonads )

[ewenhay]

Do you expect Joe Joyce to lose against him?

Yes. Ortiz is genuine top 10 contender. You're either drunk or high or both.

Joe Joyce is a genuine top contender and TBH I think Ortiz is downgrading hard, he'll probably lose against anyone in the boxrec top 10 (except for himself ofcourse) and even a few outside of the top 10.

Joe Joyce is not a genuine top contender apart from on your top 15 heavyweight list which is just a list of your favourite heavyweights

[candyslim]

My estimation of how Joyce fares against the top heavyweights for what it's worth:

Anthony Joshua: Has too much of everything for Joe Joyce but would need to respect Joyce's power and keep a watch on his (own) fuel gauge.

Deontay Wilder: is much faster, more athletic and hits harder. Joyce is probably more resistant to Deontay's power than AJ would be, although much easier to hit. Both have good stamina. It could go the distance but I think Wilder's speed could be the deciding factor. Joyce is better than almost all Wilder's victims though.

Alexandr Povetkin: Hard to know how much he has left. Even at 38 he is quicker than Joyce, and he is a skilful boxer not easy to catch clean, even while pressing forward. Giving away height, reach, and youth. I don't think 2018 Povetkin stops Joyce and I doubt he outlasts him. Joyce is my choyce.

Dillian Whyte: I think he'd be well advised to steer clear. He might have the power to put away Joyce but it's doubtful. He would be conceding about 2" in height against an experienced amateur who has good basic skills when he cares to use them, and he isn't going to be the stronger finisher.

Oleksandr Usyk : Boxed Joyce's ears off for a 5 round points decision. Both have great stamina and I fancy Usyk to repeat the feat over the longer professional distance.

Tyson Fury: At his best far too mobile and quick. Joyce would have a puncher's chance, he hits a lot harder than Cunningham, but then Klitschko hit harder than Cunningham or Joyce. At the moment though Fury is way short of his best and I doubt he could stay with him.

Joe Parker: Another hard to predict. Parker is much the quicker not that it kept him out of trouble from Whyte's jab. I doubt Joyce put's him under as much pressure, but he has height and reach and will not go missing during the middle rounds. Could go either way.

Jarrell Miller: Has already declined to face Joyce not that I blame him. Why risk his ranking against someone of so few pro fights. Fight Ortiz Jarrell, he can't live with you now. This Miller v Joyce would be a cracking fight though, Both have good stamina, it would be Joyce with the height, reach and power advantages against the relentless aggression of the volume puncher. A difficult one to pick.

Dominic Breazeale: Two fighters of similar size, (lack of) speed, toughness. I think Joyce is equal or better in most areas notably technique. A win for Joyce.

Agit Kabayel: A tidy boxer but hasn't really done anything much. Lewandowski, Hubeaux, Chisora's his best win and i believe a Chisora who's up for it (like in the Whyte and Takam fights) would be too much for him. So would Joyce be.

Hughie Fury: Could be a real handful for Joyce. He won't hurt him but he can outbox him and outspeed him. I fancy Hughie to win provided he does some hitting as well as evading.

Andy Ruiz Jnr: Tough one to pick because Ruiz hasn't fought enough. Did well against Parker but that's about it. He's a good boxer and tough, but Joyce has all the physical advantages. I lean toward Joyce.

Dereck Chisora: Has already turned down the fight. Nothing to be gained for Dereck. He'd pose a lot of problems forJoyce though if he's motivated and well prepared but I fancy Joyce has too much quality.

Christian Hammer: No chance. Joe is better in every way, except speed and has the physical advantages to make up for that.

Manuel Charr: I see him and Hammer is very similar. Same goes for Charr. Maybe has an edge in skills but Joe is altogether too much for him.

Carlos Takam: Doesn't hit hard enough to stop Joe, won't outlast him, and Joe has height, reach, bulk, and should win comfortably .

Johann Duhaupas: Big and tough but Joyce has too much for him. He's the better schooled boxer.

Mariusz Wach: See Duhaupas. Very similar strengths and weaknesses plus Wach's best years are behind him.

Bryant Jennings: Much the smaller man. Won't match Joe for physicality but his mobility could set Joe some problems. He has some convincing to do before I'd consider picking him over Joyce though.

Bermane Stiverne: It's ok his inclusion is just a joke, and these days so is he.

Filip Hrgovic: This guy is going to emerge as a power in the division within a year or two. Very good boxer. I'd take him to outpoint Joe.

Gerald Washington: Not got the necessary mental strength. Joe discourages and stops him.

Amir Mansour: One tough s.o.b. but surely he's done now.

I could go on and on but I'll spare you.

[ValMar]

Well done, Candyslim ! I don't know a lot about JJ, but if you are right, JJ might be among the top 10 (at least 15) HW right now.

[candyslim]

I think so. I make no comparison about ability, but to me he shares a lot of style traits with Big George Physically very imposing. Concussive rather than explosive puncher i.e slow and thudding, rather than sharp and cracking, the opposite of Deontay.

He can be ponderous and deliberate, and like George he has very sound fundamental skills, without doing anyting fancy. He has a tendency to ignore those skills if he doesn't feel the need, witness his crude demolition of Lenroy Thomas.

I think he's top ten he just needs the opportunity to prove it.

[ValMar]

I think so. I make no comparison about ability, but to me he shares a lot of style traits with Big George Physically very imposing. Concussive rather than explosive puncher i.e slow and thudding, rather than sharp and cracking, the opposite of Deontay.

He can be ponderous and deliberate, and like George he has very sound fundamental skills, without doing anyting fancy. He has a tendency to ignore those skills if he doesn't feel the need, witness his crude demolition of Lenroy Thomas.

I think he's top ten he just needs the opportunity to prove it.

He, Hrgović and Dubois might be on the top very soon. I can not wait.

[candyslim]

Hrgovic for sure. Dubois is a good prospect but he's just a baby in heavyweight terms. No need to rush him but he needs careful, sensible, matchmaking giving him opponents he can learn from. He's not in the current crop with Joyce, Hrgovic, Yoka, Dychko etc.

I'd match him with tough and capable journeyman Kamil Sokolowski as a next step. He should win but Sokolowski will make sure DDD knows he's been in a fight.

[candyslim]

I hear they're lining up Kevin Johnson as Danny's next opponent. Opponent is exactly what 'Kingpin' is these days but the old boy has been there, seen it, done it, and knows all the ropes.

This is exactly what I meant about fights he can learn from, and if he scores a strike against the Kingpin, it's more evidence that Dubois is for real.

[KiwiRider]

Ortiz vs Whyte would be one intriguing fight...

This fight isn't going to happen in the short-term. There's no reason for it. Both fighters don't want it and neither do fight fans.

It might be a decent match-up, but it doesn't make any business sense for Ortiz & Whyte, since they can earn more money and take smaller risks by facing easier opponents... and still receive a shot at one of the world titles within the next twelve months.

Not denying your logic EO but when have normal sensible considerations like business sense and risk/reward ratios ever meant a tu'ppeny damn to Dillian Whyte?

Joe Joyce is a genuine top contender

Not according to the WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO, Ring Magazine or BoxRec. So Joyce ain't a 'genuine' top ten contender is he? If he was he'd be in the top ten.

To get a rating you need to (sign with Haymon or) beat a rated or at least respected fighter or two. This is a difficult achievement when rated fighters don't want to face you. Both Chisora and Miller have declined to fight Joyce and that's just those on the record.. His best bet might be to pursue someone with massive bollocks and a relatively underdeveloped self-preservation instinct, Dillian Whyte come on down !

Talking of people who are not short in the testicular department, I wonder if Usyk fancies a re-match once he has retired Mr Bellew. It might appeal to both of them (boxers that is not gonads )

Usyk beat Joyce soundly. I doubt Joyce would want that again, given that Usyk is even better now and Joyce still seems the same

[candyslim]

He may relish the chance to set the record straight (his thinking not necessarily mine) I know Joe doesn't lack faith in his ability, nor should he. You can bet he thinks (aaa) he has improved more than Usyk, (bbb) the ten round distance will be to his advantage, (ccc) he fought the wrong fight and will do much better next time around.

You think Whyte doesn't believe he's got the beating of Joshua?

Remarkable people top-flight pro boxers, with many admirable qualities. Accurate and dispassionate risk assessment isn't necessarily one of them