Is Joe Joyce top ten in ability if not (yet) in achievement?

[ValMar]

I know this is not a realistic scenario, but I would really like to see him facing Gassiev (if he moves up at HW).

[Enlightened-One]

"Abel Sanchez: By End of 2019, Joyce Ready For Wilder, Joshua"

Abel Sanchez, the new head trainer of Olympic silver medal winner Joe Joyce (5-0, 5 KOs), expects his fighter to be ready for the two reigning world heavyweight champions by the end of next year.

Anthony Joshua will defend the IBF, IBO, WBA, WBO titles against mandatory challenger Alexander Povetkin on September 22nd at Wembley in London.

And Deontay Wilder will defend the WBC world title against unbeaten lineal champion Tyson Fury in the fall, likely on a date in November in Las Vegas.

In the last few months, Joyce has called for fights Dereck Chisora, Dillian Whyte and even Luis Ortiz.

Sanchez wants his fighter to be fully ready for everyone by next year.

"We want to improve. everything is a weakness and we will improve the weaknesses. If we only look at strengths then we won't get better. I look at things to improve. We will video-tape him so he sees the improvement, and can replicate the things that we want him to do," Joyce told Sky Sports.

"We're hopeful that by the end of this year he has had a couple of fights. Depending on who he is matched against, people will demand a certain level of fight for him. I hope he has significant fights. By the first quarter of next year [he will face world-class opponents].

"There is no time-frame because it depends how Joe develops. By the end of next year he will be 11-0 or 12-0 and ready to challenge for Joshua's titles, Deontay Wilder's title, or whoever has them at the time."

Sanchez is studying the main players in the weight divisions and he's already etching game plans to defeat them when the time comes.

"Those guys have certain qualities which we must master, and become better than them at. Our advantage is that we look at them now, to prepare for the day when we fight them. Every day and every fight must be a learning experience," Joyce said.

Thoughts?

[candyslim]

I always said Joyce was serious about moving quickly (at least in his pro career, maybe not so much 'around the ring' )

This seems to me to be further evidence of this. The old saying goes: "Make hay while the sun shines". It rather looks to me like this particular ray of sunshine has stopped shining on Mr. Haye.

[Enlightened-One]

The old saying goes: "Make hay while the sun shines". It rather looks to me like this particular ray of sunshine has stopped shining on Mr. Haye.

I don't really understand what you mean by this?

[candyslim]

I am pondering where David Haye fits in to the greater scheme now that Joe has signed to Al Haymon. Now am I making sense?

[Enlightened-One]

I am pondering where David Haye fits in to the greater scheme now that Joe has signed to Al Haymon. Now am I making sense?

David Haye is a promoter. Al Haymon is not – the PBC chief’s role in terms of Joyce’s career is one of being an advisor.

On a promotional level, Joyce is still being handled by the Hayemaker Ringstar pairing of Richard Schaefer and David Haye.

I believe that Sam Jones, Joyce’s manager, will establish some sort of partnership with Al Haymon whenever the Brit competes in the US.

I suspect that Sam Jones will be slightly less influential over the direction Joyce’s career takes – he’ll likely deal with only the day-to-day detailed-level managerial duties. Al Haymon will probably take control over the proverbial "steering wheel".

In terms of David Haye, it theoretically makes it easier for him to arrange bouts between Joe and some of the heavyweights within the PBC roster. The Hayemaker will also find it easier to establish a promotional partnership with the promoters that Al Haymon works with for any bouts involving Joe Joyce.

I believe that Amir Khan has a similar relationship with Al Haymon. So the PBC chief works with Eddie Hearn’s Matchroom whenever ‘King Khan’ engages in bouts on American soil.

I don’t believe that Al Haymon has any involvement in Khan’s bouts staged in the UK, unless Amir is facing a member of the PBC roster. The same sort of relationship is likely to apply to Joe Joyce also.

[candyslim]

I wouldn't argue with you EO on this kind of thing. My interest in / knowledge of, such matters is pretty superficial by comparison.

[funso banjo baby]

cant say until he fights someone at least in c-class but he seems a very lightweight puncher

[KiwiRider]

I think Abel is a good trainer for Joe. Brown Lurch needs more movement and the pro style of sitting down on his punches. For a guy his size, his power could do with some work.
As for Haymon- meh
His heavies don't get all that much action to be fair. A lot of bench warming. Eddie would have been the guy to go to in conjunction with Hayemaker.

[ewenhay]

I am pondering where David Haye fits in to the greater scheme now that Joe has signed to Al Haymon. Now am I making sense?

David Haye is a promoter. Al Haymon is not – the PBC chief’s role in terms of Joyce’s career is one of being an advisor.

On a promotional level, Joyce is still being handled by the Hayemaker Ringstar pairing of Richard Schaefer and David Haye.

I believe that Sam Jones, Joyce’s manager, will establish some sort of partnership with Al Haymon whenever the Brit competes in the US.

I suspect that Sam Jones will be slightly less influential over the direction Joyce’s career takes – he’ll likely deal with only the day-to-day detailed-level managerial duties. Al Haymon will probably take control over the proverbial "steering wheel".

In terms of David Haye, it theoretically makes it easier for him to arrange bouts between Joe and some of the heavyweights within the PBC roster. The Hayemaker will also find it easier to establish a promotional partnership with the promoters that Al Haymon works with for any bouts involving Joe Joyce.

I believe that Amir Khan has a similar relationship with Al Haymon. So the PBC chief works with Eddie Hearn’s Matchroom whenever ‘King Khan’ engages in bouts on American soil.

I don’t believe that Al Haymon has any involvement in Khan’s bouts staged in the UK, unless Amir is facing a member of the PBC roster. The same sort of relationship is likely to apply to Joe Joyce also.

I thought you tried to argue on another thread that Joyce was promoted by Matchroom rather than Hayemaker. Good to see you finally had the humility to admit you were wrong

[Verdi]

For a bloke who can standing back flip and does all that spinny capoeira stuff, why does he seem so sluggish in the ring?

[littlepug]

For a bloke who can standing back flip and does all that spinny capoeira stuff, why does he seem so sluggish in the ring?

I know, dude looks like he is stuck in slow motion, takes him ages to change angles, if he catches you clean it’s probably game over but can’t see him catching the top boys clean.

[Enlightened-One]

I am pondering where David Haye fits in to the greater scheme now that Joe has signed to Al Haymon. Now am I making sense?

David Haye is a promoter. Al Haymon is not – the PBC chief’s role in terms of Joyce’s career is one of being an advisor.

On a promotional level, Joyce is still being handled by the Hayemaker Ringstar pairing of Richard Schaefer and David Haye.

I believe that Sam Jones, Joyce’s manager, will establish some sort of partnership with Al Haymon whenever the Brit competes in the US.

I suspect that Sam Jones will be slightly less influential over the direction Joyce’s career takes – he’ll likely deal with only the day-to-day detailed-level managerial duties. Al Haymon will probably take control over the proverbial "steering wheel".

In terms of David Haye, it theoretically makes it easier for him to arrange bouts between Joe and some of the heavyweights within the PBC roster. The Hayemaker will also find it easier to establish a promotional partnership with the promoters that Al Haymon works with for any bouts involving Joe Joyce.

I believe that Amir Khan has a similar relationship with Al Haymon. So the PBC chief works with Eddie Hearn’s Matchroom whenever ‘King Khan’ engages in bouts on American soil.

I don’t believe that Al Haymon has any involvement in Khan’s bouts staged in the UK, unless Amir is facing a member of the PBC roster. The same sort of relationship is likely to apply to Joe Joyce also.

I thought you tried to argue on another thread that Joyce was promoted by Matchroom rather than Hayemaker. Good to see you finally had the humility to admit you were wrong

I previously claimed that when Joyce appears on Sky Sports, the promotion and TV coverage of the events that he will be participating in will actually be handled by Matchroom.

I kept reiterating the phrase "by proxy", which essentially means that Hayemaker Ringstar will have to allow Matchroom to manage the promotion for events televised by Sky Sports, despite David Haye and Richard Schaefer being Joe Joyce's "official" promoter.

No UK-based fight card can be covered by Sky Sports without Matchroom's involvement... and there is a legal agreement in place to secure this contractual stipulation.

I provided this explanation several times, so please don't suggest otherwise.

I can quote my own posts to prove this.

[sweetviolenturge]

I'd hoped that by this point in his career that Joyce would have had 8 - 10 pro fights by now but obviously there's been some trouble finding opponents willing to fight him plus his recent change in trainers has slowed his momentum a bit. Hopefully, that will change now that he's also going to have the heavies that are associated with the PBC available to him as well.
It's interesting that Filip Hrgovic has actually been able to step up his level of opposition faster than Joyce has. The fact that he's already been able to set a bout with the like of Amir Mansour next is the fast track that I'd hoped for Joyce. But, like I said, things should pick up for Joe beginning with his next fight.
Who would I like to see him mix with next? Ideally, I'd choose an opponent like "Kingpin" Johnson who's a decent trial horse who just took Andy Ruiz the 10 round distance & who could give Joe some quality rounds as well. After which, I'd love to see Joe's people bring in Pianeta so that Joe could immediately improve upon Tyson Fury's performance by knocking the Italian former contender out.

[ewenhay]

David Haye is a promoter. Al Haymon is not – the PBC chief’s role in terms of Joyce’s career is one of being an advisor.

On a promotional level, Joyce is still being handled by the Hayemaker Ringstar pairing of Richard Schaefer and David Haye.

I believe that Sam Jones, Joyce’s manager, will establish some sort of partnership with Al Haymon whenever the Brit competes in the US.

I suspect that Sam Jones will be slightly less influential over the direction Joyce’s career takes – he’ll likely deal with only the day-to-day detailed-level managerial duties. Al Haymon will probably take control over the proverbial "steering wheel".

In terms of David Haye, it theoretically makes it easier for him to arrange bouts between Joe and some of the heavyweights within the PBC roster. The Hayemaker will also find it easier to establish a promotional partnership with the promoters that Al Haymon works with for any bouts involving Joe Joyce.

I believe that Amir Khan has a similar relationship with Al Haymon. So the PBC chief works with Eddie Hearn’s Matchroom whenever ‘King Khan’ engages in bouts on American soil.

I don’t believe that Al Haymon has any involvement in Khan’s bouts staged in the UK, unless Amir is facing a member of the PBC roster. The same sort of relationship is likely to apply to Joe Joyce also.

I thought you tried to argue on another thread that Joyce was promoted by Matchroom rather than Hayemaker. Good to see you finally had the humility to admit you were wrong

I previously claimed that when Joyce appears on Sky Sports, the promotion and TV coverage of the events that he will be participating in will actually be handled by Matchroom.

I kept reiterating the phrase "by proxy", which essentially means that Hayemaker Ringstar will have to allow Matchroom to manage the promotion for events televised by Sky Sports, despite David Haye and Richard Schaefer being Joe Joyce's "official" promoter.

No UK-based fight card can be covered by Sky Sports without Matchroom's involvement... and there is a legal agreement in place to secure this contractual stipulation.

I provided this explanation several times, so please don't suggest otherwise.

I can quote my own posts to prove this.

Deflect and spin.

[Enlightened-One]

I thought you tried to argue on another thread that Joyce was promoted by Matchroom rather than Hayemaker. Good to see you finally had the humility to admit you were wrong

I previously claimed that when Joyce appears on Sky Sports, the promotion and TV coverage of the events that he will be participating in will actually be handled by Matchroom.

I kept reiterating the phrase "by proxy", which essentially means that Hayemaker Ringstar will have to allow Matchroom to manage the promotion for events televised by Sky Sports, despite David Haye and Richard Schaefer being Joe Joyce's "official" promoter.

No UK-based fight card can be covered by Sky Sports without Matchroom's involvement... and there is a legal agreement in place to secure this contractual stipulation.

I provided this explanation several times, so please don't suggest otherwise.

I can quote my own posts to prove this.

Deflect and spin.

I’ve always been consistent with my words. I have repeatedly articulated the same explanation.

I honestly believe that those promoters that work with TV networks have more power and influence over the sport than those that don’t.

Any fighter aligned with a small promoter who wants to appear on certain TV networks will have to appear on fight cards promoted by the likes of:

• HBO = GBP, Main Events and K2
• ESPN = Top Rank and GBP
• BT = Queensberry
• Sky Sports/DAZN = Matchroom

So a fighter like Joe Joyce that wants to compete on UK TV networks like Sky Sports and BT, then he’ll have to compete on fight cards promoted by the likes of Eddie Hearn and Fɍȁnk Wȁɍɍȅn, regardless the fact that Hayemaker Ringstar is his “official” promoter.

[Counter-puncher]

For a bloke who can standing back flip and does all that spinny capoeira stuff, why does he seem so sluggish in the ring?

Great question, he seems freakishly slow given how athletic he looks doing that other stuff

[Verdi]

For a bloke who can standing back flip and does all that spinny capoeira stuff, why does he seem so sluggish in the ring?

Great question, he seems freakishly slow given how athletic he looks doing that other stuff

I know, it doesn't make any sense. He's got incredible ring fitness/stamina, but seems to lack that explosive athletic punching power. I would have thought that capoeira and being able to back flip, combined with being 18+ stone, would take an enormous amount of explosive power, but he just doesn't seem to be able to transfer that power to his hands. He'd be phenomenal if he could. I wonder how he'd fair at kickboxing, as unlike many boxers, most of his power seems to be in the legs and core area.

[ElJefe]

He'll beat some decent fighters on his size and work rate alone. If you're in front of him then you've got to be able to punch hard enough to command his respect or he'll probably just wear you down. His feet look quite slow though (surprising given how athletic he actually is), so I'd expect decent movers to give him trouble. Problem is, there's not many decent movers out there.

[HyacinthusTurnipseed]

He's got the ability to end up being better than some of the guys who are currently towards the bottom of the top 10 or thereabouts (Breazeale, Kownacki, Jennings), but that looks to be his ceiling IMO. I think other prospects, such as Hrgovic, Dubois, and Ajagba, could and should turn out to be better than Joyce though.

[candyslim]

I think of Joyce as reminiscent of George Forman in style. Obviously he can't be mentioned in the same breath in terms of ability and probably never will, but he is very strong, durable. He isn't regarded as having great technique, but does the basics very well, although has a tendency to just throw when he feels he doesn't need to bother with the niceties to get the guy out of there.

He is slow and methodical, has heavy hands and is a slow concussive puncher like George rather than a sharp explosive puncher like Deontay. Obviously I'm not saying he can hit with the same power as George, he'll need to flatten tougher opposition before anyone could make such a claim.

Ali used to call George "The Mummy". I've a feeling he may have said the same about Joe.

[pound per pound]

Joyce is nothing special, but he could well be top ten, considering the currwnt crop of heavyweights.

But that says less about him and more about the lack of depth at heavyweight (outside the top few).

This is how I see it. Joyce is here to fight. Boxing needs guys like him, win or lose.

I could see Joyce working his way to a fight with Joshua in 1-2 years as a keep busy type of fight that will make both men a lot of money.