BoxRec

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑14 Aug 2018, 07:37

clopixolacuphase wrote: ↑14 Aug 2018, 07:14

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑14 Aug 2018, 05:56

Based on what? Losing one fight against the top guy in the division?

Based on the manner of winning the title (opponent's knee buckled and he had to retire) and based on the manner of losing the title (and grinning two knockdown capitulation where he appeared well able to get up.)

I doubt many people have watched much of the rest of his career, myself included, but from what I remember he had a straight up, goofy stuff and threw punches incorrectly. He reminded me a little of Mitch 'Blood' Green, although I have not watched him since the AJ loss.

It's impossible to judge him on his title win IMO. How can you tell by one completed round of boxing?

People mean that as a heavyweight champion he is the worst, not necessarily head to head. He won a vacant title unfairly stripped from a legitimate champion in a fight that lasted three rounds, where his opponent pulled out with an injury. He then lost it by folding like a deck chair in 2 sorry rounds that made Buster Douglas' first defence look heroic.

You could cite Ken Norton as never even having won a title fight, but beating Jimmy Young in an eliminator and losing the title by a point in one of the greatest heavyweight fights of all time to a top 5 heavyweight kind of excludes him from the argument. I really can't think of anyone else who had such a poor championship career.

clopixolacuphase wrote: ↑14 Aug 2018, 07:14

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑14 Aug 2018, 05:56

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑13 Aug 2018, 10:50 Easily the worst heavyweight champion ever. Easily.

Based on what? Losing one fight against the top guy in the division?

Based on the manner of winning the title (opponent's knee buckled and he had to retire) and based on the manner of losing the title (and grinning two knockdown capitulation where he appeared well able to get up.)

I doubt many people have watched much of the rest of his career, myself included, but from what I remember he had a straight up, goofy stuff and threw punches incorrectly. He reminded me a little of Mitch 'Blood' Green, although I have not watched him since the AJ loss.

Correct on every point. Awful form, an absolute technical horror; won on a freak accident; cheerily surrended belt after being hit two punches. Worst champion ever. There's no contest here.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑13 Aug 2018, 10:57

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑13 Aug 2018, 10:50 Easily the worst heavyweight champion ever. Easily.

What about Tucker?? Jokes.

I wouldn't say easily. One off maybe.. It's easy now to had 'worse' champions cus we have 4 orgs.

Frans Botha

Verdi wrote: ↑14 Aug 2018, 14:06

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑13 Aug 2018, 10:57

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑13 Aug 2018, 10:50 Easily the worst heavyweight champion ever. Easily.

What about Tucker?? Jokes.

I wouldn't say easily. One off maybe.. It's easy now to had 'worse' champions cus we have 4 orgs.

Frans Botha

Worthy of discussion! Turned out he was roided when he won the 'title'. Blasted out by Lewis. Did give Moorer an argument though.

Siarhei Liakhovich works for me. He beat a one-eyed me for the title then last to Old Father Time. Sultan Ibragimov deserves a mention too.

Botha's wild performances versus Moorer and Tyson put him head and shoulders above Charles Martin for me. White Buffalo sized balls. He also biffed around Briggs and beat Schulz in Gerryland.

Lyakovich though awful overcame the Ghosts of Knockouts Past in his title win, surviving a big puncher and coming off the canvas to win in a thriller, so again I just cannot put him beneath the gutless Martin.

Terry Dooley wrote: ↑15 Aug 2018, 11:45 Siarhei Liakhovich works for me. He beat a one-eyed me for the title then last to Old Father Time. Sultan Ibragimov deserves a mention too.

Saying Ibragimov is overly harsh. He beat (prime?) Shannon Briggs convincingly to win the title - wouldn't that make Briggs automatically a worse holder than him?

ibragimov actually had some decent skills, but he didnt really have any good raw athletic talents like speed or power and he was a small hw. a bit like a hw kotelinik, right down to the olympic silver medal

but ya, hes among the weaker ones, but hes defo not weakest imo

Glazkov aside (and that doesn’t count) Martin doesn’t have a best win.

He was awful

Yeah martins terrible

Gnome wrote: ↑15 Aug 2018, 15:23

Terry Dooley wrote: ↑15 Aug 2018, 11:45 Siarhei Liakhovich works for me. He beat a one-eyed me for the title then last to Old Father Time. Sultan Ibragimov deserves a mention too.

Saying Ibragimov is overly harsh. He beat (prime?) Shannon Briggs convincingly to win the title - wouldn't that make Briggs automatically a worse holder than him?

Briggs wasn't in his prime by any stretch. Briggs at least had some decent form back in the 1990s to hang on to. Ibragimov's fight with Klitschko almost killed the entire division. When you get to scraping the barrel it all becomes much of a muchness, Martin stands out a little bit more because people will say: "Oh yes, the headcase". Ibragimov had nothing much to boast (that includes Holyfield) about, which is funny as he has the word 'brag' in his name.

Ibragimov at least had some nous and a bit of clout in his fists. Klitschko certainly didn't want to take any chances with him. In a head to head he'd school Martin. Personally, having seen Martin box, I simply cannot pick a single champ in history who I would pick him to beat. Not one. His whole appearance and style is that of a 90s USA Network heavyweight opponent.

Bruno Botha seldon. Heady triple threat and all champ at the same time.

Aren't we ruling out the fact that Martin is still active and could have a Second Coming? If he walks the earth like a god his next title win could be his Jesus moment. To be fair, and it is a stretch, Seldon looked quite good against Tucker.

Yeah jabbed his eye shut

Nothing wrong with Seldon's talent. His chin and heart however...

Putting to one side the fact he’s a crap boxer, he’s also opted for “Prince” because his name is Charles. Nobody in their right mind would go for “Prince” after Prince Charles .

Prince Charles is without doubt the worst of the A list royals. No bugger likes him. He’s boring, looks like a twat and loses a zillion man points for choosing that Camilla creature! Got your pick of virtually anyone when you’re gonna be king...