BoxRec

Harper’s dispute is with the promoter, not the sport. His sporting decision should obviously have sporting consequences, such as his actions resulting in an official defeat on his resume.

However, I won’t be quick to condemn Harper, because I can imagine many journeymen being mistreated and underpaid by promoters.

I suspect there are lots of dodgy shenanigans occuring behind closed doors in relation to our beloved sport. Fight fans just aren’t made aware of most of them.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 18:25

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 18:11

By that same logic, you could say all TKOs could be DQs, since DQs are pretty much never going the distance

But a TKO of course is counted as a KO.

So? Make them both DQs then if it's just about not going the distance.

I don't have an issue with DQ being used, they are different sets of scenarios and usually look totally different. Something like giving Bowe a TKO over Golota would just be weird

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 12:19

Tony1244 wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 18:25

But a TKO of course is counted as a KO.

So? Make them both DQs then if it's just about not going the distance.

I don't have an issue with DQ being used, they are different sets of scenarios and usually look totally different. Something like giving Bowe a TKO over Golota would just be weird

Huh? How could you make Louis-Schmeling 2 or Foreman-Frazier 1 a DQ?

By your logic it's just about fights not going the distance. DQs don't go the distance, therefore make any win that doesn't go the distance a DQ. Are you following your argument? You are doing the exact same thing but just in reverse.

I'd say giving Bowe a knockout win over Golota would be just as ridiculous. The fitting thing is of course to have them as they were, a DQ for that fight and KOs for the ones you mentioned.

I'm a bit more sympathetic to Harper being ruled a TKO, because fighters quitting is often ruled as such. I don't have a problem with a DQ though because he quit through an illegal move.

I don't believe Bowe was cheated out of a KO/TKO, so I am fine with that being a DQ.

Harper should find another line of work, but Chagaev was cheated out of a TKO if I remember the fight correctly.

Maybe some are saying DQ should be a ko/tko, because it ruins 100% KO records.

I know RTD is a stoppage win.

DQ isn't a stoppage win though.

It's fouling and paying the price.


Has there been a time where a boxer was ahead and then got DQ'd?

I would like to know..

EDIT!!

I believe Golota was ahead against Bowe both times.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 13:48 Maybe some are saying DQ should be a ko/tko, because it ruins 100% KO records.

I know RTD is a stoppage win.

DQ isn't a stoppage win though.

It's fouling and paying the price.


Has there been a time where a boxer was ahead and then got DQ'd?

I would like to know..

EDIT!!

I believe Golota was ahead against Bowe both times.

Golota is the quintessential example. I have to give some think time to come up with others. Sharkey was ahead when DQ'd vs herr Max.

Carlos Molina vs Kirkland

Terry Norris vs Santana 2

Humberto Soto vs Lorenzo

oogiebe wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 13:52

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 13:48 Maybe some are saying DQ should be a ko/tko, because it ruins 100% KO records.

I know RTD is a stoppage win.

DQ isn't a stoppage win though.

It's fouling and paying the price.


Has there been a time where a boxer was ahead and then got DQ'd?

I would like to know..

EDIT!!

I believe Golota was ahead against Bowe both times.

Golota is the quintessential example. I have to give some think time to come up with others. Sharkey was ahead when DQ'd vs herr Max.

I believe Sharkey was also ahead of Jack Dempsey when Sharkey turned to complain to the ref about low blows.

Dempsey's response was beautiful: "What was I supposed to do, write him a letter?"

Tony1244 wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 14:10

oogiebe wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 13:52
Golota is the quintessential example. I have to give some think time to come up with others. Sharkey was ahead when DQ'd vs herr Max.

I believe Sharkey was also ahead of Jack Dempsey when Sharkey turned to complain to the ref about low blows.

Dempsey's response was beautiful: "What was I supposed to do, write him a letter?"

Hadn't heard the Dempsey storY! LMFAO!

Tony1244 wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 08:34

gilgamesh wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020, 16:12

By all means. We have plenty of time to think these things over don't we

If Bowe had gotten credit for a stoppage it wouldn't have bothered me as Golota was unable to continue. He was unable to continue because he wasn't following the rules, but he was still unable to continue.

I remember Chagaev was beating the hell out of Rob Calloway, knocked him down at least once, and he didn't get credit for a stoppage because of an accidental headbutt stopped before round 4.

Alright, well we've gone back and forth with scenarios, and now I'm just gonna close with this.

A DQ is a DQ and a Knockout is a Knockout. The results aren't recorded the same because they're not the same.

Can you imagine Humberto Soto being ruled a TKO loser vs Lorenzo

gilgamesh wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 14:40

Tony1244 wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 08:34

If Bowe had gotten credit for a stoppage it wouldn't have bothered me as Golota was unable to continue. He was unable to continue because he wasn't following the rules, but he was still unable to continue.

I remember Chagaev was beating the hell out of Rob Calloway, knocked him down at least once, and he didn't get credit for a stoppage because of an accidental headbutt stopped before round 4.

Alright, well we've gone back and forth with scenarios, and now I'm just gonna close with this.

A DQ is a DQ and a Knockout is a Knockout. The results aren't recorded the same because they're not the same.

Yeah, no such thing a a perfect system. If you're stopped you're stopped, but in the long run who the hell cares?

Tony1244 wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 15:18

gilgamesh wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 14:40

Alright, well we've gone back and forth with scenarios, and now I'm just gonna close with this.

A DQ is a DQ and a Knockout is a Knockout. The results aren't recorded the same because they're not the same.

Yeah, no such thing a a perfect system. If you're stopped you're stopped, but in the long run who the hell cares?

I do. When looking up records, I want to know what the hell happened in a fight. DQ is a far cry from a stoppage.

Lol, Santana stopped Terry Norris twice!

Looking at Lorenzo stopping Humberto Soto

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 15:20 Lol, Santana stopped Terry Norris twice!

..and Montell Griffen stopped RJJ in 9. Ugh!

oogiebe wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 14:12

Tony1244 wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 14:10

I believe Sharkey was also ahead of Jack Dempsey when Sharkey turned to complain to the ref about low blows.

Dempsey's response was beautiful: "What was I supposed to do, write him a letter?"

Hadn't heard the Dempsey storY! LMFAO!

Before their rematch, Dempsey fought Jack Sharkey. When Sharkey complained in the seventh round to the referee that his opponent was hitting low, Dempsey unloaded a haymaker, a left hook to the exposed chin. Fight over.

"""When asked why he threw the punch when Sharkey wasn't looking, Dempsey said, "What was I supposed to do -- write him a letter?"

oogiebe wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 15:19

Tony1244 wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 15:18

Yeah, no such thing a a perfect system. If you're stopped you're stopped, but in the long run who the hell cares?

I do. When looking up records, I want to know what the hell happened in a fight. DQ is a far cry from a stoppage.

As Dieter used to say on SNL this has become tiresome, and I'm trying to "get out," but there are certain cases that could have gone either. Tyson vs Ferguson was at first recorded as a DQ as Jesse was holding a lot. The fight was changed to a TKO. In the amateurs Holmes was DQd for excessive holding against Bobick. Fight was ruled RSC Ref stops contest.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 15:25

oogiebe wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 15:19

I do. When looking up records, I want to know what the hell happened in a fight. DQ is a far cry from a stoppage.

As Dieter used to say on SNL this has become tiresome, and I'm trying to "get out," but there are certain cases that could have gone either. Tyson vs Ferguson was at first recorded as a DQ as Jesse was holding a lot. The fight was changed to a TKO. In the amateurs Holmes was DQd for excessive holding against Bobick. Fight was ruled RSC Ref stops contest.

Holding a lot don't even describe it with Ferguson and Tyson. He was holding Mike so damn tight, the ref practically needed a crowbar to pry 'em apart

I literally never saw a referee have a harder time separating guys from a clinch than that fight. Ferguson was holding on for dear life, after about the 5th time the referee had to pull as hard as he could to try to get them to separate he just looked at Ferguson like "Ya know what? F*ck you" and DQ'd him

The result was overturned because whoever promoted Mike at the time paid for it to be overturned I'd imagine because all 17 of his victories by KO looks better than 1 by DQ.

It was a DQ though.

Boxing has it's corruption as we know. All in all turning a DQ to a TKO isn't that big a case of it, but it's at least a mild case of it.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 15:22

oogiebe wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 14:12

Hadn't heard the Dempsey storY! LMFAO!

Before their rematch, Dempsey fought Jack Sharkey. When Sharkey complained in the seventh round to the referee that his opponent was hitting low, Dempsey unloaded a haymaker, a left hook to the exposed chin. Fight over.

"""When asked why he threw the punch when Sharkey wasn't looking, Dempsey said, "What was I supposed to do -- write him a letter?"

Anytime the opponent takes his eyes off of you for whatever reason. His wife fainted in the front row, a fight broke out in the audience, his trainer hollered at him, he's complaining to the referee...whatever. If his eyes ain't on his opponent, he's left himself open, and he deserves what he gets for his lack of focus.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 15:32

Tony1244 wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 15:22

Before their rematch, Dempsey fought Jack Sharkey. When Sharkey complained in the seventh round to the referee that his opponent was hitting low, Dempsey unloaded a haymaker, a left hook to the exposed chin. Fight over.

"""When asked why he threw the punch when Sharkey wasn't looking, Dempsey said, "What was I supposed to do -- write him a letter?"

Anytime the opponent takes his eyes off of you for whatever reason. His wife fainted in the front row, a fight broke out in the audience, his trainer hollered at him, he's complaining to the referee...whatever. If his eyes ain't on his opponent, he's left himself open, and he deserves what he gets for his lack of focus.

Agree here. Can't believe how many people complained about Mayweather clocking Ortiz. Mayweather can be a jerk and there are plenty of examples to prove that, but that fight wasn't one of them.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 15:34

gilgamesh wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 15:32

Anytime the opponent takes his eyes off of you for whatever reason. His wife fainted in the front row, a fight broke out in the audience, his trainer hollered at him, he's complaining to the referee...whatever. If his eyes ain't on his opponent, he's left himself open, and he deserves what he gets for his lack of focus.

Agree here. Can't believe how many people complained about Mayweather clocking Ortiz. Mayweather can be a jerk and there are plenty of examples to prove that, but that fight wasn't one of them.

Hell Floyd did the same thing to my favorite fighter of all time. Gatti turned to complain to the ref when Floyd kinda pulled down on his head in a clinch, and Floyd dropped him with a left hook.

Much as I love Gatti, I never gave Floyd any grief for doing that. I would've if I were him.

What about punching a guy who is going to touch gloves?

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 16:11 What about punching a guy who is going to touch gloves?

That was the ortiz situation. I didn't take too kindly to it.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑26 Mar 2020, 16:11 What about punching a guy who is going to touch gloves?

9 times out of 10 I wouldn't do it, but if I didn't like the guy or felt like he had the upper hand on me in the matchup. I probably would

Marcos Maidana did that against Amir Khan, and I loved it.

I like mean guys who don't give a f*ck about being good sportsman they just want to win. It's a brutal sport, and sometimes you gotta be a brutal guy in there.